LFR: Success or Failure?

[RoKPaNda]

Success. Easily.

[Daffan]

WoD's LFR was bad thanks to nerfed loot on behalf of "hardcores" that whined about having to do it. Otherwise, it serves its purpose as well as can be expected.

Oh, it's a Jaylock thread. You're starting to sound like a broken record, dude, group finders aren't going anywhere and your much-vaunted ~community~ won't magically come back if they did.

It has nothing to do with nerfed loot at all.

In fact, you can still get welfare pvp items and baleful that is better then 90% of the game in about 1-2 days.

[Tart]

A horrendous error.

[Deleted]

Horseshit. If they wanted to pug normals they would be. If they wanted to raid normals they would be. They choose to STAY in LFR and if that doesnt send you a clear cut message I dont know what will

"Remove LFR and they will come flocking back to raid guilds"

One of the first memes started just after LFR launch. Its garbage then and its garbage now.



Right because whether or not you raid normal or LFR has a direct correlation to what you do in RL. Mate, am I the only one who sees how STUPID this sounds?

What do you do for a living, mate? Better be pretty good if you want to surpass the registered nurses, doctors, cops, firefighters, programmers, teachers, musicians, IT technicians, systems officers or a hundred other kinds of occupations of people I have met in LFR....they raid LFR because they have time constraints, or they dont want guild drama, or their RL schedules cant permit it, or or the simple fact they dont give a RATS ASS about organised raiding.

If you are going to argue about LFR, will you PLEASE at least spare us this tripe?

Typical casual getting triggered by a bit of banter.

[Deleted]

1) Destroyed the community - Players literally are no longer inclined to even speak to one another anymore. We are all now just drones that play the UI queue up game.

You don't have to speak in Heroic HFC pugs either, if your gear is high enough you just get invited and do your thing. So, the community itself is no longer inclined to speak, regardless of circumstances. And it's not like that only in WoW, it's that way in all MMOs since the last decade.

[Ciddy]

Failure: Success or Failure?

There's a Yo Dawg joke in here somewhere....

[ItachiZaku]

LFR is definitely a huge success, I think the only issue with it would have been the tier items and trinkets from previous expansions, that DID FORCE "real" raiders into doing LFR.

[nekobaka]

You don't have to speak in Heroic HFC pugs either, if your gear is high enough you just get invited and do your thing. So, the community itself is no longer inclined to speak, regardless of circumstances. And it's not like that only in WoW, it's that way in all MMOs since the last decade.

Yup, socialization itself hasnt been a requirement like some other posters think. One just needs to not be a selfish dbag and be a team player. The ones who cant are the ones crying about feeling forced to be social.

[Deadite]

Do you consider LFR a success or failure in your eyes?

It is the most popular and therefore best form of raiding. It is unquestionably a success. Participation numbers prove that objectively. You are undeniably wrong if you think it is a failure.

[fenixazul]

Well since I am not going to have time to raid in an schedule in Legion, LFR is going to be probably the only way to get epic gear and being accepted at the normal raid pugs.

And for progress with the Legendary quest... whatever it is now.. you know, collecting an amount of random things that drops from the bosses

[WowIsDead64]

Success. Prior to LFR raiding - had been just a waste of devs resources, that in fact were invested mainly into advertisement and hype, but...when you promise something to players at some point you should deliver it. They promised "Kill dragon - get epic loot" to every player, but only 1% really seen it. So, at some point players started to demand, what they had paid their sub for.

[Jaylock]

I would like to change it around.

LFR, a failed success.

Reason for so is that it is good for the people who doesn't go further to try and look around, but as soon as people goes backwards, the ones who doesn't need LFR, then it'll all suddenly crackdown because these people go there for something that isn't really at the same level as the current ones.

I guess the question one can legitimately ask themselves. Why even have it to just "look around"? Shouldn't raiding be something to be yearning after, or something that one aspires to? To me that makes it even more epic than if anyone and their dog can just click a button, grab loot.

[MoanaLisa]

It can only be counted a success since more people run LFR than every other difficulty combined.

A much more interesting, troubling and profound question after Warlords is whither organized raiding. Given a player community that is among the worst of any of the games I play there are excellent questions to be asked about whether or not organizing into large groups to overcome difficult content is helping or hurting the game. Warlords arguably put a lot of emphasis on raiding to carry retention. It didn't work. So clearly, whatever the formula is to put the game back on track it's not down the road of LFR/Raiding.

[Thimagryn]

I guess the question one can legitimately ask themselves. Why even have it to just "look around"? Shouldn't raiding be something to be yearning after, or something that one aspires to? To me that makes it even more epic than if anyone and their dog can just click a button, grab loot.

I think you're right. Raiding should simply be replaced entirely with actual end-game content that doesn't involve funnelling everyone into the same boss-killing lootfests. More variety in open-ended gameplay to obtain loot. Crafting, mythic quests, dungeon challenges and so on. Why have raiding be the only way to obtain end-game loot?

I came back after 2 years for the 7-day trial. I managed to complete all of WoD's non-raid content in that time, barring any crazy daily (Apexis, Garrisons) grinds. Raiding would be the only way to obtain any decent loot that didn't take a grind to get to. I don't see why they couldn't implement more things like Black Harvest questline for all player types to get their own epic set going. If the reward was more challenging and better ilvl than LFR hand-outs, they would definitely be played.

[Freedom]

MoP was good, hell even Cata DS was okay compared to the shit fest we have now. First kill of LFR Zakuun on my DK, we had 1 tank, so I had to swap in and out of Blood Presence quite a bit. Still killed it. If someone had fucked up like that on MoP Ambershaper, gg wipe.

[Glorious Leader]

LFR is definitely a huge success, I think the only issue with it would have been the tier items and trinkets from previous expansions, that DID FORCE "real" raiders into doing LFR.

It didn't force shit fuck off with this. This is the exact reason why you get wod. Nothing to do cause everything has been gutted out of fear that some mid core world's 99999 shit heel weekend warrior will feel compelled to do content outside of a raid because his peer group of equal reprobates puts that expectation on him. Balancing thr game around the desires and wishes of these people has done it enormous harm this attitude should be ignored. Have fun farming legendary trinkets in legion and tier/trinkets in lfr again.

[Daffan]

It can only be counted a success since more people run LFR than every other difficulty combined.

A much more interesting, troubling and profound question after Warlords is whither organized raiding. Given a player community that is among the worst of any of the games I play there are excellent questions to be asked about whether or not organizing into large groups to overcome difficult content is helping or hurting the game. Warlords arguably put a lot of emphasis on raiding to carry retention. It didn't work. So clearly, whatever the formula is to put the game back on track it's not down the road of LFR/Raiding.

How do you deduct that raiding failed player retention

The people who don't raid, just grab welfare and then are finished. That seems to be more a better thing to point to, if we are going by pseudoevidence

[Dhrizzle]

Failure: Success or Failure?

Considering almost everything Blizzard does is declared a failure and they still have the most successful subscription MMO I'd say that their failure failed to fail properly.

@OP It's not just LFR that detracts from what an MMO "should" be, it's all form of instancing. LFR just completes the ideal of accessible content that they've been working towards forever.

- - - Updated - - -

A lot of people use it so its a success in that frame.

It has done a massive amount of damage to casuals players though.

Can confirm - LFR broke both my knees, caved in my chest and tore out my right eye.

[MoanaLisa]

How do you deduct that raiding failed player retention

The people who don't raid, just grab welfare and then are finished. That seems to be more a better thing to point to, if we are going by pseudoevidence

This expansion was set up to make entry into raiding through group finder and other things as easy as possible. The end result was people leaving in droves before even the last tier was available. It's not pseudo-evidence at all. It's an observation that an expansion in which nearly every progression path led straight to raiding demonstrated little sustainable evidence that retention would be helped at all in that respect. For the most part people didn't even stick around for 'welfare' as you call it. They just decided that it wasn't for them. And why should they have any interest in moving up when there are those like yourself who can't restrain themselves from leveling insults about welfare at them?

[Jaylock]

It didn't force shit fuck off with this. This is the exact reason why you get wod. Nothing to do cause everything has been gutted out of fear that some mid core world's 99999 shit heel weekend warrior will feel compelled to do content outside of a raid because his peer group of equal reprobates puts that expectation on him. Balancing thr game around the desires and wishes of these people has done it enormous harm this attitude should be ignored. Have fun farming legendary trinkets in legion and tier/trinkets in lfr again.

Would you feel betrayed or marginalized if Blizzard in fact decided to remove LFR from the game?

I don't understand why people feel like they need to have a "piñata" mode of "raiding." What purpose does it serve when raiding is and has never been more accessible even to pug groups than ever before.

Wouldn't player retention be higher if they actually had something to aspire to? People don't aspire to LFR, they just do it because they can. They just do it because all it takes is a click of a button, with no effort required on their part to interact with other players, they just need to meet the bare minimum requirement of item level.

World first guilds required their members to do LFR during Dragon Soul and all of MoP because they could actually gain an advantage going into heroic raiding, even if it was only for a week or two, and all guilds no matter on what level of raiding they were on, if a player wanted to raid with a guild, they required you to at least get the tier sets from LFR before you could join the normal raid.

What planet have you been living on?