Protection legion Discussion

[Vestig3]

I can do with the never surrender nerf as i was using Indom anyway but the nerf to revenge was not needed i skipped the talent to buff revenge's dmg on beta guess i have to take it now.

[Deleted]

Well, now we have one more reason to run indom instead of NS.

Instead of a flat % nerf too the whole spell they could have added a diminishing return on the number of enemies you hit with it.

[Vestig3]

Warrior revenge dmg is pretty handly in mythic 10+ or higher (and lower ofc)

[Rhyzoh]

Surprised IP was not nerfed even more tbh

Also tanks were doing alot of cleave/aoe, they nerfed heart strike as well

[Saiyoran]

Well, now we have one more reason to run indom instead of NS.

Instead of a flat % nerf too the whole spell they could have added a diminishing return on the number of enemies you hit with it.

How does the max hp increase from Indom factor into RFDT? I want to take the talent but I can't find the blue post where they talked about the most recent formula for rage generation, and if it reduces rage generation because of increased max hp, thats pretty unfortunate.

[Cylunaria]

How does the max hp increase from Indom factor into RFDT? I want to take the talent but I can't find the blue post where they talked about the most recent formula for rage generation, and if it reduces rage generation because of increased max hp, thats pretty unfortunate.

It doesn't.

[Saiyoran]

It doesn't.

Good to hear, thanks.

[Marrilaife]

Well, now we have one more reason to run indom instead of NS.

Was wondering the same, before the nerf it was kinda "pick never surrender it's better in all the cases where you're taking damage". I actually first picked Indomitable out of gut feeling and then checked that everyone kinda recommends never surrender instead. :/ So is indomitable a good choice now?

[Lysozyme]

No, before the nerf it was "never pick never surrender", and that is still true.

[Deleted]

Im glad so many people are using Never Surrender, gave Blizzard a way to "nerf IP" without touching anything relevant to its performance. Keep at it boys.

[Marrilaife]

Im glad so many people are using Never Surrender, gave Blizzard a way to "nerf IP" without touching anything relevant to its performance. Keep at it boys.

So where exactly came that notion "if you're dropping below 75% hp never surrender is better if you're not dipping below 75% hp it's trivial content so it doesn't matter"?

Tbh I just checked current top logs for prot warriors and it's split, in a slight favour of indomitable, except tyrant, where it's never surrender (for obvious reasons).

But places like icy veins were recommending never surrender.

Tbh since supposedly impending victory is the way to go for mythic+ I think it should synergize with indomitable and last stand, does it?

[Lysozyme]

Places like icy veins are wildly inaccurate about most specs

[Deleted]

Im glad so many people are using Never Surrender, gave Blizzard a way to "nerf IP" without touching anything relevant to its performance. Keep at it boys.

ˆThis

So where exactly came that notion "if you're dropping below 75% hp never surrender is better if you're not dipping below 75% hp it's trivial content so it doesn't matter"?

Tbh I just checked current top logs for prot warriors and it's split, in a slight favour of indomitable, except tyrant, where it's never surrender (for obvious reasons).

But places like icy veins were recommending never surrender.

Tbh since supposedly impending victory is the way to go for mythic+ I think it should synergize with indomitable and last stand, does it?

Even before calculating which talent absorbs more or offers the best survival NS encourages a riskier health game.

That notion that you speak about probably comes from the idea that if you never dropped below 75% the IP shield would have been bigger with Indom than with NS, while if dropping regularly below 75% NS would have provided more IP absorb.
The main problem is that 75%HP with NS and 75%HP with indom are two different numbers, so in actual gameplay indom almost always comes out ahead.

Places like icy veins often create guides while stuff is still being discussed and then forget to update what they wrote.

[Insane Buttocks]

Preach did a tanking comparison video for legion and places warriors and paladins at the bottom;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd0fLDnRQCs

Thoughts?

[Vestig3]

Preach did a tanking comparison video for legion and places warriors and paladins at the bottom;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd0fLDnRQCs
Thoughts?

Thank god its preach... hes the last person i would listen to when it comes to tank ranking, and hes been so negative about prot warriors since the alpha... Anyway Sco puts them 4th and Slootbag put warrior 3th so who is right, Do not forget that preach is talking about Dungeons and Sco and Slootbag most about Raiding but in regards of anything that preach said i totaly disagree with him he might not like the gameplay but we are very strong in both raids and dungeons.

[Kueson]

Preach did a tanking comparison video for legion and places warriors and paladins at the bottom;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd0fLDnRQCs

Thoughts?

My thoughts? You couldn't be any more misleading. Yes there at the bottom of his list, but hes ranking tanks by how fun they are to play. Even in the video, he considers prot warrior possibly the strongest tank and says most top tier raiding guilds consider prot warrior still mandatory.

[Marrilaife]

That outdated preach video is gonna probably haunt us 3 patches later, people still quote it despite a lot of balancing gone on since then. But if someone is "le famous youtuber" and his shit pops on the top of the search results, then yes, it's gonna haunt us and overshadow any more informed opinions.

Personally I think Warriors didn't change that much from WOD to legion, but what they changed, was for the better, like replacing barrier with ignore pain and buffing spell reflect to be cd for magic dmg. The nerfs (like removal of enraged regeneration) hit all the tanks across the board.

If someone thinks warrior is bad, I would ask them to say why they think so - and not why random youtuber thinks so.

[Senen]

I hate most of the changes from WoD to Legion (and didn't like most changes from MoP to WoD either) tbh and I'm all on board the "warrior is one of the less fun tank in Legion". The only reasons I'm considering keeping it as my main is because I've been maining warprot since WotLK and that it looks really strong in Legion.

[Hostile]

I liked playing Warr in WoD. But holy shit I love the Legion version. The shitty Shield Barrier is gone, I can finally stack my absorb on top of each other, it has 15 second timer instead of 6, much stronger, fun Vengeance build to raise skill cap (maybe not a lot, but still). Overall Warrior is just amazing now. I don't know what the fuck Preacher is talking about.

[Marok]

Edit: See here.