Extending the "Monthly Setup" to my first home rig.

[mrgreenthump]

I think it was mentioned somewhere that the unlocked I5 was going to be around 270 Dollards and I7 just tad bit under 400 Dollards, which granted are a bit higher than 4690k and 4790k.. still somewhat decent though. What really is going to be the most crucial is price of the motherboards and DDR4, if they go down so that the new setup is only ~100 Dollards more, it's somewhat acceptable if the power increase is also there.

In the end it comes down to if we get another generation of non-upgrades.. or if we get some actual performance increases.

[Pterodactylus]

Here is what I would do. (Disclaimer: I am by no means an expert. I have built 2 rigs in the last 6 months and have been reading about parts for about the last 10 months. After I built my first rig, I just got hooked on reading about parts and things, so I feel I know more than the average bear, but I am sure there are many on this forum that know more than me.)

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($405.00 @ Canada Computers)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 3 113.8 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler ($79.99 @ NCIX)
Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($174.75 @ Vuugo)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($130.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($127.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($60.75 @ Vuugo)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($399.99 @ NCIX)
Case: NZXT S340 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($83.00 @ Vuugo)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($114.99 @ NCIX)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 OEM (64-bit) ($104.99 @ Canada Computers)
Case Fan: Phanteks PH-F140SP_BK 82.1 CFM 140mm Fan ($23.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Case Fan: Phanteks PH-F140SP_BK 82.1 CFM 140mm Fan ($23.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $1730.41
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-07-07 13:11 EDT-0400

CPU - you need the i7 for what you listed as things you want to do. The extra cores will just let you do more demanding tasks and will easily handle what you throw at it without any delay or issues.

CPU Cooler - you could drop some extra cash on an All-in-one water cooler, but this will be cheaper and easily provide enough cooling for your CPU.

MoBo - Nothing too fancy will all the bells and whistles that the Republic of Gaming line would give, but this is a solid MoBo, with lots of features that will let you slap a few extra upgrades in the future (SLI, or a SSD in the M.2 slot, etc). It has more than enough for what you need, and then some stuff you don't need. ASUS is a solid brand, that makes quality, durable, long-lasting stuff.

RAM - Solid 16 gigs of ram with good speed and lower profile to slip under the big-assed CPU cooler.

SSD/HDD - best price/performance in an SSD you can get and true and tested HDD for extra storage.

GPU - I have this video card, and I got it because it is simply the best 970 out there. It is designed to be silent and in fact, the heat sink is so good, it runs fanless even with I am in low-demand areas in WoW (in my garrison or in the open world) fans kick on in raids, but I can't hear them. Moreover, it has great performance and will thrash anything you throw at it at.

Case - nice, clean, well built, easy to build in, nice places for cable management, just can't say enough nice things about this case. This case may not be the one for you though, because it does not have a place for an optical drive, and I am not sure if you need one or not? I did not touch mine for years in my old rig, so when it came time to build the new one, I was happy to have the cleaner look on the case, rather than an unused optical drive.

PSU - the best there is for the wattage and a 10 year warranty.

Case Fans- these will fill in the two extra spots for fans in the NZXT S340 case, and these fans are DEAD silent. They also have a mtbf (mean time between failure) of over 150,000 hours. That crushes the other case fans in the same price range and only speaks to the quality of the fan.

[squid]

Here is what I would do.

Thanks for the effort you have put into this first of all. I am pretty convinced the i7 is worth it.

I wasn't considering water cooling, but do you think the unit you listed will be a better/equal to the Noctua?

Definitely liking ASUS MoBos, and I suppose more potential is better.

As far as the case goes, I was pretty much considering the huge Corsair Air 540 in the Unicorn build because then I don't have to make compromises with space (like the RAM fit you mentioned). I'd rather deal with a big cube I can work with in the future adding things than save half a square foot of floor space.

[BicycleMafioso]

Thanks for the effort you have put into this first of all. I am pretty convinced the i7 is worth it.

I wasn't considering water cooling, but do you think the unit you listed will be a better/equal to the Noctua?

Definitely liking ASUS MoBos, and I suppose more potential is better.

As far as the case goes, I was pretty much considering the huge Corsair Air 540 the Unicorn build because then I don't have to make compromises with space (like the RAM fit you mentioned). I'd rather deal with a big cube I can work with in the future adding things than save half a square foot of floor space.

Do note that the i7 does not actually have more cores, just that each core can execute two threads.

Worse.

I personally think a more basic motherboard makes more sense, since they've come a long way and performance doesn't differ anymore. IMO, ASUS are just overpriced and this would be okay if their customer support was a breeze to work with. I'd personally suggest saving a bit of money and drop to a GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK if you intend to go with Haswell.

His high profile RAM will likely fit, but it will not be due to the case, it is only to do with the cooler.
Modern normal ATX-sized cases are not too small to work with and sacrifices nothing apart from it sometimes being slightly more difficult for beginners to maneuver in. Smaller ATX-cases are just difficult to maneuver in in general, but is to me worth the space savings.
It's not that cases like the Define S or Define R5 do not have room to work with.
The Carbide Air 540 is okay though.

[Pterodactylus]

Thanks for the effort you have put into this first of all. I am pretty convinced the i7 is worth it.

I wasn't considering water cooling, but do you think the unit you listed will be a better/equal to the Noctua?

Definitely liking ASUS MoBos, and I suppose more potential is better.

As far as the case goes, I was pretty much considering the huge Corsair Air 540 the Unicorn build because then I don't have to make compromises with space (like the RAM fit you mentioned). I'd rather deal with a big cube I can work with in the future adding things than save half a square foot of floor space.

I go for quiet when I look at parts. The CPU cooler I listed is an Air cooler and is quieter, moves more air (better cooling) and cheaper than the Noctua. It also looks better (imo)! And FYI, its the cooler where the RAM fit issues come from, not the MoBo. The ram i suggest is pretty low profile compared to lots of other options.

The case is really a personal choice. The NZXT S340 is a great, clean, sleek case and I like it because it is nice and smooth. The Corsair Air 540 has lots of ridges, little holes, etc that are just places for dust and crap to collect. If you want a bigger case than you can go for the NZXT h440, again has the clean, sleek look, but more space. The case really just comes down to your personal choice, the Corsair is nice, has good cable management options, has some external bays for an optical drive and I am sure will suit you well!

One more thing about the ASUS MoBos are the BIOS, they are just simply the best and easy to work with. I am an ASUS lifetime fanboy!

[squid]

Do note that the i7 does not actually have more cores, just that each core can execute two threads.

Worse.

Do you mean the hyperthreading Intel uses? I don't fully understand CPUs, but I was under the impression that using more threads would actually outperform having more cores in most circumstances anyway, but will my uses actually take advantage of the hyperthreading anyway? I am not sure how to optimize an OS for that or even multicore use, much less able to tell if specific programs are taking advantage of it.

What about the 0.5GHz difference between the two? Are you saying that the i7 is actually worse than the i5?

His high profile RAM will likely fit, but it will not be due to the case, it is only to do with the cooler.

Are we sure that I am not going to have issue with either of these cooling units being to constrictive on the RAM?

[BicycleMafioso]

Do you mean the hyperthreading Intel uses? I don't fully understand CPUs, but I was under the impression that using more threads would actually outperform having more cores in most circumstances anyway, but will my uses actually take advantage of the hyperthreading anyway? I am not sure how to optimize an OS for that or even multicore use, much less able to tell if specific programs are taking advantage of it.

More cores is more beneficial than fewer cores and hyper-threading, assuming the same architecture. Comparing to other architectures (like older Intel or AMD in general), it's not as black/white, but even within those architectures, having more cores would be better.
Yes, your uses will likely benefit strongly from hyper-threading (just not as much as it would from even more cores).

What about the 0.5GHz difference between the two? Are you saying that the i7 is actually worse than the i5?

The i5 and the i7 have the same amount of cores, beyond their clock speed differentials they differ in that the i7 has 2MB more L3 cache and Hyper-threading in addition to being a quad core. It's just that each core can execute two threads simultaneously.

Are we sure that I am not going to have issue with either of these cooling units being to constrictive on the RAM?

I'm going to say that "lower profile" RAM (ie, regular size) is always preferential, since higher heatsinks do little other than aesthetic these days, since they don't need much extra cooling.

I go for quiet when I look at parts. The CPU cooler I listed is an Air cooler and is quieter, moves more air (better cooling) and cheaper than the Noctua. It also looks better (imo)! And FYI, its the cooler where the RAM fit issues come from, not the MoBo. The ram i suggest is pretty low profile compared to lots of other options.

Except that the Noctua cools better than the Be Quiet! one, sure. It is slightly less quiet, at the quiet setting, but the Noctua cools better at its quiet stage than the Be Quiet! does on its loudest setting while being more quiet than the Be Quiet! one.
And it looks worse (imo).

[Pterodactylus]

I personally think a more basic motherboard makes more sense, since they've come a long way and performance doesn't differ anymore. IMO, ASUS are just overpriced and this would be okay if their customer support was a breeze to work with. I'd personally suggest saving a bit of money and drop to a GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK if you intend to go with Haswell..

The board you list is the same price as the ASUS MoBo he is considering and almost identical in the features just as an FYI.

[BicycleMafioso]

The board you list is the same price as the ASUS MoBo he is considering and almost identical in the features just as an FYI.

Not where I was looking.
http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GA-Z9...abyte+z97x-d3h
versus
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Z97--DDR3...rds=z97-a+asus

[Pterodactylus]

Do you mean the hyperthreading Intel uses? I don't fully understand CPUs, but I was under the impression that using more threads would actually outperform having more cores in most circumstances anyway, but will my uses actually take advantage of the hyperthreading anyway? I am not sure how to optimize an OS for that or even multicore use, much less able to tell if specific programs are taking advantage of it.

What about the 0.5GHz difference between the two? Are you saying that the i7 is actually worse than the i5?


Are we sure that I am not going to have issue with either of these cooling units being to constrictive on the RAM?

I'd argue that the i5 and i7 will be indistinguishable - when gaming. That being said, when you are doing your big-assed image file manipulation, you'll be happy to have the i7.

As for the RAM, as TetrisGoat says, lower profile RAM is always better. In the G.Skills line, the Sniper is essentially lower profile and will not be hindered by either of these coolers. If you were to go AiO Water Cooling, then you would have no issues at all, but that is likely just overkill - even if it looks a lot cleaner.

- - - Updated - - -

Not where I was looking.
http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GA-Z9...abyte+z97x-d3h
versus
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Z97--DDR3...rds=z97-a+asus

He says he is Canadian. Your board is 5 bucks cheaper on Amazon.ca, but both prices are the same from http://www.vuugo.com/ and cheaper than what he could get on Amazon.ca

[squid]

I go for quiet when I look at parts. The CPU cooler I listed is an Air cooler and is quieter, moves more air (better cooling) and cheaper than the Noctua. It also looks better (imo)! And FYI, its the cooler where the RAM fit issues come from, not the MoBo. The ram i suggest is pretty low profile compared to lots of other options.

Researching into it, it appears you are right, this fan does move more air with less decibels on average. They are pretty damn close though. I will make sure to pay attention to how the RAM fits with it.
The Noctua Specs
The Be Quiet Specs

The i5 and the i7 have the same amount of cores, beyond their clock speed differentials they differ in that the i7 has 2MB more L3 cache and Hyper-threading in addition to being a quad core. It's just that each core can execute two threads simultaneously.

This still sounds better enough for me.

If the low profile RAM is the norm now, is there something I should look out for when buying RAM to avoid fit issues? I guess we are still only talking about the RAM listed in this thread, none of which I should have issue with, right?

[BicycleMafioso]

Researching into it, it appears you are right, this fan does move more air with less decibels on average. They are pretty damn close though. I will make sure to pay attention to how the RAM fits with it.
The Noctua Specs
The Be Quiet Specs

This still sounds better enough for me.

If the low profile RAM is the norm now, is there something I should look out for when buying RAM to avoid fit issues? I guess we are still only talking about the RAM listed in this thread, none of which I should have issue with, right?

A Noctua NH-U14S is not a bad choice either. I would look at comparative tests.

It is indeed better. I was just trying to explain the differences, you want an i7.

RAM speeds rarely matter these days, so a basic kit like these should be more than enough.
Both the Sniper and Ripjaws are high-profile RAM, but I think the Sniper should fit anyway.

[Pterodactylus]

Except that the Noctua cools better than the Be Quiet! one, sure. It is slightly less quiet, at the quiet setting, but the Noctua cools better at its quiet stage than the Be Quiet! does on its loudest setting while being more quiet than the Be Quiet! one.
And it looks worse (imo).

Fair enough. I was a cheapskate with my Air Cooler and just got the CM 212 Evo! I'd argue that Noctua looks worse, but its all subjective!

[squid]

Thanks for your help everyone,

Now I should also have mentioned I will be running 2/3 displays with this. Will that affect any of these part choices? Any particular displays come to mind for being a great catch other than those listed for the Monthly Setup? At least one nice display for my design work.

[BicycleMafioso]

Thanks for your help everyone,

Now I should also have mentioned I will be running 2/3 displays with this. Will that affect any of these part choices? Any particular displays come to mind for being a great catch other than those listed for the Monthly Setup? At least one nice display for my design work.

I would suggest an R9 290 (which is listed in the Unicorn build. 290 = 390) to allow you to have a nice memory bandwidth and frame buffer.
It would have no problem with that.

[Pterodactylus]

Thanks for your help everyone,

Now I should also have mentioned I will be running 2/3 displays with this. Will that affect any of these part choices? Any particular displays come to mind for being a great catch other than those listed for the Monthly Setup? At least one nice display for my design work.

The R9 290 is a fine choice so is the ASUS Strix 970. I went for quiet as part of my criteria, and the Strix is great for that. I like My Strix 970 and it runs 2 displays - no problem. I'll run Netflix for the wife on one and WoW on the other. I only have 1080 monitors, but the Strix is has a max res for 4k gaming, while the r9 290 caps at 2560 x 1600. The r9 290 has all 4gigs available for vRAM while the strix (and all teh 970s) have 3.5 with another .5 in some "virtual" RAM configuration, so not a true 4 gig card. No problem though, really. The R9 has more memory bandwidth, but a lower clock speed out of the box - so both cards are good, but are both slightly different. For the most part, either will serve you and handle all your stated uses with no issue.

Edit to add, for full disclosure, I am a nvidia fanboy, unless something major happens to shake things up, I'd always chose nvidia over AMD stuff.

[squid]

I would suggest an R9 290 (which is listed in the Unicorn build. 290 = 390) to allow you to have a nice memory bandwidth and frame buffer.

A bit of confusion here, when I look up R9 290 and R9 390 I am getting two different GPUs with two different prices. What do you mean by 290=390?

The R9 290 is a fine choice so is the ASUS Strix 970. I went for quiet as part of my criteria, and the Strix is great for that. I like My Strix 970 and it runs 2 displays - no problem. I'll run Netflix for the wife on one and WoW on the other. I only have 1080 monitors, but the Strix is has a max res for 4k gaming, while the r9 290 caps at 2560 x 1600. The r9 290 has all 4gigs available for vRAM while the strix (and all teh 970s) have 3.5 with another .5 in some "virtual" RAM configuration, so not a true 4 gig card. No problem though, really. The R9 has more memory bandwidth, but a lower clock speed out of the box - so both cards are good, but are both slightly different. For the most part, either will serve you and handle all your stated uses with no issue.

I am definitely keen on 4K, even if I don't plan on using it for gaming now I am expecting it will become a standard in the near future. On the other hand, fudging the vRAM amount with virtual memory gives me pause because I have had trouble with that sort of thing in the past as the computer tries to decide which of my programs gets what when I have a full design suite open for a project.

Again this level of technical detail is higher than I have ever had to deal with before, so I am relying on outside info here completely to choose between these cards.

[Pterodactylus]

On the other hand, fudging the vRAM amount with virtual memory gives me pause because I have had trouble with that sort of thing in the past as the computer tries to decide which of my programs gets what when I have a full design suite open for a project

Virtual memory is not the right term, and I should not have used it earlier. It is just 3.5 gigs are at the specs speeds, and .5 gigs runs at slower than advertised speeds.

Here is an explanation.


- - - Updated - - -

A bit of confusion here, when I look up R9 290 and R9 390 I am getting two different GPUs with two different prices. What do you mean by 290=390?

The 390 is essentially an update to the 290. The 390 has slightly better clock speeds and 8 gigs of vRAM compared to the 4 gigs of vRAM the 390 has, but pretty much everything else is the same. I don't know many instances where someone needs 8 gigs of vRAM, so the 390 seems excessive with that regard.

[squid]

It is just 3.5 gigs are at the specs speeds, and .5 gigs runs at slower than advertised speeds.

Thanks for digging up that video.
So let me make sure I understand, I can see the differences are slight and the explanations are very technical. The R9 has more vRam, so slightly faster framerate potential but a lower cap to resolution? While the 970 can do 4k, but will run into potential problems at that very high end on extreme (or future) games? Is it that simple, I'm just trying to compare the pros and cons of which to go for.

The 390 is essentially an update to the 290. The 390 has slightly better clock speeds and 8 gigs of vRAM compared to the 4 gigs of vRAM the 390 has, but pretty much everything else is the same. I don't know many instances where someone needs 8 gigs of vRAM, so the 390 seems excessive with that regard.

The price difference between the two is about $40, wouldn't you say the increases in specs are worth that?

[Pterodactylus]

Thanks for digging up that video.
So let me make sure I understand, I can see the differences are slight and the explanations are very technical. The R9 has more vRam, so slightly faster framerate potential but a lower cap to resolution? While the 970 can do 4k, but will run into potential problems at that very high end on extreme (or future) games? Is it that simple, I'm just trying to compare the pros and cons of which to go for.

Pretty much, but you can do 4k gaming with the r9 290 as well through the display port (I fed you some misinformation earlier - twice in one thread from me so keep that in mind if you listen to my answers! :P ).

The price difference between the two is about $40, wouldn't you say the increases in specs are worth that?

I'd use that 40 dollars and get the GTX 970.

- - - Updated - - -

What I plan to do with my Rig is get a 2nd 970 in a couple of years - or if a good sale happens sooner. Then I will SLI them and that will help me future proof to some extent.