Hunters look like a complete mess...

[Kissthebaby]

I'd like to see headshot go baseline, with another talent in its place, as the rotation feels a bit bland without it. Also the skillshot element of headshot in its current implementation works differently to how you describe, what you would want is the opposite. You would want to be near-fully dumped every 10 seconds so as to not needlessly waste focus.
Whether you spend 20 focus or 100 focus on headshot, you hit for the same amount of damage. Using it at a higher amount of focus simply wastes focus, similar to the dynamic of never focus capping for the same reason.

This is dead wrong . It does do more damage from the more focus spent . Easy test to do is to take all trinkets off and unspec all talents that increase damge(for example the stacking ap buff) and compare 100 focus head shots to 20 focus head shots and you will see 100 focus headshots do about 17% more damage (non crits).With that said as of now it's better to use at low focus becuz 17% ish more damage isn't worth 80 more focus. This could change numbers wise ofc. Anyway my guess is you are seeing the same numbers from 20 and max headshots becuz of talents buffing the damage or something. Go try what I say and try to dispute, but 100 focus head shot does scale with focus on alpha, it's just not worth it atm

[Terminal Lance]

So it (HShot) does scale with Focus spent, just the numbers are skewed. I thought it weird an ability would consume all your resource and not increase damage (or healing) dealt. I mean I see what Proximity was trying to say, and I guess that could be a new ability mechanic, just a stupid one.

[Kwaai]

The thing with changing the chance to 100% though, is why bother having it then ? Personally I feel this whole route of adding damage multipliers all over the place was a bad way to design the spec.

If it's 100% at least you can justify it as ramp up. Though at that point it doesn't even make sense to tie marked to arcane. I think the mechanic of finding vulnerabilities in a target and then marking them can be fine. I'd prefer it be something like:

Arcane Shot
Has a chance to apply a stack of Vulnerable to the target. Stacks up to 6 times.

Mark. Instant, off gcd.
Consume 3 stacks of Vulnerable on the target and increase the damage of your next Aimed Shot by a lot.

Damage, proc chance, etc, would obviously would have to be balanced. However, it keeps the feel of finding vulnerabilities in a target and suddenly exploiting them. Assuming the proc chance is fairly low (maybe 30 seconds between big Aimed Shots?), Aimed doesn't have to hit like a wet noodle without it, so we can swap targets reasonably. It also adds gameplay around pooling stacks of vulnerable and waiting until the perfect time to strike (you know, like a sniper). Not sure whether or not the buffed Aimed Shots should be allowed on non Marked targets. I think it would be cool, and it would make certain types of target switching MM's niche, but who knows what actual encounters will be like.

Regardless, the current system of "Use ability A to enable ability B which causes debuff C which increases the damage of ability D" just seems super roundabout and it feels less like Marked Shot is a reward and more like a punishment. It also seems like it ruins target swapping for the sake of ruining target swapping. If a direct damage spec can't swap targets effectively, why take it over a direct damage class that can, or a dot class that gets a benefit out of multiple targets?

[Therris]

I love how MM is looking atm and SV so I am pleased that the two specs I like are coming together nicely, of course they could still use some work here and there but all in all I'm happy with the changes. I want to see BM (the spec I never liked) and see if it will be something I favor

[Deleted]

The thing with changing the chance to 100% though, is why bother having it then ? Personally I feel this whole route of adding damage multipliers all over the place was a bad way to design the spec.

Because you'd still have to weave in Arcanes/Multishots, especially in a multi-target fight. It's still the same mechanic, even if the proc is 100%... the only part that would change is the RNG part.. and in my opintion, the focus mechanic is extremely weak to RNG because we use ressource generators.

[Eapoe]

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. Every half decent hunter has been using some way of tracking focus. The entire hunter class has been about having the right amount of focus to use stuff on cd ever since they introduced focus.

Now there's just an added check to make sure you're at your lowest focus when you want to use headshot. I'm not seeing what the problem is here..

What I'm trying to say is that someone mentioned it requiring more skill, when in reality if you have something tracking it for you and essentially telling you when to use it, it is more of just a WA telling you what to do. That is kind of skill based, but more along the lines of taking orders. Not every 1/2 decent Hunter uses a way to track this either. You can, and I'm sure will, argue that they all should or they are bad, but I personally don't and I'm sure there are many others that also do not.

[threads]

This is dead wrong . It does do more damage from the more focus spent . Easy test to do is to take all trinkets off and unspec all talents that increase damge(for example the stacking ap buff) and compare 100 focus head shots to 20 focus head shots and you will see 100 focus headshots do about 17% more damage (non crits).With that said as of now it's better to use at low focus becuz 17% ish more damage isn't worth 80 more focus. This could change numbers wise ofc. Anyway my guess is you are seeing the same numbers from 20 and max headshots becuz of talents buffing the damage or something. Go try what I say and try to dispute, but 100 focus head shot does scale with focus on alpha, it's just not worth it atm

i'd rather it not scale with focus tbh

[Proximitynz]

This is dead wrong . It does do more damage from the more focus spent . Easy test to do is to take all trinkets off and unspec all talents that increase damge(for example the stacking ap buff) and compare 100 focus head shots to 20 focus head shots and you will see 100 focus headshots do about 17% more damage (non crits).With that said as of now it's better to use at low focus becuz 17% ish more damage isn't worth 80 more focus. This could change numbers wise ofc. Anyway my guess is you are seeing the same numbers from 20 and max headshots becuz of talents buffing the damage or something. Go try what I say and try to dispute, but 100 focus head shot does scale with focus on alpha, it's just not worth it atm

I'll retest tonight as for me, after extensive testing about two weeks ago, it definitely wasn't scaling with focus. Either at some point since then its started/was fixed, or is bugged right now and doesn't consistently.

[Kennyloggins]

The difference between 20 and 100 is like 15 or 20% damage last I checked.

[Kissthebaby]

The difference between 20 and 100 is like 15 or 20% damage last I checked.

Yea 17% ish is what I was getting but yeah doesn't matter. I haven't checked since when mm was first introduced on alpha though.

[The Stormbringer]

What's wrong with BM? It's like my favorite spec. I get to jump around all day, never stop moving unless I need to, trap things from range, negate light enrages or magic effects, stay mobile, deal decent damage, and if necessary I can battle rez, time warp, or tank trash that slips onto a healer or other DPS with ease.

[Kissthebaby]

What's wrong with BM? It's like my favorite spec. I get to jump around all day, never stop moving unless I need to, trap things from range, negate light enrages or magic effects, stay mobile, deal decent damage, and if necessary I can battle rez, time warp, or tank trash that slips onto a healer or other DPS with ease.

Ah yes that's all grand.


Bm hasn't been released on alpha yet , we r all hoping it's going to be a good spec with the worst looking artifact weapon out of all the specs to make us all mad. Thank you for your contribution and your opinion on the discussion though.

[Proximitynz]

Also after yesterday seeing Celestalon comment that he wasnt seeing any sub-rogue feedback at all, even though it was right there on the front page of the alpha forum, I linked both him and Andrew Chambers to the MM feedback thread. Received responses/acknowledgement from both of them, so at least if they ignore all the feedback, it's not because they don't know its there.

[Deleted]

Also after yesterday seeing Celestalon comment that he wasnt seeing any sub-rogue feedback at all, even though it was right there on the front page of the alpha forum, I linked both him and Andrew Chambers to the MM feedback thread. Received responses/acknowledgement from both of them, so at least if they ignore all the feedback, it's not because they don't know its there.

What are you talking about?

THey have allready posted that they will revision certain specs again based on feedback.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...-design-notes/

The feedback that we’ve gotten so far has lead us to make more significant revisions to several other classes and specs, that you’ll see in future builds, particularly Elemental, Enhancement, Marksmanship, Survival, and Blood.

[Deleted]

What are you talking about?

THey have allready posted that they will revision certain specs again based on feedback.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...-design-notes/

I believe you are doing without knowing, but your quote is missguiding and manipulative. It refers to talents specifically, not the specs as a whole.

It doesn't mean that they couldn't come tomorrow with a complete overhaul to any of them, but that particular quote refers to talents.

[Deleted]

I believe you are doing without knowing, but your quote is missguiding and manipulative. It refers to talents specifically, not the specs as a whole.

It doesn't mean that they couldn't come tomorrow with a complete overhaul to any of them, but that particular quote refers to talents.

True, but alot of talents tie into the core rotation and with the change of them, changes to non talents are also possible and needed.

What will not happen, of course, is that SV will suddenly again be a range spec.

[Proximitynz]

What are you talking about?

THey have allready posted that they will revision certain specs again based on feedback.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...-design-notes/

As mentioned, you're referring to a quote that only relates to talents, and dates back to when the mm thread was less than a single page long.

Sub rogues asking celestalon what was going on were asked if they were even posting feedback as he was seeing virtually none. Despite there being huge discussions constantly bumped to the top of the alpha feedback forum, he wasn't aware at all.

[Deleted]

MM looks like a mess. So many fucking procs and buffs/debuffs to look for.

[threads]

MM looks like a mess. So many fucking procs and buffs/debuffs to look for.

if you can't manage to spam arcane shot and hit marked when it lights up then idk maybe you have bigger problems

[Feanoro]

if you can't manage to spam arcane shot and hit marked when it lights up then idk maybe you have bigger problems

Several people have well-thought out reasons why the current design is at least questionable, have you read them? Gross oversimplification and insults don't exactly add to the conversation.