No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[WowIsDead64]

I can't play 7.0.3 now, but according to feedback Blizzard have made another step towards right direction - they implemented "Phased questing" feature. Not 100% phased, as I asked, but at least they try to reduce amount of players around to prevent bottlenecking, forced competition and socialization. Can anyone tell me, how it's felt? How does this phasing work? Is it location-wide? Or smaller pieces of location are phased? How many players can be around you at any moment?

It's very important for me. Cuz for me all this flying/no flying problem is caused by good/bad outdoor content design.

[SirCowdog]

I'm sure glad you're not a Blizzard developer. I would never play your version of WoW.. ever. Seems all you want is a game that is easy in every aspect including modes of travel.

the word challenge, or obstacles, or difficulty is not part of the pro-flyer mentality i guess.

Jaylock....at least spend some effort if you're going to reply. The concepts you've presented with your reply aren't new, or even interesting.

Tedium does not equate to challenge except in the most extreme interpretations of seeing how much BS a person is willing to deal with. Every day a person is stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on the commute to work can be considered a challenge. It's an obstacle, and it can also be considered difficult. But is it fun?

There is nothing that says flying or other modes of convenient travel are mutually exclusive to challenging or engaging content. All I'm promoting is the idea that WoW CAN(and probably should) use flying instead of attempting to pretend it doesn't exist. This has nothing to do with wanting to avoid challenge or difficulty in any way except the most narrow and biased interpretations.

[Perkunas]

Jaylock....at least spend some effort if you're going to reply. The concepts you've presented with your reply aren't new, or even interesting.

Tedium does not equate to challenge except in the most extreme interpretations of seeing how much BS a person is willing to deal with. Every day a person is stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on the commute to work can be considered a challenge. It's an obstacle, and it can also be considered difficult. But is it fun?

There is nothing that says flying or other modes of convenient travel are mutually exclusive to challenging or engaging content. All I'm promoting is the idea that WoW CAN(and probably should) use flying instead of attempting to pretend it doesn't exist. This has nothing to do with wanting to avoid challenge or difficulty in any way except the most narrow and biased interpretations.

Much lower ceilings in zones would be nice, a grappling hook that can pull cowards out of the sky for me to kill would be great, some super fast Kaliri that dismount people and make them fall to their deaths would also be welcomed.

Things that make the sky as dangerous as the ground to offset how stupid fast it is. You shouldn't have the fastest and most safe method of transport. Risk vs reward is all I want.

[SirCowdog]

Much lower ceilings in zones would be nice, a grappling hook that can pull cowards out of the sky for me to kill would be great, some super fast Kaliri that dismount people and make them fall to their deaths would also be welcomed.

Things that make the sky as dangerous as the ground to offset how stupid fast it is. You shouldn't have the fastest and most safe method of transport. Risk vs reward is all I want.

Those are all ideas that have been thrown around as bandaid measures. What flying(and the entire mount system) really needs is a complete overhaul. Flight should actually perform more like real life flight, and less like videogame no-clip mode with perfect control. I know some people have suggested using the "Joust" style movement from the quest in Hyjal, but that's pretty bad if you ask me. Hovering shouldn't really be possible for extended periods of time. Instant changes of direction on any of the axis should probably be barred too.

I'm not going to sit here and say wow should be a flight simulator, but that doesn't mean Blizzard couldn't come up with something acceptable.

[Connll]

I have to agree. Where is the link?

We will wait patiently I guess.

VERY Patiently.

[WowIsDead64]

Much lower ceilings in zones would be nice, a grappling hook that can pull cowards out of the sky for me to kill would be great, some super fast Kaliri that dismount people and make them fall to their deaths would also be welcomed.

Things that make the sky as dangerous as the ground to offset how stupid fast it is. You shouldn't have the fastest and most safe method of transport. Risk vs reward is all I want.

Looks like there are players, whose only interest in game - is to grief other players. And for some of them small dirty tricks in game, like ganking low-levels, aren't enough - they get real satisfaction, only when game is being completely destroyed for other players.

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Those are all ideas that have been thrown around as bandaid measures. What flying(and the entire mount system) really needs is a complete overhaul. Flight should actually perform more like real life flight, and less like videogame no-clip mode with perfect control. I know some people have suggested using the "Joust" style movement from the quest in Hyjal, but that's pretty bad if you ask me. Hovering shouldn't really be possible for extended periods of time. Instant changes of direction on any of the axis should probably be barred too.

I'm not going to sit here and say wow should be a flight simulator, but that doesn't mean Blizzard couldn't come up with something acceptable.

I guess, Blizzard think, that nerfing flying would upset players even more, than complete removal of flying. But some ideas about making flying more realistic are very interesting. May be Blizzard should limit "power" or even "fuel" and implement altitude <-> speed trade off? I.e. you'll have to choose between climbing and flying fast. Such mechanics present in Firefall. You can press Shift to increase horizontal speed, but you have less vertical trust and burn more fuel in this case. Gliding mechanic would be interesting too.

And, as I've already said, real wing mechanics, like folding wings to gain high vertical speed, would be nice to. This may lead to real "Flying race" mini-games, where you would be able to sky dive on your flying mount, while balancing between vertical speed and mount control, needed to avoid obstacles.

[Perkunas]

Looks like there are players, whose only interest in game - is to grief other players. And for some of them small dirty tricks in game, like ganking low-levels, aren't enough - they get real satisfaction, only when game is being completely destroyed for other players.

Not my only interest, but frankly, I play a game with War in the title and killing the other faction makes me happy. Beyond the point you're probably on a carebear server so you wouldn't have to worry about people like me.

[Lumineus]

some super fast Kaliri that dismount people and make them fall to their deaths would also be welcomed.

Things that make the sky as dangerous as the ground

You have some wildly inaccurate fantasies about ground-level play.

[SirCowdog]

I guess, Blizzard think, that nerfing flying would upset players even more, than complete removal of flying.

WoD showed us that Blizzard already would like to remove flight entirely, but has realized that it's simply not feasible due to the current player base. Removing it entirely would cost them more than adapting their development to account for it. This is why we have Pathfinder, because it allows them to get the practical benefits of no flying(players consuming content more slowly) without actually having to deal with the consequences of complete removal.

But some ideas about making flying more realistic are very interesting. May be Blizzard should limit "power" or even "fuel" and implement altitude <-> speed trade off? I.e. you'll have to choose between climbing and flying fast. Such mechanics present in Firefall. You can press Shift to increase horizontal speed, but you have less vertical trust and burn more fuel in this case. Gliding mechanic would be interesting too.

And, as I've already said, real wing mechanics, like folding wings to gain high vertical speed, would be nice to. This may lead to real "Flying race" mini-games, where you would be able to sky dive on your flying mount, while balancing between vertical speed and mount control, needed to avoid obstacles.

Even something as simple as different speed settings and turning speeds would allow Blizzard to set up time trial races through rings or something similar. There's plenty of groundwork that's already been done in different games. DCUO, for example, which has several different styles of movement powers. GW2 and FFXIV with their glider and flight systems.

All it takes is Blizzard willing to invest the time. They're clearly willing to work on world-altering factors like level scaling, or re-tooling the entire old-world for flying like cataclysm. They're clearly willing to fill the world with inane jump puzzles and such. What's the real, practical difference between a jump puzzle and a glider puzzle like we saw in parts of Nagrand?

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Not my only interest, but frankly, I play a game with War in the title and killing the other faction makes me happy. Beyond the point you're probably on a carebear server so you wouldn't have to worry about people like me.

WoW hasn't been a well-structured game for open world PVP for a loooooooooong time now. It's a game that's HEAVILY centered around PVE, with pvp tacked on as an afterthought. If you haven't realized this by now, the problem is with you, not the game.

[Grythletubs]

Flying being removed feels (and felt) like the game was being downgraded. One of the main appeals during TBC and WotLK was flying, not sure why they'd suddenly decided it's "bad". I don't mind leveling up on the ground, but having flying at max level gave us something to look forward to.
It's pretty sad that WoW was more advanced 8 years ago than it is now.
Why not just keep it where flying is unlocked at max level? (or 3 levels before like wotlk had) No one directly asked Blizzard to remove flying during MoP lol.

[Drekmar]

Flying being removed feels (and felt) like the game was being downgraded. One of the main appeals during TBC and WotLK was flying, not sure why they'd suddenly decided it's "bad". I don't mind leveling up on the ground, but having flying at max level gave us something to look forward to.
It's pretty sad that WoW was more advanced 8 years ago than it is now.
Why not just keep it where flying is unlocked at max level? (or 3 levels before like wotlk had) No one directly asked Blizzard to remove flying during MoP lol.

Flying isnt removed. You retain every flying you have gained.

[WowIsDead64]

WoD showed us that Blizzard already would like to remove flight entirely, but has realized that it's simply not feasible due to the current player base. Removing it entirely would cost them more than adapting their development to account for it. This is why we have Pathfinder, because it allows them to get the practical benefits of no flying(players consuming content more slowly) without actually having to deal with the consequences of complete removal

I actually think, they bluffed, when they said, that they wanted to completely remove flying. They wanted to stick to their initial plan, but messed up development of WOD and tried to shift players attention from the fact, that there actually were no 6.1 patch, to "more important" problem.

[SirCowdog]

Flying isnt removed. You retain every flying you have gained.

The scope of the discussion is flying in current content. Being able to fly in old, outdated, irrelevant content isn't a factor in the discussion. Being able to fly in content that's actually meaningful to character progression is what this is about.

I actually think, they bluffed, when they said, that they wanted to completely remove flying. They wanted to stick to their initial plan, but messed up development of WOD and tried to shift players attention from the fact, that there actually were no 6.1 patch, to "more important" problem.

I don't think we'll ever know what happened with WoD development. Whether it was all part of some master plan, or simple incompetence. At this point it doesn't really matter in the face of Legion launching next month, except in regards to what Blizzard has planned for "midway through the expansion", whatever that means. I'm still reserving judgement until we see how it turns out, although I suspect that it will be nothing more than another grind to slow players down and prolong the content.

[Drekmar]

The scope of the discussion is flying in current content. Being able to fly in old, outdated, irrelevant content isn't a factor in the discussion. Being able to fly in content that's actually meaningful to character progression is what this is about.

Something that was never added isnt removed. So you cant miss flying when it wasnt even there.

[Maneo]

Not my only interest, but frankly, I play a game with War in the title and killing the other faction makes me happy. Beyond the point you're probably on a carebear server so you wouldn't have to worry about people like me.

FYI most the playerbase is on the "carebear" servers as you say. With the remaining being on PVP servers so horribly balanced they may as well be PVE servers.

Face it Nobody cares about WPVP not even Blizzard. If ya are playing this game for WPVP you are playing the wrong game.. hell PVP was added to WoW as a after thought.

I would bet real money that Pet Battles and probably even Archeology see more willing player participation then WPVP.

So altering how flying works for the sake of WPVP .. well is kinda pointless..

Wait wait I know lets just remove flight from PVP servers, hmmm problem there is then there would be a mass exodus off em .. <shrug>

Something that was never added isnt removed. So you cant miss flying when it wasnt even there.

Well the forums, the interviews, the videos etc etc etc all say otherwise cause guess what it was missed in WoD. A month into Legion it will be missed there to and the and MMO will be smart enough to give it a designated thread, and Blizzard will be playing wack a mole to keep on every flight thread that pops up.

Hell if it wasn't missed why in the hell did Blizzard do a about face and bring it back so quickly?

Let me give you a example. You have always had a car, then you move to a new area and no longer have a car. You are telling me that you shouldn't miss having a car cause you never had a car in that area before? Please tell me you realize how stupid saying "you never had it so you can't miss it" actually sounds.

All removing flight does is add tedium and annoyance.. aka poor game design. Once the hype of actually having new content wears off it will it will become very clear.

If removing flight had benefited the player this conversation would be very different. However as WoD proved it didn't benefit the player, the so the question we should all be asking ourselves is who did it benefit?

[SirCowdog]

Something that was never added isnt removed. So you cant miss flying when it wasnt even there.

This is the kind of disingenuous argument that causes me to have no respect for people advocating no-flying.

[Deleted]

I have to agree. Where is the link?

We will wait patiently I guess.

I cant be arsed to find every time some sad act has bumped this thread when its fell off the front page. Look yourself.

Take my word for it...or are you actually suggesting this thread has never dropped off the front page?

[Perkunas]

FYI most the playerbase is on the "carebear" servers as you say. With the remaining being on PVP servers so horribly balanced they may as well be PVE servers.

Face it Nobody cares about WPVP not even Blizzard. If ya are playing this game for WPVP you are playing the wrong game.. hell PVP was added to WoW as a after thought.

I would bet real money that Pet Battles and probably even Archeology see more willing player participation then WPVP.

So altering how flying works for the sake of WPVP .. well is kinda pointless..

Wait wait I know lets just remove flight from PVP servers, hmmm problem there is then there would be a mass exodus off em .. <shrug>

Yeah, there's a majority of players on PVE realms. I wont argue this. For some reason though of the top 50 guilds 3 of them are on PVE servers. The majority of better players are on PVP realms because PVP can make you better at PVE. Now you might say "Oh they are so one-sided" and they are the server BUT because of crossrealm an Alliance player like myself on Sargeras is linked with servers like Illidan which is horde dominant and we see tons of opposing faction members in the world. I leveled multiple toons this past expansion and had countless world encounters. I got ganked here and there but that's part of the excitement.

Most of the things I want wouldn't bother the carebears anyway as it'd be more for PVP realms. The only things that might piss you off would be the speed reduction that flying desperately needs in order to balance it with ground travel or the NPC's in the sky that would dismount you and patrol all the zones.

[PragmaticGamer]

Not my only interest, but frankly, I play a game with War in the title and killing the other faction makes me happy. Beyond the point you're probably on a carebear server so you wouldn't have to worry about people like me.

To be fair, then, if there's war, there must be a mechanic to allow you to persecute conscientious objectors.

If there are people in your own faction who aren't enthusiastic enough about killing the hated enemy, then you must be free to attack your own side.

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This is the kind of disingenuous argument that causes me to have no respect for people advocating no-flying.

But of course, if PvP or raiding were severely nerfed, they wouldn't appreciate having the same argument used against them.

[Perkunas]

To be fair, then, if there's war, there must be a mechanic to allow you to persecute conscientious objectors.

If there are people in your own faction who aren't enthusiastic enough about killing the hated enemy, then you must be free to attack your own side.

I loved timeless isle. I would set my Blingtron up on the cliff then go into "Coin mode" and knock everybody off with explosive traps and powershots. Some of the best times I've had in this game post-Ulduar were on that island. Don't even get me started on how much I loved the rope bridges and freezing trap combos. <3

I'd advocate for a once a year "purge week" where we can kill anybody anywhere but the masses would likely drown us in a sea of tears. I'd also like for this to expand into PVE realms so I could go and roll through Moonguard and murder those weirdos.