Perspective and truth

[dukrin]

To what extent do you think a persons perspective is essential in finding the truth? Can knowledge be gained objectively?

[Independent voter]

Everything is relative to the person.

Moral relativists, the people who believe in science, don't believe in good or evil for example, or love so they see things much differently than I do.

[Fencers]

To what extent do you think a persons perspective is essential in finding the truth?

Not at all necessary.

Can knowledge be gained objectively?

Yes, we do it all the time.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Everything is relative to the person.

Moral relativists, the people who believe in science, don't believe in good or evil for example, or love so they see things much differently than I do.

Yeah, I disagree, I think most things are relative to the person, but some things are very much like science, unfortunately while science is a tool that is, biased people are, and just like any other form of form of knowledge faith or otherwise, people can use any thing as a way to hide.

I have met just as many say rely on faith than sine if the most religious people I know, they also cherry pick and use what they know to HURT PEOPLE and look down on others also just as much.

[Pterodactylus]

Can knowledge be gained objectively?

Science, it works...bitches.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Science, it works...bitches.

Yeah but when Science meets human greed, stupidity and bias, it stops being objective knowledge and can become a tool that is manipulate and used to harm people. Just as important as it is to know science works, it is important to understand how or why.

Not a lot of people explain that well or only the parts they got from somewhere else, and arguments like global warming, and evolution those get tossed out the window, because someone think's they thought of something that 100s of scientist didn't because they don't understand it.

And if the inititial response to that is well SO WHAT, well "So What means" you have tons of functionally illiterate spouting off science they half understand and creating rifts that actually makes science more difficult to do.

People stop taking science seriously and the damage that can do will lead humanity right back to the dark ages.

[Pterodactylus]

Yeah but when Science meets human greed, stupidity and bias, it stops being objective knowledge and can become a tool that is manipulate and used to harm people. Just as important as it is to know science works, it is important to understand how or why.

That is not the fault of science though, that is the fault of the humans. Human stupidity and ignorance aside, the scientific method is an objective way to examine the universe.

- - - Updated - - -

Depends on what kind of "truth" you mean, it can have a lot of meanings, but in general, I think truth is a pretty objective thing. A subjective truth is not a truth, it is more of a badly worded opinion.

“Truth is singular. Its 'versions' are mistruths.”
― David Mitchell, Cloud Atlas

[Khaza-R]

Become omniscient then you can have total objective knowledge.

Until then all knowledge you obtain is subjective. Filtered through a lens of your own limited perspective.

[Doctor Amadeus]

That is not the fault of science though, that is the fault of the humans. Human stupidity and ignorance aside, the scientific method is an objective way to examine the universe.

Which is true, but often times, it isn't really as trendy to be aware of that, as it is to YouTube some shit, and believe whatever the sounds likely.

[Fencers]

Objective truth can not (magically) stop being objectively true.

That is not possible. If it were an objective truth, let's say the temperature at which water freezes in a controlled environment, it would be so regardless of one's opinion or perspective of. That is why it is an objective truth, literally, because that freezing point would be the same quantifiable outcome independent of an individual's attitude point of view.

It could not be true objectively otherwise. The notion that objective truth can become untrue by misuse or misunderstanding is nonsense.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Objective truth can not (magically) stop being objectively true.

That is not possible.

Of course it can't be, but you can take information out of context, or omit important pieces that may or may not be the works of other people, being presented by someone who doesn't understand or seeks to use whatever evidence in fragments to spin their own fairy tale about something, and it get's done ALL the time and it is getting worse!

[Fencers]

Of course it can't be

No. It can not.

You are talking about something else- which is not object truth.

[Pterodactylus]

Which is true, but often times, it isn't really as trendy to be aware of that, as it is to YouTube some shit, and believe whatever the sounds likely.

Well, it's estimated that only 1 in 4 in the USA are scientifically literate. This, in my opinion, is one of the biggest issues we face as a nation - scientific literacy (lack of it).

[Ryme]

Well, I mean, at some point you have to make assumptions on the physical world. First principles won't get you much further than being absolutely sure that in some way you do exist.

Beyond that, you have to assume a lot. Most of these assumptions are pretty harmless: the Universe exists, mathematical axioms etc the trouble lies in the bad assumptions such as what you're seeing is an accurate representation of what's going on. This has never been a formal assumption science takes, but it's something we all do naturally anyway.

With this assumption in place we tend to follow ideas that don't deviate too far from what we've already assumed to be true. Indeed, even in your brain there's a physical reaction that happens when you hear an idea that you don't like or that deviates too far from your previous assumptions. Your brain will literally try to block it out if it upsets you enough.

This issue is what I believe causes so much of the intellectual dishonesty in the media and online. So, in answer: perspective is very important in finding truth with any truth that has it's foundations in a poorly met assumption, e.g. what I can see is an accurate representation of what's happening.

[Deleted]

If it can be proven, but not disproven, it is the truth untill something new is proven and the old disproven. That is science for you.
The truth have nothing to do with moral or ethics - or religion for that matter.

[Doctor Amadeus]

No. It can not.

You are talking about something else- which is not object truth.

I am talking about objective truth, and I am talking about the tools which are used to determined that being wheeled by just as much bias as anything else, whether you agree or not.

I think there are a lot of examples of this throughout history.

[Slant]

To what extent do you think a persons perspective is essential in finding the truth? Can knowledge be gained objectively?

Knowledge and perspective are subjective by nature. Of course knowledge can be gained objectively, but once you've gained it, it is automatically tainted by subjective interpretations.

A person's perspective is essential to truthfinding, but it's rarely the whole of truth.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Well, it's estimated that only 1 in 4 in the USA are scientifically literate. This, in my opinion, is one of the biggest issues we face as a nation - scientific literacy (lack of it).

Ok now pause for a second and consider that for a moment, then consider how much of a buzzword science, or saying something is scientific, or a fact has become. Yet we are still a nation with nearly half the country comprised of one political party that denies global warming. Because some meteorologist said so.

[Pterodactylus]

Ok now pause for a second and consider that for a moment, then consider how much of a buzzword science, or saying something is scientific, or a fact has become. Yet we are still a nation with nearly half the country comprised of one political party that denies global warming. Because some meteorologist said so.

Please notice the second part of my comment. I have considered it. I think its a huge issue that we as a society need to remedy.

[Fencers]

I am talking about objective truth, and I am talking about the tools which are used to determined that being wheeled by just as much bias as anything else, whether you agree or not.

Objective truth is independent of what people do, interpret, use, feel or understand that truth. Or it would not be objective.

Something being objectively true (e.x 5*4=20) is totally separate thing from how that truth or fact may be incorrectly implemented by an individual(s). The former is not made untrue by the latter.