[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[spychalski]

Pretty decent buff to Fire's aoe. Dragon's Breath will hit like a truck and Flamestrike is a bit better now too. Maybe that Dragon's Breath legendary might not be so bad after all.

Cauterizing Blink nerfed to 5% heal per rank. I personally think it's a bit low but will see how it goes in testing. It needed changing though, the 54% heal was way too strong.

And looks like they actually listened (finally) about Scorched Earth. Wonder how high the speed increase will stack though. That might be interesting with the Scorch legendary, we'd be skipping around pretty fast if it stacks high enough.

Still no change to Blast Furnace numbers or the reportedly low dps tuning that people are reporting. Although, some classes did get a bit nerfed. This build looked mostly like talent restructuring more than anything.

DB damage scaling was a hotfix, this was already live. Scorch change is not very good. I'd honestly hope for movement speed AND something else, like a target debuff to increase damage taken, or higher crit chance, anything. Scorch damage barely makes it usable, especially with proper floes usage.

I hope we get raid testing soon... I really want to see how this scales.

[TheWorkingTitle]

I got excited when I read Scorched Earth got changed but it still sounds pretty terrible. The duration on it would have to last a decent amount of time, because a +5% movement boost that only stacks to 5 is still straight up worse than the perk that fire has for it now.

My sentiments as well. Another case of them taking our things away and then giving them back in an inferior way.

[pixelated senpai]

At what number of targets should I be using flamestrike over pyroblast?

4+ maybe? i would think PF would suffice for 3 targets and less for aoe/cleave

[Djriff]

4+ maybe? i would think PF would suffice for 3 targets and less for aoe/cleave

Alright, i'm just a bit confused, never used it as fire before so i feel weird doing so now.

[Deleted]

Without tuning done and simulations you won't know for sure. But, we do have history that tells us that kind of spell usually needs at least 3. If I recall correctly back in Cata we had to wait for 5 targets?

[nickseng]

Well, if you go with the numbers now, Pyro does 330% SP, while Flamestrike does 180%. That suggests that at 2 targets, Flamestrike is more worth is over Pyro.

[Deleted]

Well, if you go with the numbers now, Pyro does 330% SP, while Flamestrike does 180%. That suggests that at 2 targets, Flamestrike is more worth is over Pyro.

Now that's why theorycrafting is hard when its done via napkin math or wrong formulation instead of right formulation or right simulation. Flamestrike has a cast time. Also, Pyro not being used might prevent other Pyros not being used (that was a possible example, not an actual proof here) and in general you can't just do napkin math on single spells and conclude for the entire spec because you have to look at the whole package.

[Summer]

Now that's why theorycrafting is hard when its done via napkin math or wrong formulation instead of right formulation or right simulation. Flamestrike has a cast time. Also, Pyro not being used might prevent other Pyros not being used (that was a possible example, not an actual proof here) and in general you can't just do napkin math on single spells and conclude for the entire spec because you have to look at the whole package.

Flamestrike is instant cast with a hot streak proc......

[Deleted]

Flamestrike is instant cast with a hot streak proc......

That's besides the point, the actual mechanical information in that post were just examples. The point was that you can't compare individual spells just like that. Even the best theorycrafters have failed when doing incomplete total formulation; trying to do napkin formulation based on two spells only is a disaster.

[Rothex]

I got excited when I read Scorched Earth got changed but it still sounds pretty terrible. The duration on it would have to last a decent amount of time, because a +5% movement boost that only stacks to 5 is still straight up worse than the perk that fire has for it now.

Yeah agreed Now we can Scorch once for 30% movement, then we'll have to Scorch 5 times for 25% movement. Only one person seems to have mentioned it so far in the official beta Fire thread, let's just hope more people give feedback about it and maybe it'll change again.

Although, does anyone know how long the movement speed buff actually lasts for? I tried digging through the build data but couldn't find anything.

[Deleted]

Traditionally AoE has been balanced to be effective from 3 targets onwards. I don't know if they ever changed this, but I remember it being that way.

[Deleted]

Traditionally AoE has been balanced to be effective from 3 targets onwards. I don't know if they ever changed this, but I remember it being that way.

It depends on the spell, rotation, spec. 3 was usual but also 4 and 5. It may rarely be more if the spell is able to hit the maximum targets (is it still 20?) but it's weak on 1.

[Djriff]

Well mainly I asked when to use it over an instant Pyroblast. I've been using it at 3+ targets and haven't noticed a dip in my DPS. However I feel atm that during our combustion uptime it's important to spam Pyroblast/Phoenix to build up some huge burst. Also helps that Phoenix is aoe.

[Komman]

Reminder: Flamestrike is already 180% on live. This is only a tooltip change to reflect the hotfix applied on July 20th, 2015:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/19818494/#july20


Therefore, nothing has changed on beta in terms of their priority.

[Profal]

Well mainly I asked when to use it over an instant Pyroblast. I've been using it at 3+ targets and haven't noticed a dip in my DPS. However I feel atm that during our combustion uptime it's important to spam Pyroblast/Phoenix to build up some huge burst. Also helps that Phoenix is aoe.

My guess would be at 3 - 4 + targets, which would be fairly normal outside of a 'cleave' spec like frost's ice lances. We'll see as more tuning occurs and the theorycrafters settle on their numbers.

[Appelgren]

Anyone tried fire mage in pvp? Is it going to trumph frost for once?

[Deleted]

Anyone tried fire mage in pvp? Is it going to trumph frost for once?

It's really hard to judge as PvP is a balancing clusterfuck right now. In the current, horrendously balanced state that PvP is in (Prot Paladins easily 1v3ing for example) Fire Mages aren't a bad choice because of their high mobility due to lots of instant casts. I've heard many complain about Frost in PvP but haven't tried it myself. But from what I've heard it's not really good. Too slow for the current state of PvP.

[qtBlackGandolf]

Anyone tried fire mage in pvp? Is it going to trumph frost for once?

I have about 10 hours of BG spamming as fire, mostly up until the recent bug that does not allow you to rez in a BG. I have only queued 3s for a couple hours as fire (auto-spread ignite makes DB--> poly chains fail often). Fire feels really fun in BGs and okay for 3s.

Flamecannon in BGs is really fun when paired with Flare up and Flame on. You get to essentially turret insta casts the whole time for nice ignite spreads. In general it allows me to be top damage in most games without really playing too well. But yes, nothing is tuned properly so this all could change easily.

[Appelgren]

It's really hard to judge as PvP is a balancing clusterfuck right now. In the current, horrendously balanced state that PvP is in (Prot Paladins easily 1v3ing for example) Fire Mages aren't a bad choice because of their high mobility due to lots of instant casts. I've heard many complain about Frost in PvP but haven't tried it myself. But from what I've heard it's not really good. Too slow for the current state of PvP.

I have about 10 hours of BG spamming as fire, mostly up until the recent bug that does not allow you to rez in a BG. I have only queued 3s for a couple hours as fire (auto-spread ignite makes DB--> poly chains fail often). Fire feels really fun in BGs and okay for 3s.

Flamecannon in BGs is really fun when paired with Flare up and Flame on. You get to essentially turret insta casts the whole time for nice ignite spreads. In general it allows me to be top damage in most games without really playing too well. But yes, nothing is tuned properly so this all could change easily.

Thanks for the replies. Looking forward to testing it myself when its time!

[tru]

Ive always wanted to play fire but the required crit stance has always steered me away. I suffered through it with fury war and gearing up into entry raids for WoD was one of the most painful unrewarding experiences ive had in wow.

To those in beta or in general if ppl know, in Legion is Crit still pretty much a required stat for the spec to function? Thats been so much of a turn off for me anymore. Looking for a different out but I don't want to go through the same thing again.