Arms Legion Discussion

[Saiona]

So wtf is everyone doing tuesday I'm 911 fury with bis leggos but my arms has gloves and trinket. Both have concord

[Deleted]

Stay fury till 4pT20 then see if arms any arms changes happen and act accordingly

[Arbiter]

Stay fury till 4pT20 then see if arms any arms changes happen and act accordingly

Is Arms not ahead without the T204pc?

[Bugg]

Is the icy veins description of Arms still accurate?
High intensity rotation, short burst windows, resources starved without leggos, etc?

[Deleted]

Is Arms not ahead without the T204pc?

Thats what i gathered from ppl playing alot on ptr, could have the wrong impression ofc, but thats i got out of it.

[cszsolt3]

So I tried PTR yesterday, and all I did was CS and MS on cd then whack whirlwind like a moron. Is this what the spec has turned into? I mean arms never was a very good spec to play, but it's getting to the point where I'm getting the feeling they are making it shit to play on purpose.

My enjoyment of the spec has been going into a straight nosedive for the last several years. I'll probably stick to fury unless its heavily underperforming compared to arms.

[Anbokr]

Is Arms not ahead without the T204pc?

Arms doesn't really get crazy until leggo helm + tier20.

Also, as much as people are enjoying proclaiming to the heavens how good arms' damage is right now on the discord, Fury still wins on any sort of AoE. Ideally, we'll end up with Arms being a bit ahead on ST on average, and Fury being better overall at handling AoE. Arms, while much better at handling AoE situations than 7.2, is still really clunky and handicapped because of warbreaker's rigid 1 minute CD.

A spec that is as 1 dimensional as arms should be top3 ST damage.

[Stanislav]

Arms doesn't really get crazy until leggo helm + tier20.

Also, as much as people are enjoying proclaiming to the heavens how good arms' damage is right now on the discord, Fury still wins on any sort of AoE. Ideally, we'll end up with Arms being a bit ahead on ST on average, and Fury being better overall at handling AoE. Arms, while much better at handling AoE situations than 7.2, is still really clunky and handicapped because of warbreaker's rigid 1 minute CD.

A spec that is as 1 dimensional as arms should be top3 ST damage.

odyn's fury is the main aoe for fury and it has a rigid 45sec cd... outside that you got WW spam and rampage cleave.

arms has bladestorm with cd reduction from talants and tier, cleave buffed, trait for cleave buffed, WW buffed, traits buffing WW, MS and execute cleave on 3 targets.

in what world does fury out aoe arms?

if you dont like the 1min cd on warbreaker get the leap leggo that applies CS debuff and shoulders, 30sec cd with 3 charges on warbreaker pretty much.

in m+ it will be insane aoe, you can leap into a pack pop bladestorm/ravager and it will get deleted.

with t20 arms will eat a nerf for sure, if that 6 mortal strikes from bladestorm thing works with sweeping strikes.... we will be hitting everything in a pack of 3-5 mobs for some retarded dmg.


leap > applies CS > ravager > 6 mortal strikes > spam your own spells, all while 100% crit and 60-80% dmg from mastery.

[Anuibus]

odyn's fury is the main aoe for fury and it has a rigid 45sec cd... outside that you got WW spam and rampage cleave.

The big problem isn't that your main aoe ability is on a large cd, its that your main damage buff ability can only be applied on one to a few target(s) at a time unless warbreaker is off cooldown. Without colossus smash, Bladestorm/Ravager are really weak. Enrage doesn't have this limitation.

[Bigbazz]

The big problem isn't that your main aoe ability is on a large cd, its that your main damage buff ability can only be applied on one to a few target(s) at a time unless warbreaker is off cooldown. Without colossus smash, Bladestorm/Ravager are really weak. Enrage doesn't have this limitation.

I get your point here but you're ignoring the existence of Legendaries that make this not the case. The leap legs when timed properly can allow Arms to perform very well on AOE, and with them it still does perform very decently in Mythic + and always has done. If we lived in a world of no Legendaries then sure your point rings really true, but Legendaries do exist and you need to account for them.

Arms was poor in Nighthold especially because even with the leap legs the add waves and phases of many fights just didn't line up well with usage of Battle Cry and Bladestorm, meaning you were always making a big compromise on timing. But in M+ during that same period the same issue wasn't present because you pretty much always had an outlet to maximise the use of your cooldowns while they were available.

Arms in the next patch is of course much much more flexible with Titanic Might and the new changes, and the T20 makes Arms AOE a much more powerful force than it is now and with a lot more flexibility, while also considerably improving the single target performance and consistency. I'm completely ignorant towards TOS raid fights so I can't comment, but a lot of the issue in Nighthold was just Arms being chained down by timing windows, and the fights not catering well to those windows.

[Stanislav]

The big problem isn't that your main aoe ability is on a large cd, its that your main damage buff ability can only be applied on one to a few target(s) at a time unless warbreaker is off cooldown. Without colossus smash, Bladestorm/Ravager are really weak. Enrage doesn't have this limitation.

dont you think thats where we are balanced around? if you could apply CS in aoe to every pack our dmg would be retarded.

fury aoe is so much better because enrage is applies to you instead of target right? its balanced around that so the numbers from each hit as smaller to compensate.

this is the same reason fire mages and WW monks suck in ST because of their amazing aoe, you cant have it all.

[LazyCoding]

On live I run Mythic+ dungeons with Arms instead of Fury these days. The result is totaly fine but you have to care your position because of SS and Cleave (and Ravager if taken, I don't). Fury is safer option in M+ cuz it is easier to kite mobs and chese some affixes etc.. But arms seems to be more fun.

In 7.2.5 , buff to WW and Trauma(and now you can pick trauma cuz it is not on same tier with TM), T20 CD reduction etc will make Arms probably a little bit too good in dungeons.

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if you could apply CS in aoe to every pack our dmg would be retarded.

You can do that with the pants and the dmg is not retarded. I can apply CS to every single add on Skorpyron with pants and shoulder and dmg is still behind fury on Skorpyron.

[Sinnthetic]

My question to you guys is, is it going to be worth switching from Fury to Arms without the legendary helmet and tier 20, basically on patch day next tuesday?

[Stanislav]

On live I run Mythic+ dungeons with Arms instead of Fury these days. The result is totaly fine but you have to care your position because of SS and Cleave (and Ravager if taken, I don't). Fury is safer option in M+ cuz it is easier to kite mobs and chese some affixes etc.. But arms seems to be more fun.

In 7.2.5 , buff to WW and Trauma(and now you can pick trauma cuz it is not on same tier with TM), T20 CD reduction etc will make Arms probably a little bit too good in dungeons.

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You can do that with the pants and the dmg is not retarded. I can apply CS to every single add on Skorpyron with pants and shoulder and dmg is still behind fury on Skorpyron.

thats why arms got buffed, we are talking about 7.2.5. here

[Bigbazz]

Arms getting buffed is an understatement tho, it's going to get nerfed so hard after the patch hits you watch.

[Stanislav]

My question to you guys is, is it going to be worth switching from Fury to Arms without the legendary helmet and tier 20, basically on patch day next tuesday?

if you got to ask probably not, unless you got the same relics and concordance in both specs and ring+w/e is the 2nd bis leggo is.
arms will come out on top tho, the 5% buff will only help overcome some of the DOS nerf but arms is getting so much love this patch that it will most likely end up being overtuned (thats what the ptr numbers are showing)

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Arms getting buffed is an understatement tho, it's going to get nerfed so hard after the patch hits you watch.

this. the way its setup right now its already good, but with t20 (we got some sick set bonuses) and the new 7.2.5 leggo is BIS according to people, arms is getting too much too fast.

usually you dont want to be the best after a patch because thats where all the QQ will be directed by people that got nerfed.

[Saiona]

I remember first week of EN as arms. I remember the second week as well

[Bigbazz]

I remember first week of EN as arms. I remember the second week as well

This situation is probably closer to Hellfire Citadel though (set bonus primary culprit), the new changes combined with the incredible T20 set bonuses combine to make a spec that can talent in many directions to fit many niches, and most of those niche builds also provide very very competitive single target. So you can go many directions on single target dps and do very close numbers (all very strong) while benefitting from the niche strengths those different builds bring in different scenarios.

The actual dps numbers pulled by the spec are extremely strong, and on dummy dps it completely outshines Fury. The execute phase is incredible too, you don't even need T20 in the execute phase. Initially with T19 people are going to be playing Opportunity Strikes, Fervor, Trauma... But with T20 a lot of paths open up and all of them are really capable.

I admit I haven't compared to other classes to see how it all fits together, but my gut feeling when seeing the numbers and experimenting with the gameplay and various builds tells me that Arms is going to be nerfed hard before Mythic opens up in TOS, possibly via the T20 bonuses.

[Niwes]

ok. hands down: considering ALL stuff together, Leggis, ToS Encounter styles, actual PTR numbers, etc. - what spec will be overall better, fury or arms? from a moments point if view considering all differentiated stuff into 1 overall statement?

[Anbokr]

ok. hands down: considering ALL stuff together, Leggis, ToS Encounter styles, actual PTR numbers, etc. - what spec will be overall better, fury or arms? from a moments point if view considering all differentiated stuff into 1 overall statement?

won't know until tuning is over