Mythic Mannoroth and Archimonde

[Jaylock]

Well we're only doing the last 2 bosses for each group for our last couple mounts.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e-done&fight=1 is me as fire and i enjoyed it. I'm DJMage if that wasn't obvious :P


Insanely broken. See: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...gztprW#fight=4

Is Prophecy and Arch Trink BIS now for Fire? I have been using Prophecy and Sandman's pouch with Kindling and I've been seeing some pretty big sustained DPS, especially on fights that require less moving.

[Djriff]

Is Prophecy and Arch Trink BIS now for Fire? I have been using Prophecy and Sandman's pouch with Kindling and I've been seeing some pretty big sustained DPS, especially on fights that require less moving.

Well It can be if the boss is stationary. Currently PoF is proccing off of flame patch ticks and paired with the class trinket, you have a ton of them. However as i've experienced a couple times, you can go oom in like 2m lol.

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holy hell. I'm trying this combo out as soon as I get home. I wanted to run those day 1 but I figured SMP would be better. But checking out that parse shows me exactly what I wanted to see

It's kinda nuts. We pulled the entire room of trash right before tyrant and i capped out at 6m something DPS.

[Jaylock]

Well It can be if the boss is stationary. Currently PoF is proccing off of flame patch ticks and paired with the class trinket, you have a ton of them. However as i've experienced a couple times, you can go oom in like 2m lol.

Does the trinket proc from the Arch Trinket flame patch use mana? I thought its supposed to just be a free proc. That sucks if thats the case.

[Sylvaeres]

Well It can be if the boss is stationary. Currently PoF is proccing off of flame patch ticks and paired with the class trinket, you have a ton of them. However as i've experienced a couple times, you can go oom in like 2m lol.

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It's kinda nuts. We pulled the entire room of trash right before tyrant and i capped out at 6m something DPS.

oh my god yes. I'm definitely logging on and jumping into some pugs when i get home to try all of this out. I'm pretty excited to see the results

[Deleted]

My first raid tonight was painful because I wasn't used to a new spec at all in relation to the encounters and I had to do frequent raid calls on top. On the bright side, the bosses are /faceroll now. It's literally a slightly harder version of heroic again like it had happened with SoO.

[Xires]

We clear Mythic Mannoroth and Archimonde weekly. Just trying to get a feel of how guilds are doing.

I'm only seeing one guild that's killed him so far:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/8#boss=1795

Mannoroth was a pain in the ass because timers were all off but M Archi was a huge joke. Killed him on our 2nd attempt.

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Manny was easy for us. Archimonde required a bunch of fiddling as to who did the fires and overall pacing (but we worked it out). Biggest issue was fucked up P3 dance.

My feeling is that 7.0 Archimonde is probably no easier for guilds that have not yet killed it. For guilds that have killed it, once they work through the healing / job changes, it'll be slightly easier, but not hugely so.

Archi was a joke...even when the infernals were together they still melted super fast.

[Deleted]

The bosses are literal jokes now. I don't mean it in an elitist way like "oh, if you are skilled you would kill it", it's very hard to not kill them with a group that was barely able to kill the old version. You can ignore entire mechanics or just half-arse them or you can even leave people focusing the wrong things and it might still die very easily.

[Xires]

Does the trinket proc from the Arch Trinket flame patch use mana? I thought its supposed to just be a free proc. That sucks if thats the case.

It did the first day but that was a bug. Now it doesn't cost any mana but the pug with flame patch itself is still there. It wont tick if youi are hardcasting.

[Skroe]

Archi was a joke...even when the infernals were together they still melted super fast.

That comment was from Tuesday with wrought. Wednesday was a much different story. And yeah infernals were annihilated.

[Rehok]

That comment was from Tuesday with wrought. Wednesday was a much different story. And yeah infernals were annihilated.

Weren't infernals annihilated anyways if everyone hit them :P.

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The bosses are literal jokes now. I don't mean it in an elitist way like "oh, if you are skilled you would kill it", it's very hard to not kill them with a group that was barely able to kill the old version. You can ignore entire mechanics or just half-arse them or you can even leave people focusing the wrong things and it might still die very easily.

That seems to be the case assuming you aren't running alt tanks/healers that aren't in full 740 gear as rather squishy

[Deleted]

lmao I did the same thing with some guildies. I also play a mage, so I was super concerned about playing Fire, but I honestly didn't feel like the class was performing badly. I mean, we're not hunters or locks atm, but I'll be practicing a ton over the week to get used to my new playstyle, and I expect our mythic clear to take around 2-2.5 hours next week. I'm assuming your run will be similar

Yeah you are not hunters, you do better than hunters.

[KaPe]

Weren't infernals annihilated anyways if everyone hit them :P.

Not if you were low on DKs and three decided to land in the same spot while ring was on cd. Rare as it was, it happened.

[Rehok]

Not if you were low on DKs and three decided to land in the same spot while ring was on cd. Rare as it was, it happened.

Off Tank pulls 1, Hunter Taunts 1 and blow up the third with a stun on it so it doesnt move

[Sylvaeres]

Yeah you are not hunters, you do better than hunters.

um. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Hunters are clearly in a better spot now than mages. If you don't realize that, that's ok. You're simply not playing at a level where it matters. No big

[Dracodraco]

um. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Hunters are clearly in a better spot now than mages. If you don't realize that, that's ok. You're simply not playing at a level where it matters. No big

Depends what you're talking about. Mages in general pull better numbers than hunters in the prepatch. Not much more to say about it. They even have decent burst-targetswitching with instant pyros now. Hunters pull better AOE numbers than mages because Barrage + marked shot is absolutely amazing for passive cleave, and that's about it, but if you go and look at WCL, you'll see that "at a level where it matters", mages just pull better numbers than hunters - period. The only fight I can find where this doesn't hold true is Assault.

Also, if you haven't even done the current tier prior to the nerfs, you might not want to pull the "where it matters"-card. People get awfully rude when others do that, you can have a civil argument without trying to pull rank on others.

[Nitros14]

Yeah pretty severe extra nerfs. After struggling on tuesday we went back in today and one shot Mannoroth (hilariously, despite playing extremely poorly) and killed Archimonde in a few pulls after figuring out new timings.

[Deleted]

going back to M manno on Sunday , Wednesday we had some trouble with people that hadnt even tried their specs before the raid and well people not swapping to adds. and people lagging and whole raid getting kicked back to char selection screen mid fight.

[Sylvaeres]

Depends what you're talking about. Mages in general pull better numbers than hunters in the prepatch. Not much more to say about it. They even have decent burst-targetswitching with instant pyros now. Hunters pull better AOE numbers than mages because Barrage + marked shot is absolutely amazing for passive cleave, and that's about it, but if you go and look at WCL, you'll see that "at a level where it matters", mages just pull better numbers than hunters - period. The only fight I can find where this doesn't hold true is Assault.

Also, if you haven't even done the current tier prior to the nerfs, you might not want to pull the "where it matters"-card. People get awfully rude when others do that, you can have a civil argument without trying to pull rank on others.

Um, i'm 13/13m, so i don't understand where you get off on saying "if you havent done the current tier". As far as logs and etc, i'll have to look into that more, but I can name quite a few fights where a hunter can pull numbers higher than a mage. Also, my "no big" comment wasn't meant to be condescending in any way. It was just a statement of fact.

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Also, sidenote, using 1 week of logs to determine where classes are is probably a bad idea for all of us. The sample size is too small and most of the fights have been one shots for 13/13 guilds. One bad pull will skew the rankings pretty heavily

[Dracodraco]

Um, i'm 13/13m, so i don't understand where you get off on saying "if you havent done the current tier". As far as logs and etc, i'll have to look into that more, but I can name quite a few fights where a hunter can pull numbers higher than a mage. Also, my "no big" comment wasn't meant to be condescending in any way. It was just a statement of fact.

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Also, sidenote, using 1 week of logs to determine where classes are is probably a bad idea for all of us. The sample size is too small and most of the fights have been one shots for 13/13 guilds. One bad pull will skew the rankings pretty heavily

First off, your reading comprehension is off. I'll restate what I said:

"Also, if you haven't even done the current tier prior to the nerfs" - which you didn't do, with a kill date of may 18. Infact, despite joining a guild that cleared the tier almost 4 month prior to your first kill, not even your guild did the content "pre nerf", first kill came a month after valor upgrades (and ring-speeding through VP) was released.

So that's where I'm "getting off" stating facts. Have a proper discussion, or even argument, but don't pull the fucking "oh you must not be playing at a high enough level where this matters"-card when you don't play at the level where it matters *yourself*. It's condescending, and quite honestly infuriating to see people do that rather than base their arguments on proof or data. Going "I'M BETTER THAN YOU SO I MUST KNOW MORE" is fucking kindergarten level.

As far as logs etc go, they are the only factual evidence we have right now. If you haven't even bothered to look at them prior to making sweeping statements that hunters are superior to mages, that's a huge fuckup from your side. If you want to be cocky, always have evidence on your side. But sure, enlighten me - which fights (apart from Hellfire Assault, as I've already mentioned) are hunters better damage-wise than mages? Because according to WCL, the only two other fights at peak performance where that happens are Socrethar (where hunters whore on the ghosts that will die due to the construct anyway = empty damage) and Gorefiend (if they are allowed to cleave the souls down). On the vast majority, and on singletarget especially, Fire is superior.

Lastly, using 1 week's worth of logs is entirely fine to establish where the class rankings are, as an initial gauge anyway. The sample size already consists of over 1.5K marksman and fire mages *on archimonde alone*. Overall, it consists of 20K+ fire mages and marksman hunters. If Marksman was pulling ahead of fire consistently, we'd be able to see the picture by now.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=7&dataset=100 Here's the data for you to play with. I can see that if you tune it down to sub-50th percentile, MM hunters start to pull ahead (probably because fire mage is a shitton harder to get right than MM is right now, no denying that). Maybe that's what you're experiencing?
Even if the sample size was smaller, your argument is entirely flawed - if the statement "one bad pull will skew the rankings pretty heavily" is true, then that must go for *both* fire mages and MM hunters, which means we'd end up with *gasp* a useful, aggregated result.

And you and I both know you intended to be condescending as fuck. You don't both pull the "I'm better than you so you wouldn't know" card along with the "but it's okay that you don't understand" if you don't want to sound smug and condescending. I'm sad to say that triggers me, and if you want to play that game, I'll happily stoop to your level and stomp all over your ego, because this is not how we have nice discussions.

[aesthir]

Lmao, your entire post was extremely condescending. I'm happy someone called you out on it. Also, it's hilarious how 'where it matters' is basically the level you're playing at, but as soon as someone comes around having accomplished 'more' than you, this doesn't matter anymore xD