Help me pick better GPU please, thanks!

[apdc05]

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 G1 Gaming GDDR5 Pcie Video Graphics Card, 4GB

http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GeFor...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

OR

EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB FTW+

http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Installed...A2ZGHS2RZ50HGZ

I casually play WoW, dont stream, and dont render videos, etc and just wanting advice which is better in your opinion, any recommendations are appreciated.

[Kagthul]

A better GPU would be an R9 390 of your choice.

[Fascinate]

Do you play any other games? 970 is really massive overkill for a game like WoW. That said i prefer the asus strix version over either of those:

http://www.amazon.com/GeForce-Overcl.../dp/B00NJ9BJ8G

If WoW is basically your main game a gtx 950 is more than enough for ya:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B013WQC9Z2/?tag=pcpapi-20

[Vash The Stampede]

Definitely the R9 390. But why a 970 for a game like WoW?

[Fascinate]

Definitely the R9 390. But why a 970 for a game like WoW?

What? A 390 is fine but a 970 isn't? They compete in the same bracket and are priced nearly identical lol.

But like you said a 970/390 is complete overkill, a 950 is even overkill but its a solid entry level gaming card.

[Blackmist]

A 970 is a 970 is a 970. Nobody cares about minute 1-2% unreproducible differences.

Same goes for the R9 390. Some games are faster on AMD, some on nVidia. Game patches and driver tweaks can swap them at any moment. It matters not when the difference is a couple of percent.

[Artorius]

What? A 390 is fine but a 970 isn't? They compete in the same bracket and are priced nearly identical lol.

Yes. A 390 is fine but the 970 isn't.

The 390 has better dx12 performance gains with asynchronous shading, scales better with higher resolutions, has lower overhead for VR, will age better, is better at everything that is not related to games because of better computing performance and also does perform exactly the same if not better at the default 1080p@DX11 baseline.

The only, only, thing the 970 has going for it against the 390 is its higher efficiency but its importance is debatable because using a Nvidia card will make your CPU consume more power and the difference from the wall is not exactly groundbreaking either.

I am probably supposed to say "if OP wants to buy a card from Nvidia, buy a 950 and wait for Pascal", but rumors are saying that Pascal won't have proper asynchronous compute either so sincerely speaking I don't know if I even can recommend Nvidia.

[Kagthul]

What? A 390 is fine but a 970 isn't? They compete in the same bracket and are priced nearly identical lol.

But like you said a 970/390 is complete overkill, a 950 is even overkill but its a solid entry level gaming card.

As of the Crimson Drivers, the 390 is basically 5-15% faster than the 970 across the board. And more future proof, as they support the full suite of DX12 features, most notably Asynch Compute, which can add substantial perormance.

- - - Updated - - -

A 970 is a 970 is a 970. Nobody cares about minute 1-2% unreproducible differences.
.

Uhh, yeahno. The various coolers and stock overclocks can make up to a 10% performance difference. Some of the EVGA and Zotac cards have a 25% base overclock (250 mhz overclock). Not all 970s are created equally.

[Fascinate]

Yes. A 390 is fine but the 970 isn't.

The 390 has better dx12 performance gains with asynchronous shading, scales better with higher resolutions, has lower overhead for VR, will age better, is better at everything that is not related to games because of better computing performance and also does perform exactly the same if not better at the default 1080p@DX11 baseline.

The only, only, thing the 970 has going for it against the 390 is its higher efficiency but its importance is debatable because using a Nvidia card will make your CPU consume more power and the difference from the wall is not exactly groundbreaking either.

I am probably supposed to say "if OP wants to buy a card from Nvidia, buy a 950 and wait for Pascal", but rumors are saying that Pascal won't have proper asynchronous compute either so sincerely speaking I don't know if I even can recommend Nvidia.

You seem to be missing a few pieces of key info. Have you ever heard of nvidia gameworks? I am not saying i agree with this business model, but in fact nvidia does work closely with game devs to produce a better quality of gameplay than AMD can.

Evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15wOp7_dD8E

I understand you are banking on dx12 features to save AMD in this current gen, but how about the current games that are out and playable? These two cards are very close to each other in performance in the same price bracket, they trade blows depending on the game. I dont feel that blindly suggesting a 390 over a 970 is a good call, simply because we dont know what dx12 has to bring. In fact if you look at some titles (mmo's in particular) the 970 is leaps and bounds ahead of the 390.

The 390 is a good card for the money, but so is the 970. It all depends on what games you play and i think that gets overlooked on this forum too much.

[mrgreenthump]

nvidia does work closely with game devs to produce a better quality of gameplay than AMD can.

*Nvidia works with game devs to force them to make idiotic design choices that promote Nvidia cards.

simply because we dont know what dx12 has to bring

We know exactly what DX12 can bring. We just don't know how badly Gameworks titles fuck it up each time.

[Barnabas]

I wouldn't spend that much money on any gpu out now. This summer it will be regret city.

[Fascinate]

*Nvidia works with game devs to force them to make idiotic design choices that promote Nvidia cards.



We know exactly what DX12 can bring. We just don't know how badly Gameworks titles fuck it up each time.

Did i say i agreed with this? Of course not, but nvidia has the money and the ties to get it done. The world sometimes does not work the way we want it too, but we at least have to have some perspective on how it does when informing people on the matter.

[Evildeffy]

Did i say i agreed with this? Of course not, but nvidia has the money and the ties to get it done. The world sometimes does not work the way we want it too, but we at least have to have some perspective on how it does when informing people on the matter.

Actually GameWorks is a hated entity by most of the devs in this world... barring the guy who made Project Cars..

The fact is that nVidia endorsement is a thing devs want to make their game a success and reduce costs.
However DX12 is, without question, the future of current Windows gaming as it will also share XBox One fundamentals.

Thus not at any point would a GTX 970 be recommended over an R9 390 because it's simply outclassed.

You mentioned some games are leaps and bounds ahead with the GTX 970 vs. R9 390.. then let me ask you which games those are and how relevant they are.
WoW, as big as it is for an MMO, is f.ex. not a relevant entity for a card in that performance bracket..

Following up on that as AMD is pushing, and very much succeeding, in Open Source progress and it's GPUOpen project nVidia is running scared.
This due to the simple fact that any developer whom wants to succeed and progress with all the bad rep nVidia has gotten with GameWorks is very much considering abandoning it all together for something that won't require selling your soul to the devil.

As a proof of nVidia running scared they made the culprit which they used as a weapon (and some others) Open Source on GitHub.
NVIDIA Releases HairWorks, Volumetric Lightning and FaceWorks Source Code on GitHub – HBAO+ To Be Added Soon

So if you combine the crap that GameWorks represented in ruining not just AMD's performance but their previous generation of cards as well along with the fact that nVidia blackboxed the whole thing with closed source vs. a system that performs inherently better with the future go-to API along with full open source disclosure AND not the inherent rep that came with the GameWorks titles that screwed so many over ... are you really surprised?

No-one says the GTX 970 is a terrible card, they are saying with the options available right now it's a worse choice than the R9 390.
And before it's asked why:
In relevant high end games they perform equally to better than the GTX 970 on a 1080p resolution.
In older games the FPS of both are so high that it reaches 3 digits making it useless to judge them apart as you won't have a monitor that can keep up.
In higher resolution high end games the 970 is thrashed by the R9 390, the 970 simply doesn't stand a chance.
Yes in SOME games the 970 can run some things smoother due to GameWorks being a dick to AMD and older Kepler based cards.
However to gain that bonus in a low amount of games you sacrifice DX12 performance enhancement capabilities which are present on the card for free.

And before you state "Well DX12 isn't here yet!" or "We don't know what DX12 will bring!" ... well you'd be wrong on both accounts.
Microsoft themselves have stated that DX12 adoption rate is so much faster than any DX adoption before it.
The DX12 API is also built and brought out... it doesn't mean there may be features in DX12 that are as of yet unknown.. it means everything is already known.
AMD, Intel, Matrox and nVidia (the only players left in the market) have everything that is DX12.. they are supposed to build around that API not the other way around, there will not be any new and mysterious offerings that are unknown that no-one has discovered...

DX12 is here and it's bringing the hammer down on DX11 and to add to that:
The features of DX12 as a basic premise which BOTH AMD and nVidia have to adhere to to get even a resemblance of "OK" from Microsoft is the fact that Drivers need to play less of a factor to the point of almost needing to be eliminated to be any hindrance to performance in games and it is left up to the developer of the game to dictate optimizations so no "Driver update will fix game performance" in a properly developed DX12 game.

Unless you are brand loyal (note: I did NOT say or mean fanboy because they should have 0 place anywhere in the techworld) or REALLY SPECIFICALLY MUST HAVE THAT LOWER POWER DRAW there is absolutely no reason to pick the GTX 970 over the R9 390, especially not with the progress the Crimson drivers are making.

That said .. my current recommendation is wait till about July / September and make your choice then.

[Artorius]

You seem to be missing a few pieces of key info. Have you ever heard of nvidia gameworks?

I didn't want to get into this subject but that's another reason not to buy anything related to Nvidia.

[Vash The Stampede]

You seem to be missing a few pieces of key info. Have you ever heard of nvidia gameworks?.

What's a GameWorks? Haven't heard of GameWorks. Nope sorry, no such thing.

YOU SHALL NEVER SPEAK OF GAMEWORKS!

[Bigvizz]

This 970 vs 390 nonsense is going to be pretty irrelevant in 3 to 6 months, frankly I'm hedging my bets on the next gen cards. Yea I don't care about the people stuck on the current gen cards due to a lack of funds or whatever reason.

[Fascinate]

Not sure where you guys get your numbers, kyle from newegg tested these cards two days ago and the 970 was winning at 1080 by a fair margin in most games he tested while the 390 was only catching up at 4k (of course expected with the larger frame buffer, but really how many people own a 4k monitor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-N337-y7vI

And you have to include WoW in this, this is a WoW forum lol. Techpowerup is the only site i know of that still includes WoW benchmarks, the latest GPU review they did was for a 980ti matrix but it shows the 970 hanging with a 390x (sometimes beating it) which has a ~100 dollar price premium over it:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...Matrix/20.html

Listen i get you all are banking on dx12, but there are reasons to suggest the 970 over the 390. Mainly gameworks titles and MMO's, and to a lesser extent people who want a fairly substantially lower power bill.

[Bigvizz]

I like Badseed tech's thoughts on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYffDNxme0g

[Evildeffy]

Not sure where you guys get your numbers, kyle from newegg tested these cards two days ago and the 970 was winning at 1080 by a fair margin in most games he tested while the 390 was only catching up at 4k (of course expected with the larger frame buffer, but really how many people own a 4k monitor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-N337-y7vI

And you have to include WoW in this, this is a WoW forum lol. Techpowerup is the only site i know of that still includes WoW benchmarks, the latest GPU review they did was for a 980ti matrix but it shows the 970 hanging with a 390x (sometimes beating it) which has a ~100 dollar price premium over it:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...Matrix/20.html

Listen i get you all are banking on dx12, but there are reasons to suggest the 970 over the 390. Mainly gameworks titles and MMO's, and to a lesser extent people who want a fairly substantially lower power bill.

Because the games he ran were all of 3 games which showed exactly what we said and I suggest you re-watch your own video properly.

Because obviously you've not.

And WoW is an irrelevant game to measure a GTX 970 card with (stated this before) because the FPS is through the roof barring the heaviest of raiding environments which are limited by the CPU thus getting almost 0 difference at those loads as well.
Tell me is getting 150 FPS better than getting 100 FPS in WoW's open world?

[Fascinate]

Because the games he ran were all of 3 games which showed exactly what we said and I suggest you re-watch your own video properly.

Because obviously you've not.

And WoW is an irrelevant game to measure a GTX 970 card with (stated this before) because the FPS is through the roof barring the heaviest of raiding environments which are limited by the CPU thus getting almost 0 difference at those loads as well.
Tell me is getting 150 FPS better than getting 100 FPS in WoW's open world?

Umm no? Dude above said this "As of the Crimson Drivers, the 390 is basically 5-15% faster than the 970 across the board", that is what i was replying to, should have quoted it. I linked that video because it was done 2 days ago, unless these magic drivers he speaks of came out since then im not seeing 5-15% "across the board".

As for your WoW comment, there is middle ground you know. Some areas you can peg 300 fps, some areas 150, some areas 90, some areas 70 etc etc etc. This matters because a LOT of monitors are now coming out (and getting cheaper) that are 144hz. There is a sweet spot of around 90 FPS where you can still get the smoothness provided by these monitors, having that headroom is a really good idea to have with nvidia on these titles.