When to Haste as arcane.

[Invrlose]

It actually does, because with SimulationCraft you can do scaling plots and figure out exactly where those haste breakpoints are for your character, alongside the other stats.

On which note though, I haven't figured out how to make the graph more readable? I had to save to HTML and then zoom in and count the lines manually, it was very annoying. :-/

Yeah, and you're wrong because the pets behave weirdly and simcraft hasn't been updated to model that yet. So no, "sim it" is not 100% unfallible answer.

[Recom]

Yeah, and you're wrong because the pets behave weirdly and simcraft hasn't been updated to model that yet. So no, "sim it" is not 100% unfallible answer.

And it won't be. This weird behavior actually makes haste more important, you are not going to shoot for a precise rating, you are going to shoot slightly above that just to be sure.

Anyway, I think the best answer to OP's question is : when you have 2p T18.

[Xires]

Are you sure mastery is that high? I know that's kinda blasphemous, but almost all the weights i'm seeing are Haste>MS>mastery. So for you example Rixers, it would be Haste (1300)>Int>Haste (25%)>MS>Master>haste>crit. Is this what others are seeing on simcraft as well?

I'm seeing Haste/Multi aswell. Mastery drops off big time after 2pT18

[Deleted]

I'm seeing Haste/Multi aswell. Mastery drops off big time after 2pT18

This is not true for my character at least. I'm roughly Mastery>=Haste>Multi>Crit>Vers after reaching 20% haste at 704 ilvl (with 2pc T18). But Im prioritizing Multi due to frost being secondary spec. I'm guessing this is the reasons ppl go haste/multi

[Deleted]

I know you normally dont take examples from top guilds during progression, but when i look at kuznam with ~715 ilvl and 4p/trinket, he still is gemmed and enchanted with full mastery... Any idea why

[Deleted]

I know you normally dont take examples from top guilds during progression, but when i look at kuznam with ~715 ilvl and 4p/trinket, he still is gemmed and enchanted with full mastery... Any idea why

personal preference would be my guess.
in the end no matter how you gear PoF rng is the biggest impact on our dps at this moment

[kirielle]

Yeah, and you're wrong because the pets behave weirdly and simcraft hasn't been updated to model that yet. So no, "sim it" is not 100% unfallible answer.

No, but it's the right place to start. Encouraging people to use SimulationCraft is a good thing, not sure why you are getting upset about it. In some cases you can figure out the answer on your own relatively quickly (sims w/o scaling or plots run pretty fast), and in all cases you at least are better informed on what questions to ask of the community. Mage theorycrafters such as Komma (and Frosted I think?) have put a lot of effort into making SimulationCraft a good tool for us mages to use, that work shouldn't go to waste!

On a side note though I'm fairly certain pet delay is not something that can be modeled in SC since it's just random delay from the server. Although I am kind of curious if /petattack would affect them...

[Frost1129]

On a side note though I'm fairly certain pet delay is not something that can be modeled in SC since it's just random delay from the server. Although I am kind of curious if /petattack would affect them...

It's possible to model something that at least fits to the data we have. I've just been getting distracted and haven't put in the necessary time to go through the data that we collected on the topic thoroughly yet.

[kirielle]

Really? I've been keeping up on Altered Time too and it didn't look like there was a discernible pattern to the pet delays yet.

[Frost1129]

Really? I've been keeping up on Altered Time too and it didn't look like there was a discernible pattern to the pet delays yet.

Well, there isn't, because I haven't finished going through all of the data we collected on it . But we have noticed an extremely broad trend of pet delay being reduced with haste. It kinda seems like a threshold effect though, instead of something that is reduced steadily with increased haste. I really need to stop getting distracted and finish going through the data and see what can be pulled out of it. Komma and I have talked about adding pet delay into SimC if we can figure out something that reasonably well reproduces what we see in logs, even if isn't 100% how it might be occurring in game. Reproducing the general behavior(if we can find some general behavior that is reasonably logical) might be enough to help us get a better understanding of how the delay effects the value of the breakpoint.

[roflwaffle]

simple answer, when you get your 2pc

[mrgreenthump]

Simcraft your character.

Please do be a bit more contructive and at least explain why, when posting "just Simcraft".

[Deleted]

dont have the chance to sim right now.. does anyone know how the stat weights are ~ after the break point? I'm sitting currently on 1291 Hase which should be over the cap and thinking about which weapon enchant I should be using .. haste or mastery

[kirielle]

It really does depend on your character. If you have 2pc I would imagine haste enchant though.

[Frost1129]

If you're going to offspec frost and lance weave, you probably want to run haste so it'll be more universally beneficial. Mastery is abysmal for lance weaving frost.

[Deleted]

This is not true for my character at least. I'm roughly Mastery>=Haste>Multi>Crit>Vers after reaching 20% haste at 704 ilvl (with 2pc T18). But Im prioritizing Multi due to frost being secondary spec. I'm guessing this is the reasons ppl go haste/multi

Do you have the PoF trinket yet? Because that can change things up a bit as well. The disclaimer is usually given that the general answers from sims are for specific gear lineups, trinkets and tier bonuses being a crucial part in changing what to prioritize.

[Zelendria]

If you've already hit around the 1,300 mark without gems/enchants and you're Arc/Frost is it better to go haste or multistrike ? Both stats are roughly the same rank as each other between specs.

[Wilderness]

If you've already hit around the 1,300 mark without gems/enchants and you're Arc/Frost is it better to go haste or multistrike ? Both stats are roughly the same rank as each other between specs.

The way that I personally approach my gearing for 2 specs is: which one am I going to use more throughout the tier, or which one is going to be used on the most difficult boss(es)? Once I make that determination, then that’s what I gear around and base my desired stats on. For T18, I’ll be playing Arcane on more fights, and even some of the ones I’ve used Frost on in Heroic I may be Arcane for Mythic progress. So I’ll be basing my gearing around Arcane, so full-on haste past the 1300 mark. If we really hit a wall on a fight I’m using Frost on and I think that swapping enchants around would be that helpful then I might switch, but that’s rather unlikely.

Its not as great as T17 when Mastery was perfect for Arcane on single-target and great for Fire on cleave/AoE, but Arcane/Frost do have some synergy in their stat selections – Haste/MS are simming as my top two stats as Arcane, and both are work well for Frost too.

[Zelendria]

True about which spec will probably get used most. As good as the cleave of Frost is I don't think my raid would suddenly wipe because I went Arcane to push ST.

[Polarthief]

Why use simcraft by proxy and get inaccurate results instead of just doing it yourself?

It's called "being lazy" and everyone will always take the route that yields the best Effort:Return ratio.

OT: IIRC, the general consensus is to go Haste when you get the 2P pets, and it gets even better when you get the 4P.