Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Soisoisoi]

how exactly did exsanguinate get nerfed?
i didnt notice anything in either the game or the patchnotes

i think the pvp template nerfed rupture, which nerfed exs

iirc it ticks at like 200% speed instead of 400% on players, no damage change to rupture. Just less burst basically. I've not checked the exact speed but it sure is different.

E: Just tested it.
A 28second (6cp) Rupture goes to about 13 seconds, and an 18second Garrote down to 7sec. So taking into account GCD (mfd+garrote>rupture>Exs) I assume it's 200%.

[shaunika123]

iirc it ticks at like 200% speed instead of 400% on players, no damage change to rupture. Just less burst basically. I've not checked the exact speed but it sure is different.

E: Just tested it.
A 28second (6cp) Rupture goes to about 13 seconds, and an 18second Garrote down to 7sec. So taking into account GCD (mfd+garrote>rupture>Exs) I assume it's 200%.

so assa is boring again?

great

[Soisoisoi]

so assa is boring again?

great

Nope. You can still melt people, and rot teams in 3s. It's just slightly less bursty from bleeds alone - but considering they buffed Envenom to the point where it's actually useful... I would consider it a decent change. You can go from DoTing up the team and doing a shitload of damage, to bursting with Envenoms.

[Wow]

iirc it ticks at like 200% speed instead of 400% on players, no damage change to rupture. Just less burst basically. I've not checked the exact speed but it sure is different.

E: Just tested it.
A 28second (6cp) Rupture goes to about 13 seconds, and an 18second Garrote down to 7sec. So taking into account GCD (mfd+garrote>rupture>Exs) I assume it's 200%.

Then they nerfed both nice...

Full stack of agonizing on a dummy 6cp rupture ticks for 96k non crit this is with only 18k agi

Fully stacked on player in a bg 68k and in bg's my agi goes up to 23k and my mastery goes up making agonizing give more dmg.

That's like 2 trinket procs worth of agi and it's still that low it's definitely nerfed in pvp.

[Soisoisoi]

Then they nerfed both nice...

Full stack of agonizing on a dummy 6cp rupture ticks for 96k non crit this is with only 18k agi

Fully stacked on player in a bg 68k and in bg's my agi goes up to 23k and my mastery goes up making agonizing give more dmg.

That's like 2 trinket procs worth of agi and it's still that low it's definitely nerfed in pvp.

Don't forget you have a specific stat sheet for PvP; your gear, other than ilvl, is meaningless.

[Wow]

Don't forget you have a specific stat sheet for PvP; your gear, other than ilvl, is meaningless.

The stat sheet moves my agi up and mastery up in pvp that's pretty meaningful to dmg....

The point of your post was what? Template changes your stats no kidding that's why I said what it made my stats that matter in pvp...

The boost in stats the dmg should be even higher than in the world but it's lower so it gets nerfed massively in pvp.

[Soisoisoi]

The stat sheet moves my agi up and mastery up in pvp that's pretty meaningful to dmg....

The point of your post was what? Template changes your stats no kidding that's why I said what it made my stats that matter in pvp...

Sure but we also don't know how other abilities react in terms of damage % on a player, as they aren't documenting that and nor is it in the datamining as far as I can see. It's all up in the air atm. I expect damage to be lower on players.

[Wow]

Sure but we also don't know how other abilities react in terms of damage % on a player, as they aren't documenting that and nor is it in the datamining as far as I can see. It's all up in the air atm. I expect damage to be lower on players.

Things don't do less dmg unless they make them do less dmg. They've left things the same as pve other than really just sub and assassination and prot pallys lol. Warriors are still doing 1.5m ms's, Glacial Spike's for 2-3m lol.

The point is that rupture is nerfed in pvp where you said it wasn't.

[Soisoisoi]

Things don't do less dmg unless they make them do less dmg. They've left things the same as pve other than really just sub and assassination and prot pallys lol. Warriors are still doing 1.5m ms's, Glacial Spike's for 2-3m lol.

The point is that rupture is nerfed in pvp where you said it wasn't now you say expect dmg to be lower on players wtf is this.

I meant it wasn't nerfed recently, not that it wasn't nerfed at all or specifically for PvP; it's still doing about the same for me as it has been the last two days as far as I can tell, whereas Exsanguinate definitely changed somewhere in those two days.

I expect damage to be lower in PvP as a whole, I also expect it to be different tuning to PvE, which it will be considering that's the point of the stat sheets. It lets the PvE side of things go ham and grow in power whilst keeping PvP on a leash so it can be tuned far closer.

[Wow]

I expect damage to be lower in PvP as a whole, I also expect it to be different tuning to PvE, which it will be considering that's the point of the stat sheets.

They've shown they don't touch dmg on classes unless they are doing something like sub's dfa's etc. They could tune every single spec near perfectly but that takes time and effort which is something blizzard doesn't use in pvp. You can't go around nerfing things like evis or rupture when its other things that are causing the problem and not move the dmg to something else. Which they didn't do we got lucky that pve buffed other things but pvp had nothing to do with that and would have left the specs low like they did since they nerfed rupture, evis, shadowstrike, etc in pvp some time back.

If you're going to tune specs just for pvp you have to actually tune them fully not nerf a few things massively and leave the rest as is. But for months now they've shown they are just in the business of nerfing not actually tuning specs.

[Soisoisoi]

They've shown they don't touch dmg on classes unless they are doing something like sub's dfa's etc. They could tune every single spec near perfectly but that takes time and effort which is something blizzard doesn't use in pvp.

They've been pretty shit at it in the past, sure, but considering they even did some PvP specific tuning on live servers recently (well, a few months back), and they are changing how spells work for PvP - and now the whole stat sheet thing, it should be better. Should be.

You can't go around nerfing things like evis or rupture when its other things that are causing the problem and not move the dmg to something else. Which they didn't do we got lucky that pve buffed other things but pvp had nothing to do with that and would have left the specs low like they did since they nerfed rupture, evis, shadowstrike, etc in pvp some time back.

If you're going to tune specs just for pvp you have to actually tune them fully not nerf a few things massively and leave the rest as is.

That's what Beta is for, that's why they also didn't reduce the damage of Rupture in the last few days - they simply made Exsanguinate 200% instead of 400% tick speed. Same damage over a longer period.

If you have ideas on what should be change for better balance then submit suggestions. That's the point.

[Wow]

They've been pretty shit at it in the past, sure, but considering they even did some PvP specific tuning on live servers recently (well, a few months back), and they are changing how spells work for PvP - and now the whole stat sheet thing, it should be better. Should be.


That's what Beta is for, that's why they also didn't reduce the damage of Rupture in the last few days - they simply made Exsanguinate 200% instead of 400% tick speed. Same damage over a longer period.

One thing this should cover everything remember 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, 6.0 doesn't expect them to do any good work in beta at all for pvp.
Also as pointed out they already gutted rupture and now nerfed the talent too it's called overkill..

They always have topped themselves with how bad they can make it legion will be no different

[Soisoisoi]

One thing this should cover everything Remebmer 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, 6.0 doesn't expect them to do any good work in beta at all for pvp.
Also as pointed out they already gutted rupture and now nerfed the talent too it's called overkill..

They always have topped themselves with how bad they can make it.

Considering they ARE tuning specifically for PvP - hence these PvP specific changes - I'm just not seeing your point here. I said myself they were terrible at it in the past, maybe they will fuck it up again, but as of right now they are at least heading in the right direction... i.e. actually tuning stuff, slowly, but they are.

Also, it's not overkill at all considering I can still get any non-tank class to about 20% with literally 3 GCDs as Assass from the opener [MfD+Garrote>Rupture>Exs]. That's excluding auto-hits, poisons and any other abilities.

[Sarkol]

so assa is boring again?

great

If by boring you mean ' Not disgustingly overpowered', then yeah. Imagine complaining about a PvP Exsanguinate nerf. Don't think i've ever seen anything so OP in PvP.

[shaunika123]

If by boring you mean ' Not disgustingly overpowered', then yeah. Imagine complaining about a PvP Exsanguinate nerf. Don't think i've ever seen anything so OP in PvP.

yeah but now it's not even worth using, exsanguinate was a fun mechanic

they shouldve just reduced rupture dmg instead of making it not what it's supposed to be
it's supposed to turn your dots into burst, not slightly faster dots.

i know it was OP, but that's not why it was fun to play

[Deleted]

yeah but now it's not even worth using, exsanguinate was a fun mechanic

they shouldve just reduced rupture dmg instead of making it not what it's supposed to be
it's supposed to turn your dots into burst, not slightly faster dots.

i know it was OP, but that's not why it was fun to play

Nah, if they nerfed rupture, then it would do toilet damage when you didn't have exsang up. You want those strong ruptures during downtime to keep up pressure, especially since Assas will be awesome in dot comps like RLS now.

It's still really fucking strong undispellable(which is it's key strength in Arena) damage so when partnered with another strong dps partner the burst it provides will still be no joke.

[shaunika123]

Nah, if they nerfed rupture, then it would do toilet damage when you didn't have exsang up. You want those strong ruptures during downtime to keep up pressure, especially since Assas will be awesome in dot comps like RLS now.

It's still really fucking strong undispellable(which is it's key strength in Arena) damage so when partnered with another strong dps partner the burst it provides will still be no joke.

then make exsang do "your bleeds tick 400% faster but do 20% less damage" in pvp

problem solved, now it's not even exsang anymore, kinda made me not want to play assa in pvp, that was the whole point, that your bleeds ticked super fast, not "slightly faster"
plus this way it gives less energy which is one of the main good things about it.

[Sarkol]

then make exsang do "your bleeds tick 400% faster but do 20% less damage" in pvp

problem solved, now it's not even exsang anymore, kinda made me not want to play assa in pvp, that was the whole point, that your bleeds ticked super fast, not "slightly faster"
plus this way it gives less energy which is one of the main good things about it.

So you only wanted to play Assassination in PVP due to a stupidly OP talent? What sort of reasoning is that?

[shaunika123]

So you only wanted to play Assassination in PVP due to a stupidly OP talent? What sort of reasoning is that?

did you even read what i wrote?

and anyway, why is it exsangu that's suddenly the problem, whenever anything comes out of stun it literally kills me in 2 globals, even tank classes kill you in one stun but suddenly exsangu is OP? i mean it is OP, but so is everything else, if everything's OP nothing is :P

[Deleted]

then make exsang do "your bleeds tick 400% faster but do 20% less damage" in pvp

problem solved, now it's not even exsang anymore, kinda made me not want to play assa in pvp, that was the whole point, that your bleeds ticked super fast, not "slightly faster"
plus this way it gives less energy which is one of the main good things about it.

So have rupture do 20% less damage whilst exsang is up??

I could live with that, no idea if they would do something like that though as seems like a lot of effort.

I agree with you that having tick at x4 rate was alot more fun and made using it actually feel like a burst ability, they could have at least tried it at 300% first, but typical bliz thumbing the nerfs in dry with no lube!!

Also @Sarkol as much as exang at 400% with the current modifiers for rupture is OP, the damage still happens over 5s so if a healer is not in cc he can do something about it, so it at least can be reacted to...........2.3M glacial spikes and plenty of other spells that front load their damage instantly however do not, that is disgustingly overpowered.