No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Okacz]

Yea, but isn't it going to added on in a later patch? The promise wasn't at max level right. It's going to be the same thing as warlords, the exception is being able to work towards the achievement earlier I think.

So, barely different than Warlords, since in WoD most players have already completed parts of the meta when it became available. The big difference is that there now is a carrot on a stick in form of achievement, and Blizzard shall give us a carrot whenever they damn please. Or not at all, I almost expect a "We think that no flying in Legion has really helped the overall feel of the game and we decide not to reintroduce it after all" post coming in the middle of the expansion.

If somebody tells you that he will do something for you "at a later date", you should be carefull believing him.

[Mafic]

So, barely different than Warlords, since in WoD most players have already completed parts of the meta when it became available. The big difference is that there now is a carrot on a stick in form of achievement, and Blizzard shall give us a carrot whenever they damn please. Or not at all, I almost expect a "We think that no flying in Legion has really helped the overall feel of the game and we decide not to reintroduce it after all" post coming in the middle of the expansion.

If somebody tells you that he will do something for you "at a later date", you should be carefull believing him.

Yup. As customers we do not and should not tolerate such abuse.

A car salesman tried selling me a car without an AC unit and said they will add it in later if I buy the car. I simply walked off the lot and went to a dealership across the street and told the other car sales personnel of what the other dealership was trying to do. They said it was old school aka shady car salesmanship to try that and they were laughing hard about that for a solid 2 minutes.

[WowIsDead64]

Blizzard: Please be constructive. We are happy to listen to the issues you have and to the reasons as to why the changes affect how you enjoy the game.

Do you know, what "constructive feedback" means? This means, that decision have already been made and there is no way back - only some minor tuning is possible. I.e. Blizzard already collected some feedback in a past, decided to make some changes according to this feedback and already invested some resources into making this change - for example already designed content around it. And there is only one single problem - they've done it without discussing this change with players. Why it's so big problem? Because majority of players doesn't treat demands of other players seriously enough to constantly monitor forums and post their counter-arguments in every single thread, until this demands all of a sudden turn into real changes with real consequences. Another problem - MMO development is extremely inert, i.e. it may take months to fix flawed design, so developers have to literally force players to play the game as is and convince them, that they actually like it, as it happened with MOP dailies for example. So, at the point, when change is being announced - only minor tuning is possible, not complete change of direction of development. That's why they don't want to even hear "I don't like this change - revert it" kind of feedback at this point. That's, what they call "constructive feedback".

For example: I had been seeing "remove flying" threads from time to time, but never treated them seriously (actually this threads were treated as trolling) and never posted anything there, cuz, I guessed, that it was obvious, that majority of players would be against this change. Now I post my "constructive feedback", but it simply being ignored, cuz it's to late to revert current outdoor content design. Another great example: situation with 5ppls and raids back in Cata, when Hardcores didn't treat demands to nerf content seriously enough and were simply trolling Casuals (L2P Noobs, etc), but Blizzard actually LISTENED to Casual players after starting to lose 1 player every 15 seconds. And Hardcores were shocked by this fact so much, that they became extremely paranoid about any Casuals' threads, that demanded any changes. That's how special caste of "Anti-Casual" forum warriors, who try to dump any "Casual" negative feedback, was born.

Another example: master loot, being guild only since Legion. Yeah, many players, including myself, have been asking to remove it from PUG raids, as primary source of griefing. And now decision to remove it have already been made and there is no way back. But if you're legitimate ML-user, not Ninja-looter - you should be upset about this change. So, what is "constructive feedback" in this case? You might ask for less radical but more compromise solution - for example to allow players to enable ML, if all players in raid agree to do it (every player would be able to check loot option, they would want to use). Also keeping group loot as available option and allowing players to trade PL items, that kills all the idea of PL? Bad decisions. Since Blizzard can finally determine, whether some item is upgrade for you, it would be much better, if they'd finally implement full-fledged automatic MS>OS system, keep PL personal only and allow loot rule changes, only if all players agree with this change.

Conclusion: I provide constructive feedback. Very constructive. And what? It's being ignored, cuz decision have already been made and there is no way back. Also, I shouldn't need to explain any reasons behind my preferences and interests. I'm not psychologist - I can't properly analyze my and other players' preferences, interests, traits of character and motivations in order to form a correct from the scientific point of view constructive feedback. It's actually discrimination to ask me to do it. "Constructive feedback" or GTFO - is clear discrimination, cuz only players, who can speak fluently, are allowed to provide feedback - and they're usually vocal minority of "forum warriors". And this fact causes content echo chamber effect, Blizzard can't get rid of since Cata. It's up to Blizzard to do the whole analysis. I'm paying customer - I just say "Yes!" or "No!" and I'm always right. It's Blizzard, who have to find solution, that would make me happy. As simple, as that.

[Kazgrel]

Oh please. When they learned in 6.2 that they lost little to no money over flying contrary to what the pro fliers were claiming, they stuck with their guns.

By the time 6.2 hit and flying was enabled, the game had already lost half it's subs. So there weren't near as many people left to actually leave.

Oh, and no, lack of flight wasn't the only reason all those folks left. Lack of flight is just the cherry on top of the pile of shit known as WoD.

[Dormie]

Flying isn't fun. It just isn't. It's just clunky xyz movement that lets you skip the game. You want flying, make it balanced and actually feel like flying. Also it's funny how pro-fliers won't even accept that flying is OP and should have more of a balance to it.

[rda]

Flying isn't fun. It just isn't. It's just clunky xyz movement that lets you skip the game.

Thanks for your input.

[SirCowdog]

Oh please. When they learned in 6.2 that they lost little to no money over flying contrary to what the pro fliers were claiming, they stuck with their guns.

More like they realized that whoever was left after the shennanigans and poor quality of WoD wasn't ever going to leave for any reason, so they might as well keep pushing the limits of anything they could think of.

[Deleted]

Oh please. When they learned in 6.2 that they lost little to no money over flying contrary to what the pro fliers were claiming, they stuck with their guns.

Are you really that "simple minded" that you think for a good company to just "not lose" money is actually a good thing. It is only good for a company that is almost at the end, broke or financially dead. For a good, successful company "just not losing money" is not enough nor something you should aim for. It is not even an option. It's either "make more money every quarter" but nothing below that.

There are a lot of stupid people on the internet taht say really dumb things like "the yneed only X amount of subs to survive" or "they don't lose (much) money, so it's ok". Don't listen to those guys, they are either really stupid, or just don't have a tiny single clue about how businesses work today. The Moment your income gets stagnant you stop being an successful company.

In reality there is "a little" more to it, but that is it basically.

[Connll]

Don't listen to those guys, they are either really stupid, or just don't have a tiny single clue about how businesses work today.

You forgot the most likely option: They´re simply aiming for a reaction. Any reaction.

[Elim Garak]

Can anyone imagine Blizzard going: "We've just lost half the subscribers, but it's fine we are still making money"

[Deleted]

You forgot the most likely option: They´re simply aiming for a reaction. Any reaction.

That's odd when you consider that I've seen pro flyers bump this thread on numerous occasions with meaningless drivel when its dropped of the main page. So I guess they are doing you lot a favour.

[SirCowdog]

Can anyone imagine Blizzard going: "We've just lost half the subscribers, but it's fine we are still making money"

Actually, yes. Maybe not in those exact words, but if someone tells you your investment used a strange and unconventional technique to increase your profits, and it worked, you'd probably tell them to keep doing it.

[Connll]

That's odd when you consider that I've seen pro flyers bump this thread on numerous occasions with meaningless drivel when its dropped of the main page. So I guess they are doing you lot a favour.

Thank you for proving my hypothesis.

[Elim Garak]

Actually, yes. Maybe not in those exact words, but if someone tells you your investment used a strange and unconventional technique to increase your profits, and it worked, you'd probably tell them to keep doing it.

Only their wow revenue didn't increase, quite the opposite.

[SirCowdog]

Only their wow revenue didn't increase, quite the opposite.

I haven't looked at the financial reports, but I do know that they made a killing off box sales and token sales in WoD. There's more to WoW's business model than just monthly subs.

I don't doubt they'd like subs to be higher, but I also don't think it's the only arrow in their quiver.

[Deleted]

I haven't looked at the financial reports, but I do know that they made a killing off box sales and token sales in WoD. There's more to WoW's business model than just monthly subs.

I don't doubt they'd like subs to be higher, but I also don't think it's the only arrow in their quiver.

Oh the exaggerations..... "made a killing...." well to you and me the money they made of box sales maybe "a killing" but for Blizzard- and industry standards its more like "well we made some money. What went wrong? It SHOULD have been much more".

People tend to compare companies income to their own life and think it is much. An example: 175 mio. Dollar on the bank would be veeeeeeery much for you and me, that would be "a killing". But to a company like Capcom it means "we are almost broke".

Back to Blizzards case and WoD: IF WoD would have been actually good (more content, patches, no "no flight"-debacle) the box sales would have been more, token sales have been more and the overall income would have been more. There is NO good part on losing half of your community in less than half a year. They are making still money, that is correct. But far less than they could and far far far far away from "a killing lot of money". If you look up the financial report you'll see that WoW isn't the money maker of Blizz that it used to bee. Blizzard is making more money with their other (even free to play) products.

That is why "no flight ever again" and cutting your community in half is a bad thing. The fact that it was only half of the community and that they made money is just "a lucky circumstance". WoW is not dead and won't die any time soon, but it could be much better (talking from a business standpoint here, not personal preferences).

[WowIsDead64]

I don't know, what Blizzard are thinking about - they're killing entire playstyles. For example: constant pruning kills game for so called "Scientists", i.e. players, who prefer to have deep game mechanics and are satisfied via understanding this mechanics and digging into them. Also constant attempts to turn Wow into MOBA, i.e. game, that is about pure gameplay, kill this game for "RPers", who want to have some immersion and fantasy features in it, that are waste of resources from gameplay POV (like buffs for example). What I've noticed - is that Blizzard are still trying to cater to Asian market, cuz it's very large market, i.e. to turn Wow into "Korean MMO". Why? MOP is entirely Asian-themed xpack. They implemented pet battles back in MOP. And in WOD they implemented follower system, that will evolve in Legion. Do you know, that features, like leveling pets, followers, etc. - are most popular features in Asia, cuz Asian players have some kind of problems with social interaction due to specific ways of brining up their children, so they need to replace real social interaction with virtual one? But, as you understand, US/EU players don't play "Korean MMOs" for reason - because such games don't suit our mentality. That's why Wow becomes worse and worse for US/EU players with every subsequent xpack.

[SirCowdog]

Oh the exaggerations..... "made a killing...." .

I was speaking, of course, in relative terms. I have no particular love for Blizzard's current business model, but they DID successfully execute a massive media campaign to sell copies of WoD. Active accounts had a massive spike in the first couple months of it. They sold 3.3 million copies of the game in the first 24 hours of its release. That's at $50 instead of 40, not counting whatever suckers they managed to fool into going for the "collector's edition". ~165 million, not counting future box sales, store mounts, character xfers, race changes, faction swaps, or gold tokens.

I'm not discounting revenue from subscriptions. Even if subs have dropped as low as 3 million, that's still 45 million per month. Nothing to sneeze at.

I guess all I'm really saying is that while subs can be a powerful source of revenue, it's not the only source. I completely agree with you that better use of flying could do a lot to boost subscriptions. I think it would make for an overall more engaging game, where players actually feel powerful. But I can also see the business side of things too. And while I hate that Blizzard is taking the road of profits over quality, I can't deny it's probably working for them. Otherwise, why would they be doing it?

[FelPlague]

heres why i dont like flying being allowed right off the bat
imagine how fun mario would be if you could just fly over everything right from the start, then land at the end of the level...

[Celestraza]

I personally prefer the WoD system.

First do the content without flying and work on the achievement to get flying (also on alts) once you've seen the content.
I mean what point is there even to treasure hunts and such if you can just Fly there....