New Storm, Earth, and Fire in LEGION

[Honak]

and that's if they make it so the clones don't reduce your main target damage.

I can see that being a reasonable fix. Obviously we don't know all the information as of yet, but if it works how we're all expecting it to work it definitely needs something like that. Perhaps making the clones do less damage but our damage isn't nerfed so when the clone chooses to run across the room to attack a worthless mob we don't lose dps.

Another thing I'd like to see with this setup would be treating the clones like pets and giving us bars. Still have it how they plan to change it so the average player can hit the button and forget about it, but for the top tier players still give us the ability to choose what our clones do. That way it's still easy to use for players who don't understand the current ability, but give the high end WW monks the power to still control them and keep the aspect of the ability that separated good from great.

[Deleted]

The good:
- it's easier to use
- faster set up (if both clones get spawned instantly), helping e.g. for AoE

The bad:
- less control: I thought they want us to have control over the stuff we do. As it seems now, they just spawn two images that randomly run around and punch stuff.
- even more randomness due to movement: That follows directly from less control. Right now, I can target my images to mobs that I know don't move. After the patch, they may target some mobs which are running around. And, as we know, half the styles are not copied then.
- our niche is even more specific: We have 3 target cleave of mobs which live long and don't move as a niche. 2 target? nope. Single target? Never been really good at that - though they seem to want to change it. AoE? Niche of other classes.

All in all: I don't like it. The ability is clunky. But taking away control from players and adding a random element to an ability which already has so many problems (own RSK buff / TP buff needs to be set up, doesn't copy many abilities when targets are moving too fast, no moving while FoF, etc) doesn't make it better.
It's kinda sad that they themself say that it is a key ability of the WW monk, and leave it with so many problems in there for so long. And then they come up with such a cheap "fix". But, on the other hand, to use development time for (one of the) least played spec(s) in the game isn't really economically viable, so it's also understandable.

[satimy]

I was considering rerolling to WW next expansion, but sorry guys its now marked on my DNP list

[Weriik]

I'm fine with it if it just splits you in half for 2 targets, otherwise a glyph to make it work the old way would be nice even though it seems those types of glyphs are gone.

And if it doesn't? Oh well, I'm not going to class change. I surely expect a large amount of Windwalkers to leave the spec anyway for Legion so it baffles me why they would change this ability in that case, and not just rewrite the tooltip. It isn't the end of the world if it goes through, and I'm not going to switch if it does.

If this change is REALLY a dealbreaker for you, post it on the official forums. If you complain and cry loud enough Blizzard may listen. Let them know it's fine for there to be mechanics in this spec that just everybody isn't going to get, that they can explain the ability better without having to change it.

[RippedLife]

fucking remove that bullshit already, boring spell and makes us less viable in pvp for no reason

[Honak]

fucking remove that bullshit already, boring spell and makes us less viable in pvp for no reason

There are still people who PvP as Windwalker? That's funny.

[Metaslave]

Monk preview announced for Wednesday. We'll hopefully get some more details on SEF then.

[satimy]

I'm fine with it if it just splits you in half for 2 targets, otherwise a glyph to make it work the old way would be nice even though it seems those types of glyphs are gone.

And if it doesn't? Oh well, I'm not going to class change. I surely expect a large amount of Windwalkers to leave the spec anyway for Legion so it baffles me why they would change this ability in that case, and not just rewrite the tooltip. It isn't the end of the world if it goes through, and I'm not going to switch if it does.

If this change is REALLY a dealbreaker for you, post it on the official forums. If you complain and cry loud enough Blizzard may listen. Let them know it's fine for there to be mechanics in this spec that just everybody isn't going to get, that they can explain the ability better without having to change it.

No blizzard doesnt care about feedback, look at what happened to warriors this expansion

[Imbalanced]

We know what we know so far. We don't know HOW the AI works just yet, so anyone who is saying they will attack the wrong target is speculating. It should be better phrased as "We hope the implementation means a smart AI is working" - at this point we know nothing.

Questions / concerns should be phrased as that, outrage that "They are dumb and will attack the wrong stuff!" Is 100% misplaced at this time.

That's naive, look at other classes with pets they have assist stances that is supposed to target what they target and yet they have macros for everything pet related because the AI sucks, and that's just supposed to assist you. And we are supposed to just accept the fact that it will work fine? There are too many fights where bosses need to be pushed in the right order, or gain damage reductions, or get some sort of shield that if you break it does something bad, to hope that this will work out fine.

[chaarrllee3000]

I think this way is boring.

I like it the way it is now currently. I like assigning my targets for my clones lol. Curse you blizzard, lol.

[Ulfhedinn]

I like it when there is 3 or less targets, they are not grouped up and they are going to live for a while. In those cases it isn't clunky or hard to use. However as soon as the targets group up or you need aoe is when crap hits the fan... As has been pointed out we suffered big time at release over this one ability. It is so strong that it makes a massive skill/DPS gap between poor, good, great, and nearly perfect WWs. I love high skill caps and things that allow for a little more for playing better but SEF isn't a little more for playing better.

I am willing to give up some fun/control to never had to deal with the headache this ability tends to cause. However the clones must stay the way they look. That for me has become what WW is all about... the clones are what makes WW stand out from the rest of the melee (especially energy users) and I want to at least keep that part of it.

[messka]

What's wrong with blizzard? They fixed SEF to make monk gameplay easier for bad players...
I did't take participate in first kills many of HFC bosses because monks dont have any raid utility like rallying cry or mass grip.
I did't take participate in first kills many of HFC bosses because monks dont have high single target dmg.
Velhari and HF council? Thanks, now get out of my raid group.
I don't take participate in Acrhi kill because warriors are better.
CAN BLIZZARD ADD SOMETHING USEFUL, PLEASE. I KNOW HOW SEF WORKS, I DONT NEED THAT... please.

[Servasus]

The lack of control is retarded. I'm sorry, but this is a prime example of how casuals ruin an otherwise fun and skill-rewarding game. There's nothing wrong with the current iteration of SEF except that is incurs a CD. Other than that, there's no reason to change it. With this change, though, it will become basically useless in 2 target situations, and also completely destroy the ability to choose what you're attacking, which just will NOT fly in raids, where priority targeting can be key to winning.

[Basilmoyh]

Grumble, grumble. This change probably won't make a lot of difference, though. There will be a few fights where you'll wish you had the old SEF, but most fights it won't matter. You can still choose your primary target.

[Stuffs]

I would have been happy if they just made it so the player was at 100% and the clone was at 40%, instead of 70/70. I hope the third clone despawns if there isn't a target available at least, and they're smart enough to not go for enemies with damage mitigation.

[Foncy]

This literally did not fix a single problem that SEF had. Targetting mobs with SEF is what made it unique. It gave the Windwalker identity. It really makes me wonder how much feedback blizzard has read through when literally every single one of their points on the Class page I disagree with.

-They're literally just changing this into a psuedo blade fury.
-The randomness that SEF will now have will in more instances than not make it not worth using.
-The biggest problem with SEF was that you had to refresh buffs/debuffs as you sent SEF out. In addition, clones FoF'ing would not move.
-The GCD SEF cost was rather annoying, but no where near gamebreaking. It is not worth trading in this miniscule resource cost for this complete lack of control over the spell.
-SEF was really niche as it allowed Windwalker control of where their damage went. The point blizz brought up about our single target I think is complete garbage as in our prime, we were always a top 5 dps class. However, we are also, undisputedly, the best cleaving class out there. If we're talking strictly balance here, IT MAKES SENSE FOR US TO HAVE WEAKER SINGLE TARGET. You cannot balance a class if they have an ability like SEF, yet are also the best ST class.
-While the GCD cost did hinder our burst AoE; SEF was not really intended for that, it was intended for sustain AoE.
-We already have Chi Burst and Chi Torpedo, we don't need this change.

[Deleted]

Grumble, grumble. This change probably won't make a lot of difference, though. There will be a few fights where you'll wish you had the old SEF, but most fights it won't matter. You can still choose your primary target.

What? It will matter for 80% of the fights looking at blizzard recent trend of having only 1-3 ST fights per tier. That change is by no means minor, WW is defined by SEF in its current iteration and since we are not getting rework I don't see WW niche or anything that would make it desirable to any raid group, but let's wait for class blogs (but since WW wasn't among specs that are getting changed like shadow/demo/survi/combat rouge I doubt we will see major overhaul and there is no way WW will be top ST spec, SEF in or not).

[Khorm]

Lots of whine in this thread.

[darkwarrior42]

Lots of whine in this thread.

They're literally removing the ability of players to control how one of their iconic ability works because newer or less skilled players can't be bothered to figure out how it works and Blizzard is either unable or unwilling to properly explain it or properly support it in-game.

If there's a better example of dumbing an ability down, I can't think of it.

[Foncy]

They're literally removing the ability of players to control how one of their iconic ability works because newer or less skilled players can't be bothered to figure out how it works and Blizzard is either unable or unwilling to properly explain it or properly support it in-game.

If there's a better example of dumbing an ability down, I can't think of it.

Where's the like button. This guy gets it.