Tanking Mythic Xhul Advice

[Deleted]

Hey guys just looking for some tips and tricks on tanking Xhul. I'm the tank who take void strike and Withering Gaze but I feel I take a lot of damage, more than I should to the point where I call externals each Gaze to help out. I was hoping for some advice on whether I should go LoV/wue OR perhaps swap in ACP for LoV. Is unglyphing DP wise? I really don't know what I'm looking for tbh, we're 130+ wipes in and I'm just trying to help by bettering myself. We do 3-tank this encounter.

[penkek]

Hey,

If you want to maximize survivability I would recommend this setup:
Holy Avenger + Holy Shield
WuE+LoV, the reason for this is that LoV will top you back up if you dink low, and WuE reduces the damage, for overall DTPS reduction ACP + WUE might be better but for survivavability you should defintely run LoV, you'll also be adding many damage to the Imps which is very useful on that fight.

You should also unglyph DP, the void strikes aren't too big of a problem but the Withering Gaze hits like a truck, I'd recommend you to use Divine Protection OR an external every withering gaze. Use Guardian of the Ancient Kings/ Ardent Defender whenever you feel like you really need it. Also consider using Shieldtronic shield instead of Healing Tonic on this fight.

Furthermore minor glyping focussed wrath might be useful if your stuns aren't required on the imps so you're not DR'ing them.

Could you also link some of your logs? Maybe I can see anything that will help you out.

[sage]

Hey guys just looking for some tips and tricks on tanking Xhul. I'm the tank who take void strike and Withering Gaze but I feel I take a lot of damage, more than I should to the point where I call externals each Gaze to help out. I was hoping for some advice on whether I should go LoV/wue OR perhaps swap in ACP for LoV. Is unglyphing DP wise? I really don't know what I'm looking for tbh, we're 130+ wipes in and I'm just trying to help by bettering myself. We do 3-tank this encounter.

Unglyph DP and use it for Gazes as penkek said.

I'm not sure how beneficial Holy shield is going to be when tanking Omnus - gaze can't be blocked, so the talent does very little imo. Run seraphim/HA instead. (as long as you know how to play seraphim!)

WuE+LoV is the way to go here, imo.

I am assuming this is you: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

6 potions used all night - 1 was strength? prepotting is good!

Might want to consider mastery on weapon, blackrock is pretty meh.

All in all, there is just a lot of tank damage on this fight. Press buttons and wait for your raid to stop exploding eachother. hooray!

[Deleted]

May I ask what you use three tanks for? Really you want as much dps as possible, all the tank damage is front loaded into the first half of the fight. Once your adds are dead the tanks can almost afk on the boss and just taunt every few seconds.

I would strongly advice taking Unbreakable Spirit and Unglyph DP. I used HS with LoV/ACP for progression but I realise now it may have not been the best choice.
WuE calcuates its damage reduction it gives you on the amount of HP you would be on AFTER you recieved the hit. For example. You have 500k HP, your WuE has a 20% reduction and you get hit for 250k.

As this 250k would bring you to 50% hp, the WuE will actually absorb 10% of the 250k because you are at 50% hp after the hit it gives you 50% of its max effectiveness so it will actually only hit you for 225k hp instead. Its pretty good for spikey incoming damage. As is LoV, plus it does so much damage on Xhul that you can have problems ripping threat from the wrong add

You can take a Void Strike with no CD's assuming you are full hp and you are not getting hit by your add channel. Make sure you have an absorb from your 4p and SotR up so you dont get wombo-combo'd by your add's melee aswell.

You want your CD's for the add cast. Especially if you tank the green one.

I always alternate like this: DP, Guardian, DP, AD, DP, Ring (I think it comes off cd here from pull?), DP, External, DP, etc etc etc. If you have more channels on you than this then just keep asking for externals inbetween DP and your own CD's. Always be aware if you are going to get hit by a Void Strike and an add channel at the same time. Basically weave in a DP every other channel on you. With a small amount of luck you can have a 4p absorb for every tick of the purple channel

Once your add is dead the boss is almost irrelevant unless you are sitting in the last phase for too long, but by then all your CD's will be back anyway, youll have HA for massive SotR uptime when its needed.

As Penkek said, post logs!

[penkek]

Just mentioned HS for the sake of keeping it easy if he's struggling on Xhul it will probably be better in his case to play a more easy talent, second is that you can block Void Strike I believe? It's not a lot but might be enough to stop a lethal combo.

Also there's no need for 3-tanking at all, can you explain what the reason is?

[Deleted]

Thanks for all the great advice so far. The combat logs above are mine yes thank you for linking them!
We 3 tank the fight because on the first 2 nights of progression one of the big issues were the tanks getting one shotted suddenly. I do put this down to lack of research and we sort of went into the fight blindly. We then brought in the 3rd tank and most issues were fixed. I feel confident now I could 2 tank this fight if I had a good partner who could call for externals when needed. So essentially we 3-tank because progress forced us to and we're too scared to go back. I'd love if you guys could give me the confidance to argue the case. I've only been tanking this tier and I love it but I know I have lots to learn. Is a prot paladin strong enough to tank fel flurry/fel strike?

Thank you so damn much!

[OrcinusDrake]

The problem with Holy Shield is that it's RNG, so you have to go into every combo assuming that you won't make the block and use defensives accordingly - then if you do block it's a nice bonus. Whereas Seraphim will always chips off the same small amount off of the combo giving you reliability. So it ends up as DP - Sera - DP - Sera, using your other CDs reactively depending on if you have absorbs/full health/class trink available before each strike. I also hit WoG far more than I do on any other fight.

[penkek]

The problem with Holy Shield is that it's RNG, so you have to go into every combo assuming that you won't make the block and use defensives accordingly - then if you do block it's a nice bonus. Whereas Seraphim will always chips off the same small amount off of the combo giving you reliability. So it ends up as DP - Sera - DP - Sera, using your other CDs reactively depending on if you have absorbs/full health/class trink available before each strike. I also hit WoG far more than I do on any other fight.

HS is always up tho, playing Seraph properly could leave you with Seraph being down and weaker then HS, but yes you're right but I also weighted the fact that it might be difficult for the player to play seraph to 49% uptime while executing the mechanics properly.

For getting oneshotted, you're not using a CD on every miniboss ability then, or there is no way you're being oneshotted.

[Jazende]

HS is not always up. HS is up at the same rate as your block chance. When Seraphim is down you are *as* weak as you are when running with HS because you can *not* rely on HS to reduce the damage for you.

Don't be hyperbolic, you don't need 50% uptime on Seraphim to not die. Exact opposite instead. You need to use Seraphim when the situation calls for it instead of blindly using it, ignoring ShotR or WoG because it will be off cooldown soon and you might lose uptime.

I can't speak for Vakellion tanking, but for Omnus you really only have 1 dangerous strike (3rd stack of Withering Gaze) and 2 medium dangerous strikes (Void Strike and 2nd stack of Withering Gaze). Being aware of your uptime on LoV aswell as using cooldowns around this will put you in a position where you will not die.

As a sidenote, I don't see a try long enough yet, but between ring (or Rallying Cry and WuE) and AD you can take 2 empowered singularities yourself, should the need arise.

[penkek]

Indeed you don't need 50% uptime on Seraph to die, but it's real big fat shame if you don't line it with ring/HA or if you only get it off 3 times per 2mins. And once again like I said, Seraph requires more attention and a higher attention for a case like this where we're talking about the tanks staying alive, I think taking the pressure off by playing something passive such as HS (although indeed RNG) allows for the player to have more focus on using cds for mentioned dangerous strikes.

Also I believe you cannot block the strike if you don't have HS? I'm not sure on that tho. What I'm saying is that a person that plays Seraph imperfectly on Xhul will spike harder then someone that plays decent with Holy Shield on Xhul. He should be focussing on mechanics and if he's getting "one-shot" on Xhul then I don't think Seraph is the right choice for him on that fight.

Just calling a pure black/white on talents what's the "best" is silly. There's different situations and in this case I feel like a better result can be accomplished by taking HS just because it's easier to play.

EDIT: Talking about not needing 50% uptime on Seraph for a bit more, if you keep failing to put Seraph up at the right moment there is a big survivability and DPS penalty. Sure you can use Seraph purely defensively but this is not optimal, even far from it. Advocating that Seraph should be less then almost perfect uptime in a situation where there's already Valor upgrades, and tanks rings that have a immense impact on a Prot Pala with ring+seraph+HA, is in my opinion a bad thing. You should aim to play Seraph getting it up INSTANTLY when the CD comes up. Or do you play it on Manno and only use it there when the Glaive Combo comes in? Would like to hear your opinion on this.

[Adramelch]

Hijacking the thread a bit, but what setup would you advise for a Prot Pally tanking Akkelion? Is unglyphed DP worth it for the Flurry (since it's fire damage? Also what combination of trinkets would you suggest for survivability?

[OrcinusDrake]

Definitely unglyphed, no question.
I'd recommend WUE + LoV for survival.
You may consider Focused shield/not using LoV if you can't manage threat, but playing around with RF will be the better choice if you can manage.
Should be able to fit in final wrath. Other glyphs might be hand of sac, consecrator or word of glory. Focused wrath only if you're messing up the stun rotation.

Edit: And yeah when I do Xhul, I use Seraphim purely defensively. On mannaroth I use it purely offensively.

[penkek]

Definitely unglyphed, no question.
I'd recommend WUE + LoV for survival.
You may consider Focused shield/not using LoV if you can't manage threat, but playing around with RF will be the better choice if you can manage.
Should be able to fit in final wrath. Other glyphs might be hand of sac, consecrator or word of glory. Focused wrath only if you're messing up the stun rotation.

Just have a RF/RF cancelaura that's what I do and it has worked fine, there is no reason to drop your DPS by 40k just because your co-tank cant handle it, and there's also no reason to stubbornly wipe your raid 50% of the time because you overaggro. What I did on progress was hold ring at start, then when the green add spawns you use ring taunt the add do full burst on it, then you can taunt the add again when that taunt wears off cancel RF till void add has been up for quite a bad (30-ish) seconds. Playing Focussed Shield is a giant DPS loss that will actually reduce the chances of the raid killing boss. There are scenarios where you can imagine the extra DPS of a unglyphed AS doing enough damage to make a imp get one cast less through. Or something like that. Also not using LoV is the same only worse, you sacrifice so much DPS and perhaps even survivability for something that is easily neglected by just having a cancelaura...

Anzu+LoV does more damage if you're not getting burst down. And still provides decent survivability.

[Lysozyme]

Also I believe you cannot block the strike if you don't have HS? I'm not sure on that tho. What I'm saying is that a person that plays Seraph imperfectly on Xhul will spike harder then someone that plays decent with Holy Shield on Xhul. He should be focussing on mechanics and if he's getting "one-shot" on Xhul then I don't think Seraph is the right choice for him on that fight.

You're right, you can't block it without HS. But what if you don't block it even when you do have HS? It's only a chance to block. You can't not use CDs because you might block it, because then you might die.

[penkek]

You're right, you can't block it without HS. But what if you don't block it even when you do have HS? It's only a chance to block. You can't not use CDs because you might block it, because then you might die.

If he uses proper CDs it doesnt matter that much if he doesnt block it. Blocking it is just extra, if you're struggling on Xhul at this point in the xpac it's better to go HS so you can fully focus on the mechanics, that's all I'm saying if the OP feels comfortable playing Seraph and knows he can do it well go for it. But in this case I'd say HS just to make the gameplay easier. Not because it's the best, he should focus on using his owns CD's and calling for externals pretty much leaving nothing uncovered.

[Lysozyme]

I agree that it's easier to not use seraphim, because it adds in an extra layer of management. It's not easier in the sense that you gain survivability through less effort; it's easier in the sense that you have worse survivability but don't put any effort into it. The reason why Holy Shield is superior to Seraphim for survivability is because you have higher SotR uptime; this does as nothing against the life threatening damage on Xhul, and so Holy Shield is inferior to Seraphim on Xhul. Using Holy Shield on Xhul is like taking the Seraphim talent, and then not pressing the button, with a chance that you might get lucky and take less damage than you otherwise would.

[penkek]

Feel like we're just repeating the same words over and over, what you say is true, but in this case I think the chance of killing the boss will go up when OP can just dedicate all his focus to calling externals and using his personal CDs properly, that is what will make him live, not Seraph VS Holy Shield.

[Lysozyme]

I agree that it's easier to not use seraphim, because it adds in an extra layer of management. It's not easier--

just kidding.

Yeah I guess if you're going to effectively take seraphim and not use it, you might as well take holy shield for extra passive damage

[sexybeast]

on trinkets for xhul-
after finally being able to use LoV last night (after 10 previous kills) LoV does not compair in terms of survivability when pitted against WuE/AcP.

I ran WuE and mythic WF LoV and whilst my damage done was silly good I always felt slightly at risk. I guess if you were to play normal LoV it would be better for survival (mythic overheals for so damn much each time it procs)
when learning the fight and for the sake of you not having to worry about your RF I'd 100% recommend playing AcP and WuE.

one note on it though if you are struggling with add interrupts (which you really shouldn't be doing this late into a tier) if you can manage LoV it just blows the adds up if you can get it to proc at the right times and the less time the adds are up the less time they can possibly stand there casting.

[penkek]

on trinkets for xhul-
after finally being able to use LoV last night (after 10 previous kills) LoV does not compair in terms of survivability when pitted against WuE/AcP.

I ran WuE and mythic WF LoV and whilst my damage done was silly good I always felt slightly at risk. I guess if you were to play normal LoV it would be better for survival (mythic overheals for so damn much each time it procs)
when learning the fight and for the sake of you not having to worry about your RF I'd 100% recommend playing AcP and WuE.

one note on it though if you are struggling with add interrupts (which you really shouldn't be doing this late into a tier) if you can manage LoV it just blows the adds up if you can get it to proc at the right times and the less time the adds are up the less time they can possibly stand there casting.

I think we can safely assume that OP probably has a Heroic Trinket, the Heroic Trinket proccing with the resolve from a burst combo will put him at 100% HP again, allowing him to have more reaction time if he needs to use something like Ardent Defender. He's obviously not using a Mythic WF LoV. Especially since you can't block the gaze I highly doubt Plume/WuE is better for SURVIVABILITY, so surviving the burst then WUE/LOV. LoV pops you back and gives you more reaction time.