Why Blizzard Shouldn't Listen to the Fans (or, Vocal Minority)

[melodramocracy]

Being in the position they're in means that they have to listen to the fans of the game. And forums are the only effective feedback they receive.

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It's always interesting to see people blaming the fans for Blizzard's inability to adapt to criticism and moderate their reaction therein.

The shoe fits.

[Jilor]

I think pretending like the vocal minority doesn't have a solid feel of the real thoughts of many players is silly. As you see, my post count here isn't exceptionally high and it is mostly random posts on oddball threads. If you could see my post count on the official forums, I might have like three or four total posts? Yet, I would say I agree with the rumblings of the loudest people a majority of the time. There's only a few opinions that I go against the stream on (like, how I think Wrath and its story telling is overrated - the Lich King constantly acting like some kind of comic book villain biding his time and running off from us before finishing us really diminished the character for me).

But on most things that aren't hotly contest (see: flying)...if there's a pretty solid thought amongst the vocal minority, it's generally how I feel too. I just don't post about it because there's thousands of people already doing that. However, note that I said if there's a "solid thought", so, I don't mean, omg, I need free epics or anything. But things like the perceived lack of content or the overkill on dailies when MoP launched or things I do see as poor game design like all of that. No, Blizzard shouldn't completely cater to the vocal minority, but I think the people they hire should be smart enough to sift through what is a legitimate complaint and thoughts that merit no attention, even if everyone screams from a mountaintop about it.

[Marrilaife]

-Stormwind/Org main cities

People wouldn't mind if it was a brand new city made for the xpac, and not rehashed the same cities we knew since vanilla. Same reason why people whined about cutting Karabor / Bladespire and giving us Ashranville instead, those hubs are uninspired, small, inconvenient to navigate, using copy-paste assets and generally not giving us a proper capital per expansion. People remember Shattrath & Dalaran not only for their lags but also for their connection with the whole expansion thematic and being something special made just for that expansion.

- DIFFICULT Heroic Dungeons with needing to CC trash, know mechanics, and be geared enough to do it.

That was indeed something vocal minority would ask about because during WOTLK we had enough whines about how heroic halls of reflection was too hard, heroic halls of lightning was too hard for freshly dinged characters at the start of expansion, etc. And I'm not really sure who except small group of people enjoyed TBC style of dungeons a.k.a. find me a tank, healer (not druid, they can't rez) and rogue, mage and hunter, otherwise we aren't going. A lot of people played dps classes that were generally having hard times getting into TBC dungeons due to lack of that glorified cc, for example dps warriors, shamans (hex & bind elemental were later additions), druids, and so on. People QQed in TBC about stuff like heroic Arcatraz or Shattered Halls being too hard as well.

- 10/25 Man Same Loot/Same Lockouts (I know there were tuning issues initially)

That was basically a success, a lot of people who couldn't commit to 25man guild because they wanted to play with friends, had lag issues, hated big guild drama etc. got into raiding, shame Blizzard was too lazy to balance the raids properly and nowadays the "flex" technology always errs on the side of big groups (guess why they nerfed stuff like Xul'Horac 10 man, not because it was easier than 30 man for sure).

-Reduced levelling time & flying right off the bat at 80.

And people were happy to fly in Azeroth after lvl 60. Vash'ir that was a no-fly zone for obvious reasons was a massive fluke, everyone levelled in Hyjal except few hadcore fans of underwater expansion. That's why they cut Abyssal Maw raid / dungeon, because Vash'ir was a failure. The outcry about no flying in Draenor to the point they're bringing it back only shows that majority does love flying. WOD levelling felt short and many people say levelling + raiding are the only good things in this expansion. Except some extreme QQers that had issue with some speed levelling hunter "finishing" the game (levelling game) in 5 hours. Most people don't want to level for ages, they want to jump to end-game, be it pvp, raiding, or whatever they enjoy. The massive popularity of heirlooms and XP% elixirs (just see prices on them!) shows people want to level fast. There is just some wierd group of hippies that claim heirlooms ruined everything and bring back vanilla. Nowadays people love to have alts for various reasons (gold farming, switching classes if 1 is nerfed, trying different stuff, etc.) and they don't want to be held back by hours of gameplay to raise a new one. That's why we had even streams about how to fast xp in some cave in frostfire ridge and so on. These guys wouldn't have viewers if people didn't crave knowledge how to skip to endgame as soon as possible.

-Reputations you could do via dailies or tabard dungeon grinding (which gets you gear anyway) with rewards being mounts & epic raid loot.

Tabard reps existed in WOTLK too. Just in Cata the dungeons were so inefficient to run (took too long to clear, especially if you wiped a lot). Problem was some factions didn't have a choice of dailies... Like Ramkahen or Earthen Ring or even Hyjal pre molten front. You had to run the dungeons, and if you hated them, well tough ****. It should never have been either or, either Cata tabards or MOP dailies. It should be both, and a choice. The only dailies were Tol Barad (and those didn't have rep through tabard), Therazane and Wildhammer / Dragonmaw.

-Rated BG's added to PVP

Adding anything is never a problem. PVPers usually QQ not about adding a feature but about 1) making the feature mandatory (see: Trashran), 2) class / spec imbalance, 3) racial imbalance, 4) lack of new bgs / arena maps, and 5) 2v2, because blizz refuses to balance it while many pvpers enjoy it.

And guess what? So many people CRAPPED ALL OVER THIS

People crapped over the fact dungeons were a major PITA (check WOD mythic dungeons - the moment you have enough gear to make them stop being a PITA to you, you no longer need gear from them, catch 22), storyline was majorly disconnected, all random zones around the world each about different stuff, every raid about different stuff, lack of big motiv, too much Thrall, Deathwing being a paper villain (hai I'm a bad dragon I destroy!), too few dungeons especially during levelling (a trend that started with Cata and persists until now, giving like 4 dungeons to levellers and restricting rest to max level), archeology being super boring and giving nearly mandatory stuff at launch (the epic weapons with super low drop chance), healing being horrible (constant oom) and again not much endgame content especially for casuals.

Molten front was the only thing designed purely for casuals, as the gear was already way below raid drops, so raiders didn't feel "forced" to do it. Problem with it was again, gating, it took weeks to unlock a vendor and you couldn't even check their inventories before you unlocked them, so a casual that only plays and doesn't browse wowhead and other gaming websites didn't even feel incentivized to grind it, if you check a rep vendor and see "a-ha this I get at honored, this at exalted" it shows you what you're working towards. Also molten front had another flaw, halfway the expansion people learned if they didn't level in Hyjal they did it wrong (if they picked Vash'ir or dungeons or archeology or battlegrounds w/e), because they need to redo it anyway to access the new content.

MOP was better in that aspect with scenarios, pet battles and so on, they just majorly f-ed it up with gating dailies behind dailies and stuff like if you wanna that enchanting pattern from August Celestials you need to grind Golden Lotus first etc. Pandaria end game had a decent model but people only remember the flaws, because they broke it all, namely gating of dailies, sheer amount of them, them being the only way to rep up at launch (no tabards) and most of all, locking VP gear behind those dailies through rep! VP gear was for people who run raids and dungeons, reps should be completely separate for casuals and people who like dailies, as those groups are not the same.

[mvaliz]

What makes you NOT part of this mythical so-called "vocal minority" OP?

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Its their game not their fan's game.

I remember John Lassiter (former head of Pixar) said when he started writing for Toy Story 2, he had an epiphony when he saw a child run up to his family in the airport and excitedly showed them his Sherif Woody toy. JL said he learned that day that Sherrif Woody, and all the characters in Toy Story, no longer belong to him - he gave them life and words but they no longer belong to him. Sherif woody is now that child's best friend - and that was the mindset he went into when writing Toy Story 2.

Today, he's head of operations at Disney when Pixar merged. There's a reason for this.

[NoiseTank13]

From this post and the OP. No truer fucking words have ever been said. I don't blame Blizzard for all the problems since Wrath. I blame the whiny playerbase. WoD is the lovechild of casuals and they hate it.

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But WoD is pretty much all the casuals raved about in MoP, turned up to 11

yeah those casuals sure whined about the loot in lfr, saying their hardcore guild put a gun to their heads and told them if they didnt run lfr to get the gear they were kicked from the guild

...

[Gheld]

So Blizzard shouldn't listen to other people's opinions because they aren't your opinion? Got it.

[Deleted]

It's always interesting to see people blaming the fans for Blizzard's inability to adapt to criticism and moderate their reaction therein.

This.

Player "Wow these bugs in Slithius are kinda annoying to fight. Maybe give them less armor or something?"

Blizzard - "We have wiped out all insect life in the known universe. Except bees. Bees are rad. There will be a new Bee themed zone and legend of Beedaria expansion. Enjoy your stripey armor sets, guys!"

--------------------------

Player - "Theres kinda no real reason to play together any more."

Blizzard - "Ok, now in order to log in theres a mini game where another random player on your friends will get numbers flashed on the screen and you have 2 minyutes to message them and put them into the code box to find out what they are. In order to open the mail, you'll need to be within 5 feet of a guildy and you'll have to time jumping in synch or your AH gold will explode."

They fucking always do this. Minor complaints lead to complete removal of features. New features are rewarded to the moon and back to get players to use them. Complaints are given a tin ear and completely ignored until they are suddenly completely caved into. It's the blizzard way.

[Deleted]

So Blizzard shouldn't listen to other people's opinions because they aren't your opinion? Got it.

Yep thats exactly what this whole topic is about.

Someone using the confortable generic term "vocal minority" in an attempt to silence diverging and critical opinions about the game.

I'm always amazed at the quantity of gamers who do not understand how forums works and think that it must only be a platform for their OWN opinion, disregarding everyone else.

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And yes it is not the fan's fault, its Blizzard's.

They are the ones who make stupid design choices. There are plenty of people since freaking TBC who have always made constructive criticism and feedback on what could be changed in the game but NOOOOO Blizzard must always go to the extremes and fuck things up badly. It's almost intentional at this point. Or they have become a retarded studio, both are possible.

[Tx20]

Garrisons had so much potential for being the content for casuals, just like Pet Battles was for MoP, but Blizz fucked it up. What I'm afraid though is that they will go to the other extreme again next expansion and stay the hell away from any idea resembling player/guild housing, which will be unfortunate.

I kinda enjoyed the visuals of my garrison (alliance), but the mission table can burn in a fire and the rest also wasn't good for the game imho because it made everything too convenient.

I think it would be kinda neat to have a guild house (only visual stuff, nothing game changing), but I sincerely hope they won't spend too much time on it. I don't want to see garrison missions ever again (I didn't even bother with the shipyard. Eff the legendary if you have to do the shipyard crap for that).

[khalltusk]

That was basically a success, a lot of people who couldn't commit to 25man guild because they wanted to play with friends, had lag issues, hated big guild drama etc. got into raiding, shame Blizzard was too lazy to balance the raids properly and nowadays the "flex" technology always errs on the side of big groups (guess why they nerfed stuff like Xul'Horac 10 man, not because it was easier than 30 man for sure).

A lot of your post is quite good and I can agree with but this I sadly cannot. It was far from a success, while I enjoyed 10man raidings difficulty it effectively fucked over pugs and really casual raiding groups as normal mode was a LOT more difficult than it was in wrath.

MoP fixed that with flex difficulty being in a really happy place.

[Reyzzz]

"If I had asked what people wanted, they would have said faster horses" -Henry Ford.

Most people don't have a vision, and thus shouldn't be listened to.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

I remember John Lassiter (former head of Pixar) said when he started writing for Toy Story 2, he had an epiphony when he saw a child run up to his family in the airport and excitedly showed them his Sherif Woody toy. JL said he learned that day that Sherrif Woody, and all the characters in Toy Story, no longer belong to him - he gave them life and words but they no longer belong to him. Sherif woody is now that child's best friend - and that was the mindset he went into when writing Toy Story 2.

Today, he's head of operations at Disney when Pixar merged. There's a reason for this.

It's why it's selfish to simply create for yourself. You share that creation with others, so they can enjoy it, too.

It's the same attitude musicians have with their groups, they eventually understand they need to tailor for their fans, not just for creative use. Tears for Fears almost bought the farm because Roland spent so much time in the studio creating what he wanted, while neglecting the fans who wanted their Beatles-lite music. It took the band breakup, nasty tit-for-tats, and the birth of his son until Roland released that "daddy's music" wasn't just his to control. Some swallowed pride, and fence mending, and Roland and Curt are back together again, more mature and wiser.

The greatest gift devs can give is NOT being control freaks. Share their passions yes, but also tailor it so the fans can also enjoy it to the fullest.

Got it, flaunt it. More will enjoy it.

[Morthulo]

They have to listen, unless they want to go out of business.

At the end of the day, Blizzard own WoW and they can/will take it in any direction that they wish, players will NEVER change that. What players can do, is help guide Blizzard into making positive changes to currently negative areas of the game.

[Granyala]

Blizzard needs to learn what "MIDDLE GROUND" is.
That's when we can have a better game for everyone.

[fixx]

They have to listen, unless they want to go out of business.

Making changes based on comments alone is the biggest mistake any software developer can make because 90% of the feedback is garbage.

Instead watching what the people do, what they dont do, how they are doing things etc is far more important because that will show the designers what things people use, what they avoid, which features are hard to find or doesn't make any sense and so on.

That is the most important thing any UI design class will teach you.

[DeadmanWalking]

No. WoD is pretty much all the people on the forums claimed casuals raved about. Casuals don't really post/tweet. I doubt most of them are aware of what's being advocated for in their names, even.

Two major problems with wod boil down to Blizz having a hard on for a one year expansion so they axed the mid-endgame content to make it happen. The other was the lazy raiders screaming on the forums that their guild 'forced' them to do dailies for raid worthy rewards. Mind you I am not talking about all raiders but rather lazy raiders, raiders who only want to show up on raid nights, knock over bosses and then go back to playing the games they would rather be playing for the rest of the week. Now there are no activities in the game that give any good rewards outside mounts (at least until Tanaan). Blizzard listened to them and now we have the playerbase wondering why they should do 5 rep grinds just to get a pink or purple hippo mount.

[Deadite]

No. WoD is pretty much all the people on the forums claimed casuals raved about. Casuals don't really post/tweet. I doubt most of them are aware of what's being advocated for in their names, even.

The bigger problem is that the OP seems to think that casual players are the minority.That is hilariously wrong. Like you say they log on and play and if they don't like it they quit. They come and go without remark. This game is what Blizzard made and you can't blame the players.

[Foj]

It's always interesting to see people blaming the fans for Blizzard's inability to adapt to criticism and moderate their reaction therein.

It doesn't seem to me that OP is blaming fans for Blizzard's inability to make sensible use of fan feedback, but perhaps that's what you're saying ....

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Making changes based on comments alone is the biggest mistake any software developer can make because 90% of the feedback is garbage.

Instead watching what the people do, what they dont do, how they are doing things etc is far more important because that will show the designers what things people use, what they avoid, which features are hard to find or doesn't make any sense and so on.

That is the most important thing any UI design class will teach you.

Players don't speak the language. It doesn't mean they can't understand what they want, they just communicate it differently.

IT people are w-a-y over sensitive to feedback. This industry has the most immature people in management, because all that education they feel they know more than others (they value intelligence more than wisdom, because wisdom they can't have without enough experience, which only comes from being around for years).

They don't.

The issues are communication barriers. Blizzard is notorious for that problem. They come out of nowhere and ask, "What do you want?" then do this...

https://plus.google.com/105114600845...ts/NQrmHDf4w6B

Because they don't have the patience to listen to their players. They want things served to them only in their lingo and format.

It don't work that way -- as any non-IT industry out there can tell you.

Your customers will not speak the language you expect, you have to communicate to them on their level (not talking down at them, either). Then communication is truly 2 ways and meaningful.

[Deleted]

"vocal minority" is artificial concept created by blizzard to create a wall between reasonable feedback and their "effort/earnings" ratio

If they listen to feedback (like flying atm) its not because of vocal minority, its because they see huge sub drops in real time. That random game developer said it in last interview, paraphrasing: "No plans after 6.2, if we feel its not enough for community we might bring some more content..."

Hell they dont even care about sub drops anymore, they listen to decrease in revenue these days (thank you ingame shop). If they listened to vocal minority they would have to invite good pvp players/streamers for some serious branstorming from time to time and maybe, just maybe the current PvP would not look like shit....oh wait, these players gave their feedback during beta and nobody cared...and now? Well half of these players stopped playing, lol...