[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[keqe]

"By my logic I try to make up my own definitions of words".

Sure thing.

Absorption is mitigation. Just because meters show it as healing doesn't mean it isn't mitigation.

If block was worded "your shield absorbs 30% of damage when you block", would it magically stop being mitigation at that point?.

[Tech614]

Absorption is mitigation. Just because meters show it as healing doesn't mean it isn't mitigation.

If block was worded "your shield absorbs 30% of damage when you block", would it magically stop being mitigation at that point?.

Blood Shield is like 12-20% of total healing for a DK depending on fight. The vast majority of their self healing is Death Strike which is around 40-60%. Death Strike healing is not mitigation. Please try to keep up with the conversation before jumping in mid way after a strawman attempt from the previous poster.

BDK does not have strong mitigation nor are they a mitigation tank like dude was claiming.

[keqe]

Blood Shield is like 12-20% of total healing for a DK depending on fight. The vast majority of their self healing is Death Strike which is around 40-60%. Death Strike healing is not mitigation. Please try to keep up with the conversation before jumping in mid way after a strawman attempt from the previous poster.

BDK does not have strong mitigation nor are they a mitigation tank like dude was claiming.

I didn't say they were a mitigation tank nor that they have strong mitigation.

Red EyeD argued absorption is mitigation. And I agree with that notion. How is that strawmanning? No where did he or I argue death strike heal portion is mitigation. Just absorption.

Blood Shield being weak is irrelevant. It is still mitigation even if it bad.

I agree with you that BDK has weak mitigation for before mentioned reasons. But that is irrelevant to your notion that absorption isn't mitigation for some reason. It is you that strawmans by bringing self healing to this argument.

- - - Updated - - -

About different topic. Have you tested the Crucible in 7.3 PTR yet. Heard that the traits on it are "random" for every character. Even copies of same character with same relics.

These are at least what I got in there.

Life slot
Infusion of Light (extra damage from damage or healing from healing) and Torment the Weak (stacking shadow DoT)

Storm slot
Infusion of Light and Master of Shadows (mastery+avoidance 650 rating. 3 ranks).

Iron slot
Light Speed (650 haste and speed. 3 ranks) and Master of Shadows

traits:
Potent Kick, Gifted Student, Draught of Darkness for Life
Hot Blooded, Potent Kick, Obsidian Fists for Storm
Draught of Darkness, Hot Blooded, Overflow for Iron

Not sure if we get all of them as extra trait points or some. Sadly no Face Palm there.

[ReD-EyeD]

Heard that the traits on it are "random" for every character. Even copies of same character with same relics.

That scares me a lot.

Brm traits are so unbalanced in general. They're either too good to skip or absolutely useless, almost never middle ground. Other tanks don't really have that problem.

[Deleted]

Brm traits are so unbalanced in general. They're either too good to skip or absolutely useless, almost never middle ground. Other tanks don't really have that problem.

No, just Guardian (Thrash), Demon Hunter (Flame Crush/Shear), Paladin (Divine Hammer/Consecration), Blood DK (Vamp. Blood)
have those.

[ReD-EyeD]

No, just Guardian (Thrash), Demon Hunter (Flame Crush/Shear), Paladin (Divine Hammer/Consecration), Blood DK (Vamp. Blood)
have those.

Im talking about relative value between traits. Obviously there is something that everyone sticks to, no surprise here at all.

[Deleted]

The Guardian trait is worth around 60 relic ilvl for dps purposes. Defensively it is harder to compare. I doubt Face Palm is worth as much, but I could be wrong there.

[ReD-EyeD]

The Guardian trait is worth around 60 relic ilvl for dps purposes. Defensively it is harder to compare. I doubt Face Palm is worth as much, but I could be wrong there.

Yeah, thrash is a famous one. Especially if coupled with a thrash legendary.

[dcc626]

The Guardian trait is worth around 60 relic ilvl for dps purposes. Defensively it is harder to compare. I doubt Face Palm is worth as much, but I could be wrong there.

with weapon damage meaning nothing for brewmasters, id imagine FP relics being similar.

[Deleted]

I think dcc has the right point, it is not so much that the trait is such an amazing dps increase, it is that weapon ilvl means literally nothing. We get a little bit of auto hit damage and a few stats. If at least our Black out strike damage scaled with weapon dps...

[keqe]

I think dcc has the right point, it is not so much that the trait is such an amazing dps increase, it is that weapon ilvl means literally nothing. We get a little bit of auto hit damage and a few stats. If at least our Black out strike damage scaled with weapon dps...

It's both a blessing and a curse in the current state.

Because face palm trait slot is the "meme trait" slot for all DPS classes and most healers, it won't be seen dropping in raids ever.

Thus it is harder for us to get high ilvl face palm relics because the only (real) source is m+. NL/HoV/EoA.

But because ilvl on weapon doesn't really matter you can have 900 ilvl relics at this point in the game and it doesn't really hurt you.

And if you don't care about Face Palm trait, potent kick trait has the same problem.

[dcc626]

It's both a blessing and a curse in the current state.

Because face palm trait slot is the "meme trait" slot for all DPS classes and most healers, it won't be seen dropping in raids ever.

Thus it is harder for us to get high ilvl face palm relics because the only (real) source is m+. NL/HoV/EoA.

But because ilvl on weapon doesn't really matter you can have 900 ilvl relics at this point in the game and it doesn't really hurt you.

And if you don't care about Face Palm trait, potent kick trait has the same problem.

At least 2 of the world bosses in Argus drop fp relics. So that's something

[Deleted]

Which will probably be lower ilvl than top level m+ as soon as the raid opens

[Juliansfist]

I think where a lot of the arguing points has occurred is because some things aren't well defined enough. When looking at tanking performance I think it's better to assess it in these ways.
Mitigation (abilities) - eg ironskin brew, shield block (ability), demon spikes
Mitigation (passive) - shield block, various masteries
Damage off setting - gift of the ox, soul cleave

Damage off setting would more commonly be described as self healing; however self healing does not necessarily distinguish if the ability is mitigating or if it is off setting damage. Damage off setting means it is not an ability that stops your hp bar from decreasing, but allows the tank to negate hp loss, neutralise it entirely, or offset into surplus. Damage off setting abilities are more effective at dealing with non-lethal damage.

This remedies the dilemma that abilities like ignore pain create if you think about the ability in terms of mitigation or self-healing because it is both. Ignore pain however is not a damage offsetting ability. It does not restore hit points, but mitigates incoming damage

[ReD-EyeD]

Playing around with high crit rate and Prydaz. Damn, this thing is crazy with 1.85 mil damage shield absorb every 30 seconds. Still far from wearing it instead of other better things, but the numbers are impressive.

[dcc626]

Which will probably be lower ilvl than top level m+ as soon as the raid opens

well, since the ilvl doesnt really matter....930 fp relics certainly would be an upgrade

[Deleted]

fair point, but world bosses are pretty hard to farm compared to things like HoV, Nel and EoA

[dcc626]

fair point, but world bosses are pretty hard to farm compared to things like HoV, Nel and EoA

yeah. just nice to have more options is all.

[Tech614]

yeah. just nice to have more options is all.

What would be nice is if they made our abilities actually scale with weapon damage decently instead of just AP. Then it wouldn't even be an issue with the facepalm relics being so absurdly ahead for single target. It's hilarious brewmaster and wind walker have both had this issue since MoP.

[keqe]

Our abilities did scale from weapon damage from MoP to WoD. Though they did with a convoluted formula which might have scaled less than the traditional normalized weapon damage.