No New Ops In Fallen Empire

[quras]

just like lfr in WoW SM is not proper raiding, SNIP...

You could have solved the worlds hunger problems and anything after that I wouldn't care to read it.

IT's like you're one side somehow is better than another or one group of gamers should be ignored because "they just don't count." There not the cool kids.

We know SW makes some damn good stories but that mainly hangs on class stories. the one story fits all has been received to a lesser degree but still decent. Most SW gamers want story either way. However, We know SWTOR cannot rely to much on story. It cannot sustain the game.

The flip side to that is, We know even BIG MMo's cannot rely to much on raiding and forgetting other aspects.

You also have raiders (and I'm not talking just progression ones) and PVP. 2/3 of the trifecta portion of SW. There is no reason to not provide new content that isn't 1 to 4 years old and ran into the ground (if you are one to run that kind of content) for those aspects of the game as well. Telling them to go over a year without anything new to that area of play is a bit moronic.

Sure they may stay for the great story but that is easily consumed and gone. Leaving nothing but old OPS and PVP arenas we have done and done some more already.

It has to be the whole package in some manner. If it's like going off-road with jeep with less than 4 tires. Sure it run but there are issues that should be address before you head out. If BW doesn't cast the net wide enough, they miss a lot of fish in the end.

As a filthy casual that has never run a single Operation since the game went live, doesn't really bother me.

and that makes sense and is fine. BUT - would you bitch if new ops and pvp arenas came out too? A bit of something for the larger 3 portions of the game.

[Darth Belichick]

The problem is WoW used to have a good medium bewteen the two. The more casual players had cool zones to do dailies that led to rep that led to real, tangible rewards like solid gear, UNIQUE mounts (not just boar reskins), etc and still put out quality raid content for people that wanted to raid. It feels like they are getting away from that.

A good MMO can strike a balance between the two.

[Svifnymr]

Depends on the era, really. As a non-raider, WoW made it pretty clear I was a second class citizen. Some unique mounts, but gear was always old and required a lot more work.

[Edge-]

A good MMO can strike a balance between the two.

This is my big concern. With no new FP/OP's at launch, and from what I've seen none planned for the upcoming content releases, they're going to be relying very heavily on the story content to keep players around. Something which I'm questionable about given its inability to do so at launch as well as the fact that no other MMO I can think of relies solely on story content in their content updates.

I'm very curious to see how this all plans out, but I'm definitely a bit skeptical. Still planning on subbing up for Shadow of Revan and Fallen Empire when it launches, though. At least for a month to unlock the expansions so I can muck around on my Jug to get her to level cap and maybe level a few alts with the new solo/tactical FP's supplementing story experience (because fuck side-quests).

[Treeba]

Wildstar bet the farm on raids and flopped. WoW has also decided to go all-in on raids in WoD and have had unprecedented sub drops. I'm interested in seeing what happens when an established MMO says "Ok, we're going to stop paying much attention to raids and develop for the non-raiders". Maybe it'll go badly, maybe not. But the MMO's I've had the most fun in (UO and SWG) had no raiding content at all so for me this development direction will probably be a boon.

I don't think it's a bad concept, but I doubt Bioware can make it viable in practice. Their content cycle is slow and the patches tend to be pretty small. Look at Ziost... it was about an hour of story content. How long did it take them to develop that? More importantly how will that translate to chapters in 4.0? Will Ziost constitute an entire chapter? We won't get chapter 10 until 2016 or so we've been told. Would 9 chapters as long as Ziost entertain people for 3+ months? I don't know, but that's the bet BW is making. If the re-playability is high enough it probably will be, but if it feels highly repetitive after 1 play-through it's not going to be viable in the long run.

If they are going with the "meat" of their expansion being story then there needs to be a lot of it and it needs to be released fairly quickly. I don't think BW is capable of a development pace that will work with this approach. I think the approach is sound and viable, just not with these developers.

The problem is WoW used to have a good medium bewteen the two. The more casual players had cool zones to do dailies that led to rep that led to real, tangible rewards like solid gear, UNIQUE mounts (not just boar reskins), etc and still put out quality raid content for people that wanted to raid. It feels like they are getting away from that.

Sort of off-topic, but I think the reason they are getting away from it is their desire to do faster expansions. It feels like the team working on 6.x content is small and they've moved most of their guys to 7.0 already. They are trying to make up for declining subs through more box sales and more service sales (transfers, mounts, pets, etc.). Plus this "whole world is a big timeless isle" idea was really doomed from the beginning.

[xuros]

Having come from WoW I honestly have a hard time feeling bad for raiders getting the short end of the stick. I've spent years being treated as less than dirt for not doing "real MMO content" but was continuously told that I didn't even deserve the tiniest reward for participating in the part of the game I enjoy. Raiders in WoW (and all other raid-centric MMO's I imagine) have had all the attention and effort put into their chosen style of play and it was still never enough. Go to the forum of nearly any MMO that focuses on raids and you'll see thread after thread talking about how everyone other than raiders deserves nothing and even less attention should be paid to anything that's not a raid and how even the smallest sliver of world content is horrible because it "forces" raiders to do anything other than raid.

Wildstar bet the farm on raids and flopped. WoW has also decided to go all-in on raids in WoD and have had unprecedented sub drops. I'm interested in seeing what happens when an established MMO says "Ok, we're going to stop paying much attention to raids and develop for the non-raiders". Maybe it'll go badly, maybe not. But the MMO's I've had the most fun in (UO and SWG) had no raiding content at all so for me this development direction will probably be a boon.

Worst reason ever for why Raiders should get fucked over. So who treated you like dirt for not raiding? WoW pretty much since BC always had a way for casuals to get epics by not raiding. Valor, Justice, Timeless Isle, New Timeless Isle (Tannan). Hell there are ways to boost the power of the gear in the last two options. It was just lower in ilvl due to how much easier it was to get it. No reaosn you should have Mythic level gear like the people you spend 1k's of gold on repairs, food, Healing potions, and dps potions.

Then again I cant see why this would make you feel like dirt! Most raiders that do lfg for the dailys and shit can care less about what you do in those as they pretty much carry the group themselves.

[quras]

This is my big concern. With no new FP/OP's at launch, and from what I've seen none planned for the upcoming content releases, they're going to be relying very heavily on the story content to keep players around. Something which I'm questionable about given its inability to do so at launch as well as the fact that no other MMO I can think of relies solely on story content in their content updates.

I'm very curious to see how this all plans out, but I'm definitely a bit skeptical. Still planning on subbing up for Shadow of Revan and Fallen Empire when it launches, though. At least for a month to unlock the expansions so I can muck around on my Jug to get her to level cap and maybe level a few alts with the new solo/tactical FP's supplementing story experience (because fuck side-quests).

I am of similar thinking.

I have no doubt the story will be good but it seems that after story and until January comes with the next chapter, you will run another alt through the same story that will only hcange slightly due to your choices. Thats a bit different than the story at launch but still not a class story that games wanted.

Other than alts you're to have some kind of rep grind for factions that will also give access to different companions (if gamers are not reading to much into that. You can get other people companions if you want and grind the rep.) Personally this one isn't all that interesting to be unless they make crafting more interesting. I use HK for single target DPS and treek for tanking and healing. The other companion are crafting. I know others play differently but rep grinds are not all that interesting.

And the last thing you will have is running FP's and OPS all over again and a scaled level. I find that the worst part of it all. The rehash of content that ranges from 1 year to 4 years old all so they can get you to do it again.

You're getting a great story quickly consumed and a bunch of grind this and that with a "grind the OPS you did year(s) ago all over again".

I hope they do have something up their sleeve. Story cannot be it's only strong point.

[Zephyr Storm]

No new Ops? Good.

It's not like SWTOR was known for its raids or that a big percentage of its population were hardcore raiders. The game has always been known for its storyline and single player attributes. I haven't raided seriously in SWTOR since Eternity Vault and have no intention of ever raiding seriously in an MMO ever again. It simply takes to much time for little to no reward.

So I think Bioware is going the right direction with this in Fallen Empire. The vast majority of their playerbase is casual anyway, and they are giving us what we've been asking for all along. I can't wait for Fallen Empire!

[Xilurm]

No new Ops? Good.

It's not like SWTOR was known for its raids or that a big percentage of its population were hardcore raiders. The game has always been known for its storyline and single player attributes. I haven't raided seriously in SWTOR since Eternity Vault and have no intention of ever raiding seriously in an MMO ever again. It simply takes to much time for little to no reward.

So I think Bioware is going the right direction with this in Fallen Empire. The vast majority of their playerbase is casual anyway, and they are giving us what we've been asking for all along. I can't wait for Fallen Empire!

But aren't the dungeons MP? And I remember everyone wanting to skip the convos anyway.

[Zephyr Storm]

But aren't the dungeons MP? And I remember everyone wanting to skip the convos anyway.

Flashpoints and Operations are two entirely different beasts. FPs are fine and dandy, even for the casual crowd. Bioware has even started making solo versions of some of them so you can experience they story of them at least once by yourself if all you want out of it is the story. Ops requiring 8-16 people and a time commitment is just not for most of the casual crowd though.

[xuros]

So which besides the Forged alliances FPs have the solo modes now?

[Morbownz]

Flashpoints and Operations are two entirely different beasts. FPs are fine and dandy, even for the casual crowd. Bioware has even started making solo versions of some of them so you can experience they story of them at least once by yourself if all you want out of it is the story. Ops requiring 8-16 people and a time commitment is just not for most of the casual crowd though.

LFR in WoW seems to be showing otherwise.

[quras]

So which besides the Forged alliances FPs have the solo modes now?

Right now it's just forged alliances and I think Blood Hunt and Battle of Rishi. Of course it seems nearly all of them will have a solo option comes Oct 27.

LFR in WoW seems to be showing otherwise.

8 man on JC server says otherwise as well when it comes to SWTOR Rarely a night goes by where a very casual 8 man SM ops can't be found.

16 man not so much so I might agree there.