Leaked documents about Erdogan blackmailing the EU

[Skulltaker]

Is there any credibility to the source?

[Kuntantee]

The accession talks with Turkey have always been a farce anyway. And they have largely been intended for internal consumption; when they are starting they present to the people that Turkey has advanced as a secular society and when they fail they galvanize nationalism since the failure is presented to be entirely because of the EU's erratic demands. It's a win-win. If they can get some cash out of it, even better.

Turkish nationalism is far less prone to violence and certainly is much less widespread compared to Eastern Europe (including Balkans). Since entirety of Eastern Europe is in EU, I can not see how nationalism is a deciding factor.

[Skroe]

That's not their problem, they have the power.

But we have their admission into the EU ánd NATO-aid that allows them to shoot down Russian planes without consequences.
So if they want to play it hard let's see how it works out.

They were within their rights to shoot down a Russian Su-24.

The only regretful part of the ordeal is it precluded them (due to restraint showing) from shooting down a much newer Su-34 a week ago.

If the rest of Europe actually followed Turkey's lead and starting shooting down Russian aircraft that violated their air space, Russia may start thinking twice.

Pretty funny you'd let Russia do that without consequences though.

[Kuntantee]

WHere did I mention violence? It's not about violence it's about winning votes. You deny that nationalistic rhetoric is a beloved populist way to get reelected?

The only problem with nationalism (other than being a complete farce as an ideology) is making people act violent. A certain level nationalist rhetoric is present in all countries, sometimes in the form of patriotism but the motivations and the target is the same. I doubt it's completely incompatible with being "European".

By the way, I totally agree about "internal consumption" part. It is indeed a bait for the masses.

[Rukh]

Got a reputable source?

quick edit: I hadn't heard of this site before, but any site that's tagline is "Given a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero" doesn't give the impression of thorough fact checking and discernment.

[Skroe]

Really the shocking thing isn't that he did it, it's that the response will never be adequate because hard politics are unbecoming of "civilized" Europe. When someone plays hard, do him the courtesy to play hard as well.

Perfectly put.

You know this kind of reminds me of how Europe played softball with Tsipras stunts in Greece, until the last second of the last minute, when they said "okay, then default", and over night Tsipras became... oddly, essentiall an EU agent in Greece and did almost everything they wanted? Because he had no negotiating position other than what the EU allowed him to have for that entire period of drama?

Europe should be less afraid to throw it's weight and power around. It's okay to use your size to step on bad actors seeking to extort you. It doesn't make Europe bad people. It makes them not-suckers.

[Skroe]

THe worst part is that their playing soft deluded the Greek people in the first place in believing there was such a thing as a possibility to get a better deal.

Agreed. It really made it worse for them, along with the entire world. The entire period of uncertainty, not to mention the societal destabilization in Greece, could have been avoided.

[Adarian]

anyone else think it's time to retake Constantinople?

[Shadowmelded]

Perfectly put.

You know this kind of reminds me of how Europe played softball with Tsipras stunts in Greece, until the last second of the last minute, when they said "okay, then default", and over night Tsipras became... oddly, essentiall an EU agent in Greece and did almost everything they wanted? Because he had no negotiating position other than what the EU allowed him to have for that entire period of drama?

Europe should be less afraid to throw it's weight and power around. It's okay to use your size to step on bad actors seeking to extort you. It doesn't make Europe bad people. It makes them not-suckers.

The Greek situation was kind of different though given our cultural and historical ties, plus the fact that they're already in the EU. I don't suspect Turkey will receive the same kind of accommodation.

[Deleted]

Greek Politicians threatened to flood Europe with foreigners also. But I guess we are ignoring this now.

[Forogil]

Got a reputable source?

quick edit: I hadn't heard of this site before, but any site that's tagline is "Given a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero" doesn't give the impression of thorough fact checking and discernment.

It linked to a Greece news-source that seemed more credible - but that text is all Greek to me (except the leaked documents):
http://www.euro2day.gr/news/economy/...s-elladas.html

[Shadowmelded]

The lack of a clear position distinctly hurt Turkey. The way Greece was treated since 2009 has not in any way "accommodated Greece"; it has accommodated French and German banking interests. If there was a clear and hardline, either to help or to evict, it would have been better for Greece either way. THere is a time for soft policies but that time is never when there is a crisis. The problem is, Europe has NO leadership (no, not even Merkel, she is just a tiny bit stronger than the rest).

I was pretty much talking about just the crisis, not what lead up to it.

[Kallisto]

anyone else think it's time to retake Constantinople?

No one outside of Golden Dawn morons think that. The city and Turkish Thrace has about the same population as Greece and Cyprus combined.

[Grimfrost]

I am sooo suprised (not) we should just close our borders and kick the bad apples out already, also kick out the economic immigrants

[Azgraal]

In older times, blackmail such as that would have ment war. Nice how uncivilized people are abusing the civilized countries like this...

That's the main issue here in Europe now. We try our darndest to play fair, and slap the hands of those members who don't. Other countries don't play fair and are more than OK with exploiting us. And yet we stand still, buttcheeks spread wide, scared of being called intolerant or racists.

- - - Updated - - -

I am sooo suprised (not) we should just close our borders and kick the bad apples out already, also kick out the economic immigrants

This. People who genuinely are migrating scared for their lives would gladly settle down in the first country they could find that is at peace, not going all the way to the heart of Europe were every nobody and their family get every luxury even some european citizens are denied.

[Kasierith]

Looks like Turkey is picking up how the United States negotiates. It's surprising how much people focus on Russia's more evidently grandstanding activities when there's a country far more hostile towards the EU making far more significant movements to gain influence in the region.

[Damajin]

Got a reputable source?

quick edit: I hadn't heard of this site before, but any site that's tagline is "Given a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero" doesn't give the impression of thorough fact checking and discernment.

Zerohedge is a top alternative news website. They report on things that ‘reputable’ media is paid not to report.

[Deleted]

I kinda get tired of the EU soft leadership. What the fuck is wrong with these people, if this shit keeps up everyone will fuck with Europe and in 100 years there will be no Europe..
Where are the leaders that put a fist in the table and shout wake the fuck up already.


Lets not vote for the far right so we can have all the multicultural looneys escaping mental asylums and roaming free, while erdogan spits on us.
These are all illegal immigrants, close all borders! Theres no need to negotiate with anyone, close the fucking border and thats it. Everyone should be responsible for their actions, these economic migrants knew they were trespassing illegaly.

[Nadiru]

Zerohedge is a top alternative news website. They report on things that ‘reputable’ media is paid not to report.

Zerohedge is also bipolar as fuck. It hails the Russian-Chinese entente as a viable contender to the American-led liberal international order while simultaneously reporting on debt dynamics within China that are signalling an incoming economic apocalypse.

[Deleted]

The EU is weak and Turkey finds itself in a very powerful position here.
Erdogan will use this to pressure the EU to get everything he wants and all the politicians here can do is smile and nod...

The entire reason for this situation is the weak leadership in both the EU as in the member states themselves. I dread to think what will happen to our continent in the coming years.