[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Morally Grey Storm]

If es becomes way better than FV in its current style, im gonna be very sad.

I dont like what they have done with the spell, its very annoying to manage.
I tried using it just for the sake of it, and i cant help but miss WoDs itteration of it.

ES is long dead.
That which bears it's name is anything but.

[killwithpwr]

ES is long dead.
That which bears it's name is anything but.

It could be short for Eternal Sorrow...

[Morally Grey Storm]

It could be should for Eternal Sorrow...

But have you ever tried to Storm the Sorrow?

[killwithpwr]

But have you ever tried to Storm the Sorrow?

I dont pvp...

But i do use Divine Storm a lot...

[Reith]

It's in the patch notes: "Chain of Thrayn now correctly, additively stacks with Crusade."

[Deleted]

Yup i was right afterall.

I do listen to things decently. I just don't always make a screenshot for every skeptic out there. :P

- - - Updated - - -

Source on Chain nerf? I've seen nothing, and it's been (a) additive and (b) 10% for a long time, so nobody's making any sense in here.

You can check it on the patch notes now.

[Ulthane]

How significant is this mastery buff?

[Deleted]

\o/

Who knows?! The theorycrafters are on vacation or something. I'm expecting to see something during this week.

[Deleted]

6% Buff just a compensation for our aura?

[Reith]

6% Buff just a compensation for our aura?

Nah that's not even including that. They just added that damage to abilities I think. The 6% figure is compensation for the AW relic nerf, but that might not be enough considering the Chain nerf. Also, that's an extremely rough estimate, as some abilities were affected more than others.

[Deleted]

Nah that's not even including that. They just added that damage to abilities I think. The 6% figure is compensation for the AW relic nerf, but that might not be enough considering the Chain nerf. Also, that's an extremely rough estimate, as some abilities were affected more than others.

the 6% are intended as a compensation for the wrath of the ashbringer trait nerf. But I would bet good money that the did not take the effect this changes has on the belt and ring into consideration. The belt "fix" hasn´t have been calculated in as well if you ask me.
The actual buff is the mastery change but will mostly or even totally consumed by the indirect legendary nerfs. It might change the legendary rankings so much that whispers and highlord becomes BiS rendering 2pt19 + 4pt20 not feasible. Thus hitting us even more.

[ThePants999]

It's difficult to calculate the impact of the WotA and Chain nerfs because it depends on (a) fight length and (b) how much else you manage to stack in with Crusade. Making a bunch of assumptions and modelling, I estimate them to be about a 5.2% nerf in a 5-minute fight. So I predict we'll see slightly better numbers from rets post-patch.

[Deleted]

It's difficult to calculate the impact of the WotA and Chain nerfs because it depends on (a) fight length and (b) how much else you manage to stack in with Crusade. Making a bunch of assumptions and modelling, I estimate them to be about a 5.2% nerf in a 5-minute fight. So I predict we'll see slightly better numbers from rets post-patch.

let´s summerize:
4.5% loss from the chain "fix" we do 40-50% of our dmg during wings -> -2.5% total loss
20% nerf of the wings trait means 36 seconds of wings at max -> 10% loss of wings (taken from the 15 stacks time no compensation on the building side)
10% nerf to Liadrins Fury (1 procc per 4 seconds 40s >36s) -> 1 hp less generated
20% nerf to Bow trait nerfed from 5 to 4%, min. 20% of our total dmg at least 4% of this are gone -> 1% dmg nerf

a DS nerf was in there as well as other trait changes but I think the items listed above are more than sufficient to sum up to more than the 6% buff..

[Felkor]

Ok, I've some calculation to see the difference between 7.2.5 and 7.3.0.

I'm using the following assumptions :
- 3 relics with WotA traits
- Fight duration of 300s
- Not accounting Lyadrin on the calculation
- 6s for full crusade rampup
- The damage of the belt is multiplicative in 7.2.5, additive in 7.3.0
- The change of WotA from 2,5s to 2s for each points.

Starting with a basedps of 100dps, I have the following output :

DPS_725 : 146,5 (57,3% of total dps done during crusade uptime)
DPS_730 : 139,8 (52,8% of total dps done during crusade uptime)
DPS_730 WITH 6% buff : 148,2

I've try to play with the variables (fight length, number of WotA relics, etc), in general, I can see that :
- The changes of 7.3.0 on crusade is resulting to a global dps loss of ~4,5% on the global dps
- The changes of 7.3.0 in general, factoring the 6% overall buff, is resulting to a dps gain of ~1% on global dps.

So I think those changes will not hurt us, resulting to an overall 1% dps gain, which is I think more that the difference due to the impact of WotA on Lyadrin for those using this ring.

Again, This is not factoring the changes done on mastery, this will needs simulation to be more accurate ; the changes on crusade are however more easy to simulate.

TLDR : The changes on crusade with the 6% damage buff will be transparent (no loss / no gain) ; the mastery change will be full bonus, we will see how this is sorting out.

[Deleted]

Ok, I've some calculation to see the difference between 7.2.5 and 7.3.0.

I'm using the following assumptions :
- 3 relics with WotA traits
- Fight duration of 300s
- Not accounting Lyadrin on the calculation, but we're going to lose 1HP from it, the impact will be minor (under any marge of errors on a full fight duration).
- 6s for full crusade rampup
- The damage of the belt is multiplicative in 7.2.5, additive in 7.3.0
- The change of WotA from 2,5s to 2s for each points.

Starting with a basedps of 100dps, I have the following output :

DPS_725 : 146,5 (57,3% of total dps done during crusade uptime)
DPS_730 : 139,8 (52,8% of total dps done during crusade uptime)
DPS_730 WITH 6% buff : 148,2

I've try to play with the variables (fight length, number of WotA relics, etc), in general, I can see that :
- The changes of 7.3.0 on crusade is resulting to a global dps loss of ~4,5% on the global dps
- The changes of 7.3.0 in general, factoring the 6% overall buff, is resulting to a dps gain of ~1% on global dps.

This is not factoring the changes done on mastery, this will needs simulation to be more accurate ; the changes on crusade are however more easy to simulate.

So I think those changes will not hurt us, but the buff is by far not really important. It will all depends how the mastery change will sort out.

have you taken the changes to other traits into consideration as well?

[Felkor]

have you taken the changes to other traits into consideration as well?

The other notables changes (outside mastery) :

- Execution Sentence damage increased by 17%.
- Righteous Blade trait bonus reduced to 4% per rank (was 5% per rank).

-> The changes of ES will need simulation to give us more intel ; not in the range of my excel spreedsheat, so not taken this into account here
-> The Righteous Blade trait is not included here.

But it should be quite easy to see the impact. If you have no relics giving you Righteous Blade bonus, you'll loose 4% damage on Divine Storm.
So on a monotarget fight, no difference, the calculation done before are giving us the same result.
On an AoE fight, where DS is accounting for 40% of global damage, you'll loose an additionnal ~1,8% global dps.
So on global, on a AoE heavy fight, a nerf between 0,5% and 1% of global DPS.

This should be compensated with the mastery changes as far we can see.

This patch is not a huge buff, but we we'll see a slight dps increase, and not a decrease.
But I don't see the ret climbing the charts in the times to come neither

[Deleted]

So one fast question : ES is buffed 6% and then 17% more or they do it 17% only ?

[Felkor]

I think ES is increased by 17% and the global 6% buff. (so a total of 24,02% increased for ES).
It is the logic way of reading the patch note.

[Deleted]

Better be cause goin from tv to es u loose like 20% on tv which is massive since half the damage comes from it

[Reith]

Here's the comparison from my own character unbuffed (except I had to use fel focuser for ES to get it to round to 1.1, so it's pretty close to 1.1 without):

Ability Live/PTR
-----------------
Wake 369+375/393+398
Judge 318/389
BoJ 651/688
Zeal 335/357
TV 506/536
JV 486/506
DS 303/311
ES 895/1.1 mill w/focuser
Cons 329/293
CS 247/260
DH 62/66.6

I suspect the Consecration tooltip is wrong, but it doesn't matter either way.