Brewmaster sims not using jab...

[Dylemma]

It's making me so mad, every sim doesn't use jab. 0 jabs dafuq I know that sh** is wrong considering I have a #1 parse in BRF mythic. I'm trying to get rough estimates and the sh** is broken and no idea how to fix it. Why simcraft are you not using jab!? I'm speaking of brewmaster of course, not sure about windwalker. It only uses expel harm and that's not realistic to use it every time to generate chi. No where close to realistic. Is there a way I can turn it to dps mode so it doesn't use tank rankings and incoming damage?

[Totaltotemic]

Is it using the T18 tier bonuses, or is it using an APL optimized for T18 set bonuses? It is actually quite possible to only use Expel Harm to generate chi in 6.2 with those bonuses.

I haven't looked at SimC in quite a while but it's not unusual for it to get updated for the next patch a couple of weeks early.

[Dylemma]

Nah. This is my own sims of my current 700 ilvl BRF gear. Not simming anything 6.2.

[Deleted]

Nah. This is my own sims of my current 700 ilvl BRF gear. Not simming anything 6.2.

The default APL will always prioritize expel over jab if it's available and you're below 95% hp. If you're simming this with multistrike/crit heavy gear with ChiEx it's quite possible that is always the case... Well in any case that's the easy explanation.

The more complicated one is that it's an artefact of how SimC functions when doing solo sims since there's no real "external" healing per se. If you aren't using healing elixirs and are mostly guarding <95% hp then your health will never increase and the boss will always bring you back to this level after you heal yourself with expel harm.
This caveat is mentioned on https://code.google.com/p/simulation...rTanks#Healers

[Dylemma]

The default APL will always prioritize expel over jab if it's available and you're below 95% hp. If you're simming this with multistrike/crit heavy gear with ChiEx it's quite possible that is always the case... Well in any case that's the easy explanation.

The more complicated one is that it's an artefact of how SimC functions when doing solo sims since there's no real "external" healing per se. If you aren't using healing elixirs and are mostly guarding <95% hp then your health will never increase and the boss will always bring you back to this level after you heal yourself with expel harm.
This caveat is mentioned on https://code.google.com/p/simulation...rTanks#Healers

I mean regardless it's still a loss unless you're in the most perfect world very unrealistic world and you're dipping below 35% health right at the perfect times just to expel harm for chi..you gotta have jabs at some point. Idk why sims aren't using it.

Also yes i'm running a multistrike build for dps and this is super unrealistic even from a tank rating perspective because expel harm has a cooldown, not like you can use it every time you need to build chi.

[Deleted]

I mean regardless it's still a loss unless you're in the most perfect world very unrealistic world and you're dipping below 35% health right at the perfect times just to expel harm for chi..you gotta have jabs at some point. Idk why sims aren't using it.

Also yes i'm running a multistrike build for dps and this is super unrealistic even from a tank rating perspective because expel harm has a cooldown, not like you can use it every time you need to build chi.

Looking at the sims the rotation involves cases where the monk is at near-max chi and low energy and it will just continue to tiger palm (ie. pooling energy). The serenity sim doesn't seem to Jab either, ever. I suggest making a separate APL and putting damage conditions on TP vs Jab instead of health on Expel vs Jab.

Granted, I might have missed something and there's actually something terribly wrong with the APL. Nonetheless, It's a good catch and it's probably worth looking into.

[Deleted]

As a bug report this is not really helpful. You should at least state you simc built that you are using. Optimal would also be a decent explanation of what exactly you were doing (settings, changes to rotation/stats).

And despite Hina being quite active on mmo-c it would be best to make a post here: https://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/issues/list

[Deleted]

I can confirm there's something wrong with the monk APL on the following line

actions.st+=/jab,if=chi.max-chi>=1&cooldown.keg_smash.remains>=gcd&cooldown.expel_harm.remains>=gcd&(energy+(energy.regen*(cooldown.keg_smash.remains)))>=80

I spotted a repeated trend of 3-4 consecutive Tiger Palms when the monk was on 80+ energy, with both EH and KS on cooldown while between 1-3 chi. This line just never fires, so I guess it's probably a syntactic oversight or similar issue in the conditional. I'll break the APL down and debug it.

Edit:
Apparently cooldown.expel_harm.remains>=gcd never evaluates to true. Is this a possible side effect of eh_reset_throttle? I filed an issue that you can follow.

[stross01]

You don't really need to use Jab now.

I haven't done the math for 6.2, but it's likely you don't have to use it there either.

It doesn't provide a useful contribution vs just hitting tiger palm/expel/keg smash.

[Dylemma]

You don't really need to use Jab now.

I haven't done the math for 6.2, but it's likely you don't have to use it there either.

It doesn't provide a useful contribution vs just hitting tiger palm/expel/keg smash.

You definitely need to jab. You are missing out on about 30 + chi on a 4 minute fight not jabbing. A huge deal

[Deleted]

You don't really need to use Jab now.

I haven't done the math for 6.2, but it's likely you don't have to use it there either.

It doesn't provide a useful contribution vs just hitting tiger palm/expel/keg smash.

Regardless of whether the current meta/patch completely ignores jab, if there's an issue in the conditions or other internals it should be addressed and fixed.

[stross01]

You definitely need to jab. You are missing out on about 30 + chi on a 4 minute fight not jabbing. A huge deal

If you need that much chi to purify, you're playing the spec wrong.

If you're guarding on CD, you're playing the spec wrong.

Adding 6 more seconds to a shuffle that will never fade isn't helpful.

Breath of Fire isn't great.

What are you using the chi on?

[Dylemma]

If you need that much chi to purify, you're playing the spec wrong.

If you're guarding on CD, you're playing the spec wrong.

Adding 6 more seconds to a shuffle that will never fade isn't helpful.

Breath of Fire isn't great.

What are you using the chi on?

Lul, I have a #1 parse in BRF mythic. I know what i'm talking about. Thank you for your comment. Wasting energy and wasting chi = playing wrong.

Like someone said there is a bug in the simulation.

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The default APL will always prioritize expel over jab if it's available and you're below 95% hp. If you're simming this with multistrike/crit heavy gear with ChiEx it's quite possible that is always the case... Well in any case that's the easy explanation.

The more complicated one is that it's an artefact of how SimC functions when doing solo sims since there's no real "external" healing per se. If you aren't using healing elixirs and are mostly guarding <95% hp then your health will never increase and the boss will always bring you back to this level after you heal yourself with expel harm.
This caveat is mentioned on https://code.google.com/p/simulation...rTanks#Healers

Correct. Expel harm > Jab if you aren't full health. But 15 second cooldown on Expel harm so you need to weave in jabs. Just a bug i'm guessing or the sim is going below 35% hp at the perfect times like I said. Which isn't realistic but may be a bug or just built that way.

[stross01]

Lul, I have a #1 parse in BRF mythic. I know what i'm talking about. Thank you for your comment. Wasting energy and wasting chi = playing wrong.

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow!

That's amazing.

What are you using the extra chi on, though? It's a dps loss and it's not a healing or mitigation gain to jab and blackout kick any more than necessary.

[Totaltotemic]

It's a dps loss and it's not a healing or mitigation gain to jab and blackout kick any more than necessary.

No it's not. You're so unbelievably wrong that I can't possibly fathom how it got into your head that sitting at 100 energy and not using Jab is a good idea.

I've seen quite a few ridiculous things in my time here, but the idea that you should just sit on full energy and mash Tiger Palm because it's a DPS loss to do otherwise is by far the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard.

[Dylemma]

No it's not. You're so unbelievably wrong that I can't possibly fathom how it got into your head that sitting at 100 energy and not using Jab is a good idea.

I've seen quite a few ridiculous things in me time here, but the idea that you should just sit on full energy and mash Tiger Palm because it's a DPS loss to do otherwise is by far the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard.

Lol. He is so lost. He asked what do you need extra chi for. FailFish. Point is why would you waste resources when it's a dps gain and mitigation gain...lmao.

[stross01]

Weird. My logs show three tiger palms being more damage than two jabs and a blackout kick.

You guys use a different math than I do?

It's not a mitigation gain if shuffle is already up. And it's a dps loss to use jab jab blackout kick.

What's the confusion?

Edit: You guys cannot seriously be purifying that often. Conditioning your healers to let you die during spike times is bad form.

[Totaltotemic]

Oh so you're just being a pedantic nuisance. You're talking about the "what if Shuffle will literally never fall off" case that makes stupid things like single target RJW a DPS increase. You're talking about the situation in which you would never need to Guard and can maintain Shuffle through Keg Smash and a few Expel Harms alone. So basically, you're talking about the situation in which you would use Chi Explosion and would be at a huge DPS loss by using Serenity altogether.

Yeah I don't consider situations where you've already made an incredibly poor choice to be real situations. This fantasy of yours where you never use Jab doesn't exist unless you play the spec wrong to begin with.

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Edit: You guys cannot seriously be purifying that often. Conditioning your healers to let you die during spike times is bad form.

How often is "that often"? Do you have any point to make here or do you just say random things?

Show me a log of this mythical world where you never use Jab.

[Dylemma]

Oh so you're just being a pedantic nuisance. You're talking about the "what if Shuffle will literally never fall off" case that makes stupid things like single target RJW a DPS increase. You're talking about the situation in which you would never need to Guard and can maintain Shuffle through Keg Smash and a few Expel Harms alone. So basically, you're talking about the situation in which you would use Chi Explosion and would be at a huge DPS loss by using Serenity altogether.

Yeah I don't consider situations where you've already made an incredibly poor choice to be real situations. This fantasy of yours where you never use Jab doesn't exist unless you play the spec wrong to begin with.

It's a DPS loss and mitigation loss regardless how you play. Those extra chi could be way more blackout kicks, way more guards, way more purifys just to lower damage overall and WAY more chi explosions, which is what I play because I find it challenging and fun. Like I said I have a #1 parse in mythic and if my guild had the same kill times as everyone else I bet i'd have #1 in almost every fight keeping RNG in mind. Jab no matter what is a loss, no idea what world he's living in to never use jab as you're losing out on like I said above, guards etc. It's just a complete loss for no reason besides you not wanting to press it.

[Totaltotemic]

You're just as bad as he is throwing "I have a #1 parse" around as if it means you have any clue what you're talking about. And no, technically Tiger Palm x3 is ~5% more damage than Jab/Jab/BoK, but in a world where you can just waste energy because you don't need Shuffle, Blackout Kick the ability shouldn't exist because it should be Chi Explosion instead. It's a correct but irrelevant distinction (hence being pedantic) because it never comes into play in any realistic situation.