Resto Druid - Legion Talents

[Tiberria]

Here is what our talent tree apparently looks like with the Wowhead data mining. Several of the talent rows appear to only have 2 talents at this point.

Level 15:
Cenarion Ward - same as live version
Germination - allows 2 Rejuvs at the same time but no longer increases the duration of Rejuv
Verdant Growth - Increases the critical strike chance of your Regrowth by 40%.

Level 30:
Displacer Beast - same as on live
Wild Charge - same as on live

Level 45:
Balance/Feral/Guardian Affinity talent row

Level 60:
Mass Entanglement - same as live
Mighty Bash- same as live

Level 75:
Soul of the Forest - similar to live version, but no longer affects Healing Touch, and the effect on Rejuv/Regrowth/WG have been doubled over the live version (keep in mind Swiftmend has a 30 second CD, so this is not really a buff).
Cultivation - When Rejuv heals a target below 50% HP, it also applies an additional 6 second HoT
Incarnation - Tree of Life - live version

Level 90:
Prosperity: Reduces the cooldown of Swiftmend by 5 sec and it now has 2 charges.
Inner Peace: Reduces the cooldown of Tranquility by 60 sec
Profusion: When you have Rejuvenation active on three or more targets, the cast time of your Healing Touch spell is reduced by 30%.

Level 100:
Flourish: Extend the duration of all of your heal over time effects on friendly targets within 60 yards by 10 sec.
Stonebark: Reduces the cooldown of Ironbark by 15 sec, and it increases healing from your heal over time effects by 20%.
Moment of Clarity - Omen of Clarity now works on the next 3 Regrowths

The old talents - Force of Nature, Dream of Cenarius, Nature's Vigil and Ursol's Vortex have all been rolled baseline for Resto.

Mark of the Wild - which is Resto's new spec specific utility (to "compensate" for the removal of Stampeding Roar) is basically the same as the current Mark of the Wild on live but can only be cast on a single target. All raid buffs (Stats/Mastery/SP, etc.) are being removed.

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As far as my feeling on the talents that have been datamined so far.

Level 15 - Germination is going to be virtually mandatory because of how the new mastery works. It's hard to see Cenarion Ward being competitive with it.

Level 30 - Very happy to see they didn't touch Displacer Beast

Level 45 - I suspect that we will take Balance Affinity by default if we don't absolutely need the 10% damage reduction or movement speed, just to get Moonkin Form/Starsurge etc. for more flexibility to do DPS during low damage periods. 45 yard range on heals is a decent perk.

Level 60 - Yawn - same current CC talents. Didn't they say they didn't want to have CC tiers, movement speed tiers, etc any more?

Level 75 - Cultivation is interesting, because it lets you instantly get 2 mastery stacks on any target below 50% health. The tuning of it will determine whether it's competitive with Incarnation. I have a hard time seeing Soul of the Forest be any good with a 30 second Swiftmend CD. Even if they compensated with the increase to the effect, you just don't get to use it often enough at 30 seconds to warrant losing a huge 3 minute cooldown.

Level 90 - Similarly, I just don't see Prosperity being a well thought out talent. Yes, Swiftmend is a much more significant spell in WoD, but it's still going to have a 25 second cooldown, and that extra charge only gets you +1 use in a typical fight. I also thought stuff with charges was supposed to be going away. Inner Peace is going to be incredibly strong and mandatory if they tune Tranq anywhere near to the level that the current co-efficients suggest it will need to be tuned.

Level 100 - Stonebark sounds like another very poor talent. 15 seconds off Ironbark's CD and getting back the +20% to HoTs Draenor perk just isn't going to be impactful enough unless tank survivability becomes a ridiculous issue. Flourish sounds like the default option.

Also, I think Mark of the Wild is piss poor utility and terrible compensation for losing roar. So, you can select one target, give them +5% to their primary stat, and they will do what, like ~3% more damage. Assuming you have 14 DPS in your raid that is a ~0.2% raid DPS increase. That is absolutely trivial (for anything other than farming/helping one person pad and go for DPS ranks), and much, much worse than significant utility like Stampeding Roar. When you consider that Holy Priests are getting a spell that makes all healer mana costs 0 for 12 seconds, and Holy Paladins are keeping all of their current utility (BoP, Sac, Freedom, Devo Aura), Druids are going to be lacking in raid value unless they significantly bring more throughput.

[Deleted]

As far as I noticed Yseras gift is also baseline to resto too and people who pick it as affinity too of course.

Also, it says that Natures Vigil is a level 1 baseline spell for ALL druids. I just can't see that. Really? And dream of cenarious for all druids at 62 seems really daft. I believe the typhoon was a level 60 thing though I'm not sure if it said talent though too you cant tell these days.

[WhatSGooD]

The changes to the glyphs are big:
Regrowth glyph no longers removes the dot from regrowth but still gives cirt
and glyph of Rejuv is up to 30% reduce cast time from 10%

[Tiberria]

Yes - sounds like Typhoon is becoming a lv 60 talent.

They moved a shitload of current talents baseline for all specs. For example, HPallies get their double beacon talent baseline, and Shaman get Elemental Mastery baseline. Nature's Vigil is probably just added for extra utility across all specs. Treants are probably being made baseline because they have an iconic and very Druid fitting "theme" but are something they've never been able to balance as a talent without the talent being complete garbage. With them baseline, they don't have to make them competitive with something like Incarnation.

Dream of Cenarius being baseline doesn't surprise me. They've said they want more options for healers to do DPS, so it makes sense as a baseline ability, because it wasn't getting enough use past a certain gear level as a talent.

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The changes to the glyphs are big:
Regrowth glyph no longers removes the dot from regrowth but still gives cirt
and glyph of Rejuv is up to 30% reduce cast time from 10%

Eh - I don't think those changes are that big.

With the new mastery, no one would likely ever want Regrowth glyphed if it removed the HoT effect, so they had to do that. That Healing Touch glyph has always been pretty terrible, and Healing Touch will be an especially terrible spell (doesn't apply Harmony), so they need to prop it up for it to ever be worth casting.

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One other thing to note - Wild Growth has apparently been changed back to being an instant cast.

That's an interesting decision. However, if they were going to lift one of the restrictions on WG, I think the cast time was one of the least appropriate restrictions to be removed. We will already have significantly more mobility than any other healer in Legion with the changes made to MW, HPriest and DPriest. I just don't know how much instant WG adds to the toolkit. They can't balance the healing game around that level of utility being required (or else the less mobile healers wouldn't be able to function), and a 1.5 second cast time is the same amount of GCD time as an instant GCD.

I think they would have been much better off removing the CD on WG and letting its use be restricted by mana consumption - just like PoH, Chain Heal, Essence Font, etc. have no CD and are resource limited. Alternately, if they want to leave the CD on, making it a true smart heal (instead of random injured targets) would be appropriate.

[Wildmoon]

I think the datamined info is simply outdated and mostly not reliable. Wild Growth for example has cast time in Blizz preview.

[Tiberria]

I think the datamined info is simply outdated and mostly not reliable. Wild Growth for example has cast time in Blizz preview.

Or, the class previews were written several weeks ago, and they recently made the change to Wild Growth on the alpha/beta servers after the preview was finalized.

[Hypasonic]

I don't think it's worth looking into these datamined "changes" too much yet, some of them don't really seem legit. Like removing raid buffs, don't really see why that's needed.

[Pikapika]

As far as I noticed Yseras gift is also baseline to resto too and people who pick it as affinity too of course.

Also, it says that Natures Vigil is a level 1 baseline spell for ALL druids. I just can't see that. Really? And dream of cenarious for all druids at 62 seems really daft. I believe the typhoon was a level 60 thing though I'm not sure if it said talent though too you cant tell these days.

I think it's safe to assume spells that had their level changed to 1 and any class/spec requirements removed from the tooltip have been removed. Force of Nature has received a pretty similar treatment, as has Claws of Shirvallah, which is definitely removed.

[Deleted]

I hope this is a joke. So what they said on blizzcon was BS. Hundread of new talents and a lot of rows to choose from... And here we have only 2 rows??? Really?? I thought we will have at least 4 rows of talents. Hmm looking forward for more info on this

[stormgust]

Just skimmed over the changes, but looks like druids (by a large margin) have the least amount of utility and the most limited resp. restrictive healing toolkit (if renew vs. reju is an indicator, our throughput will be tuned around several stacks of hots rolling, not just one ...)

[Puxycat]

gg Resto druids r1 again nothing of their pvp healing power is cut, i remember them saying they would reduce resto druid's pvp efficiency..

[stormgust]

Level 15:
Cenarion Ward - same as live version
Germination - allows 2 Rejuvs at the same time but no longer increases the duration of Rejuv

Germination forced due to our new mastery, can't see CW competing at all.

Level 30:
Displacer Beast - same as on live
Wild Charge - same as on live

Glad to see Displacer Beast stay, though WildCharge would need some serious buffs to be worth considering (longer range and faster movespeed).

Level 45:
Balance/Feral/Guardian Affinity talent row

A row of three passives. Due to lack of spec specific passives, mastery, four throughput enhancing talents and an entire artefact, I wouldn't be surprised if the resp. form would deal less damage then even our baseline wrath spam. It's really just three differently coloured versions of HotW.

Level 60:
Mass Entanglement - same as live
Mighty Bash- same as live

Was hoping that those would go away - one spec specific CC baseline, others moved to PvP tree. But they kept 1 CC row for all classes, so fine with that.

Level 75:
Soul of the Forest - similar to live version, but no longer affects Healing Touch, and the effect on Rejuv/Regrowth/WG have been doubled over the live version (keep in mind Swiftmend has a 30 second CD, so this is not really a buff).

Problematic with a 30s CD on WG, simply too large a variance due to WG being not smart. Also, you certainly would try evade layering HoTs on those with a buffed WG/Reju.

Cultivation - When Rejuv heals a target below 50% HP, it also applies an additional 6 second HoT

If you layer HoTs, you're effectively preventing this from triggering. If you layer HoTs and it still somehow triggers - depending on the strength of the additional HoTs - it will just cause the layered HoTs to go into overheal. Definitely some interesting mastery interaction.

Incarnation - Tree of Life - live version

Same as on live. Seems like the theme of this row is "ways of making you not want to stack HoTs"

Level 90:
Prosperity: Reduces the cooldown of Swiftmend by 5 sec and it now has 2 charges.

See WoD beta discussion on RampantGrowth/SotF why this talent should be scrapped. But I'm eager to test SotF/Germ/Prosp/Flourish for PvP ...

Inner Peace: Reduces the cooldown of Tranquility by 60 sec

"Tranquility will fix it".

Level 100:
Flourish: Extend the duration of all of your heal over time effects on friendly targets within 60 yards by 10 sec.

Free's up GCD's so that you actually have some to stack HoTs. You ideally would not start with WG targets (too much overheal), cannot on other targets without germination (forced talent selection).

Stonebark: Reduces the cooldown of Ironbark by 15 sec, and it increases healing from your heal over time effects by 20%.

Uhm, yeah. I guess if your tank is bad or to cheat some single target mechanics?

Because it was not mentioned:

Lvl 100:
Moment of Clarity - OoC now works on the next 3 Regrowths

Yah for another single target talent option I guess?

As for the glyph changes, I'd say those two should be the missing talents:

LvL 15
Verdant Growth
Increases the critical strike chance of your Regrowth by 40%.

Would "force" T100 onto MoC (resp. MoC would force this one), if it weren't for the new mastery forcing germination.

LvL 90
Profusion
When you have Rejuvenation active on three or more targets, the cast time of your Healing Touch spell is reduced by 30%.

No one bothered with this glyph, it's certainly not worth being a talent (esp. not comparable to a 60s CD reduction on Tranquility). Furthermore, spread HoTs to cast direct heals works against our new mastery. Then, never pick if either of the above two (or even both) are chosen.


Doesn't look like they put much thought into those talents: A bunch of talents which work against our new mastery, two which are forced by it, quite a few talents which run exclusive to eachother, and even a line of four talents which should be taken stacked up for PvP.

[Deleted]

possible to see to the other specs? (especially guardian)

[Pyrianis]

The changes to the glyphs are big:
Regrowth glyph no longers removes the dot from regrowth but still gives cirt
and glyph of Rejuv is up to 30% reduce cast time from 10%

Actually, those appear to be talents now: Verdant Growth (lvl 15) and Profusion (lvl 90). With some more incentive, VG could perhaps rival Germination. Profusion is a laughable alternative to Inner Peace, though.

Tiberria's prediction about us becoming even more Tranq-centric is coming true, after all. No other AoE talents to speak of.

Moment of Clarity is finally what it always should've been, simply 3 charges of Omen, BUT it competes with Flourish. Ouch.

I don't see Cultivation rivaling the juggernauts that are Inc/SotF until it's triggered by all healing, not just Rejuv.

We're losing BOTH Stampeding Roar and Dash...

Germination's +3 sec is gone; Lifebloom is -5 sec; is there any HoT duration increase other than Flourish?

Ironbark: The target's skin becomes as tough as Ironwood, reducing all damage taken by 20% Lasts 12 sec.for 12 sec. Counts as a heal over time effect for Mastery: Harmony.

This should be a thing for people within Efflo, too. :/

[stormgust]

Tiberria's prediction about us becoming even more Tranq-centric is coming true, after all. No other AoE talents to speak of.

Legion is the fourth expansion in a row, for which they're following their "rdruid toolkit is in a good spot" stance. We hardly get any new spell like other classes (via talents or even base), we're yet again stuck with our raid healing tuned around: WG, Reju, Tranq. The first has a CD, they don't want us to spam the second (-> focus of talent tree on single target talents), so the only thing they can buff is Tranquility.

[Madus]

gg Resto druids r1 again nothing of their pvp healing power is cut, i remember them saying they would reduce resto druid's pvp efficiency..

well they made Dash (only feral), Stampeding roar (only feral,guardian), Incapacitating roar (only guardian) and Fearie swarm looks like removed thats reduced pvp efficiency.

[Tiberria]

They also removed the ability to extend the duration of Lifebloom by casting HT/RG on the target, so we are locked into one GCD every 10 seconds on it. The 3 second effective reduction to the duration of Rejuv (since everyone takes Germination now) also really hurts in a model where our new mastery is about HoT layering. With the amount of GCD capping that we will have (Renew every 10 seconds, Efflo every 30 secs, OOC Regrowth every ~25 secs, WG every 10 secs), even if we have the mana to use every GCD, we are going to practically be limited to around 5 Rejuvs active at a time effectively. In comparison, Monks will basically be able to have 4+ Renewing Mists out at a time when you factor in TFT and new TFT talents.

Also, they were not kidding about Rejuv/WG being "moderate" heals in the class previews relative to the other healing spells that are somewhat comparable with them.

These are early co-coefficients, but take a look.

Rejuv - 271% SP
Renew - 500% SP
Renewing Mist - 750% of SP (and jumps to the LOWEST health target every time it overheals)
Riptide - 550% of SP (250% direct heal/300% HoT)
Holy Shock - 300% of SP (even this is stronger than Rejuv despite being an instant direct heal)

Wild Growth - 280% of SP (10 sec CD)
Prayer of Healing - 300% of SP (NO CD)
Chain Heal - 350% of SP (NO CD)
Holy Word Sanctify - 600% of SP (6 targets -1 min CD but CD reduced by 6-8 secs per PoH cast)

Regrowth - 270% SP (215% direct heal + 54% HoT)
Flash Heal - 450% SP
Healing Surge - 450% SP
Flash of Light - 375% of SP plus 50% healing to 2 beacons
Basically, Regrowth is balanaced around always being a crit/always having the 100% crit talent to be on par with other flash heals.

Healing Touch - 360% of SP (but apparently is instant for all specs now?)
Holy Light - 375% of SP
Healing Wave - 450% of SP

Basically, we are now the 4th best HoT healer at these current numbers. If you want to play something that fits the role that Resto Druids have filled since at least WoTLK, it's time to reroll to the redesigned Mistweaver. The reason why all of our spells are such garbage compared to every other healing spec? It's all about Tranq. They said at Blizzcon (at least in one of the off camera dev chats that I read about) that they want Tranq to be stronger relative to how it is on live and stronger relative to other healing CDs because it is stationary. They then created a talent that reduces it to a 2 minute CD. That talent is going to obviously be 100% mandatory in a raid environment and something they have to balance around everyone having. The result is going to be - Tranq will be like 40%-50% of Druid healing and the only thing the spec is useful for. If you want to be a Tranq BoT with very weak baseline healing, stay Druid. If you want to be an actual raid/throughput healer, it's time to reroll Mistweaver or Holy Priest.

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I don't think it's worth looking into these datamined "changes" too much yet, some of them don't really seem legit. Like removing raid buffs, don't really see why that's needed.

They already confirmed at Blizzcon (maybe not on camera, but certainly to people 1 on 1 that was later tweeted out) that raid buffs were intended to be removed.

[stormgust]

They also removed the ability to extend the duration of Lifebloom by casting HT/RG on the target, so we are locked into one GCD every 10 seconds on it. The 3 second effective reduction to the duration of Rejuv (since everyone takes Germination now) also really hurts in a model where our new mastery is about HoT layering.

Well, given that they doubled LB's mana cost and didn't touch the healing, you wouldn't cast it anyway. But still I agree, they're adding all those talents actually eating up GCD's (Verdant Growth, MoC, Prosperity, Profusion), but not providing mastery benefit on one side, then on the other side apparently tune our entire toolkit around having several HoT stacks going (in effect putting us behind everyone else when we cannot stack them).

Yah for lack of consistency, not that I expected it to turn out any other way: the new harmony does not allow for a lot of talent design, which either wouldn't run contrary to it, or be strictly forced by it (entirely ignoring all the balancing concern it raises).

They then created a talent that reduces it to a 2 minute CD.

To be honest, I don't even get how this entire talent tier made it past concept stage. Prosperity is going to be broken in PvP, especially when paired up with about anything else in that tree (as if they learned nothing from Rampant Growth). Profusion has been proven to be entirely in the past expansions. It simply does not provide anything, which our core toolkit cannot already accomplish on its own. And then there this Inner Peace, and about everything wrong with that one you already said. It's 60s of of Tranquility, nothing is ever going to compare with it - and it entails severe throughput cuts to our base toolkit for balance reasons.

[Tiberria]

Nature's Swiftness also has apparently been removed.

We are still going to be forced to use Lifebloom and to aim for as close to 100% uptime as possible, because our mana regen is going to be balanced around Omen of Clarity procs and around having those mana free casts. They haven't given us any other mana management tools, but have still left in things like Resurgence and talents for several other healers that give them mana reductions/free casts.

[Sprucelee]

They also removed the ability to extend the duration of Lifebloom by casting HT/RG on the target, so we are locked into one GCD every 10 seconds on it. The 3 second effective reduction to the duration of Rejuv (since everyone takes Germination now) also really hurts in a model where our new mastery is about HoT layering. With the amount of GCD capping that we will have (Renew every 10 seconds, Efflo every 30 secs, OOC Regrowth every ~25 secs, WG every 10 secs), even if we have the mana to use every GCD, we are going to practically be limited to around 5 Rejuvs active at a time effectively. In comparison, Monks will basically be able to have 4+ Renewing Mists out at a time when you factor in TFT and new TFT talents.

Also, they were not kidding about Rejuv/WG being "moderate" heals in the class previews relative to the other healing spells that are somewhat comparable with them.

These are early co-coefficients, but take a look.

Rejuv - 271% SP
Renew - 500% SP
Renewing Mist - 750% of SP (and jumps to the LOWEST health target every time it overheals)
Riptide - 550% of SP (250% direct heal/300% HoT)
Holy Shock - 300% of SP (even this is stronger than Rejuv despite being an instant direct heal)

Wild Growth - 280% of SP (10 sec CD)
Prayer of Healing - 300% of SP (NO CD)
Chain Heal - 350% of SP (NO CD)
Holy Word Sanctify - 600% of SP (6 targets -1 min CD but CD reduced by 6-8 secs per PoH cast)

Regrowth - 270% SP (215% direct heal + 54% HoT)
Flash Heal - 450% SP
Healing Surge - 450% SP
Flash of Light - 375% of SP plus 50% healing to 2 beacons
Basically, Regrowth is balanaced around always being a crit/always having the 100% crit talent to be on par with other flash heals.

Healing Touch - 360% of SP (but apparently is instant for all specs now?)
Holy Light - 375% of SP
Healing Wave - 450% of SP

Basically, we are now the 4th best HoT healer at these current numbers. If you want to play something that fits the role that Resto Druids have filled since at least WoTLK, it's time to reroll to the redesigned Mistweaver. The reason why all of our spells are such garbage compared to every other healing spec? It's all about Tranq. They said at Blizzcon (at least in one of the off camera dev chats that I read about) that they want Tranq to be stronger relative to how it is on live and stronger relative to other healing CDs because it is stationary. They then created a talent that reduces it to a 2 minute CD. That talent is going to obviously be 100% mandatory in a raid environment and something they have to balance around everyone having. The result is going to be - Tranq will be like 40%-50% of Druid healing and the only thing the spec is useful for. If you want to be a Tranq BoT with very weak baseline healing, stay Druid. If you want to be an actual raid/throughput healer, it's time to reroll Mistweaver or Holy Priest.

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They already confirmed at Blizzcon (maybe not on camera, but certainly to people 1 on 1 that was later tweeted out) that raid buffs were intended to be removed.

Always hyperbole with you...

Why do you always spin everything to be the worst possible. For example, when comparing spells you make sure to note when we have a CD (WG) and others don't but then go ahead and compare a spammable rejuvenation to spells that have CDs. Or you decide to ignore crit chance for Regrowth, is has always been tuned lower than comparable spells because of the increased crit chance. Or you lump in in Holy Word: Sanctify, but ignore Efflorescence which has yet to be tuned and could be a huge factor in that comparison. For fucks sake, you actually compared Holy Shock to Rejuvenation.... which has an 8 second cooldown and gets destroyed by a better comparison.. Swiftmend.

If you are going to do these comparisons, at least attempt to be more fair...

The changes to Lifebloom, going back to a CD reduction for Tranq, and rejuvenation's strength relative to Renew all seem a bit odd, but this is just a big data-mine that has been noted to be filled with lots of old/incorrect stuff etc..

I just don't get why you resort to so much hyperbole and nonsense "we are now the 4th best HoT healer"... come on, what are you smoking..... hard to take you seriously.