Brewmaster soloing Mythic Auch... How?

[HotJoint]

So, just how? We are supposed to be the worst tank on this expansion...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlPH7qiS-NI

[keqe]

That is from 6.2. You can clearly see him using guard and chi explosion. Soloing it with that gear was no problem at all at that point.

Just because our soloing power is worse in Legion doesn't mean we are overall worst tanks though.

[Shangxi]

We are supposed to be the worst tank on this expansion...

According to...?

[HotJoint]

That is from 6.2. You can clearly see him using guard and chi explosion. Soloing it with that gear was no problem at all at that point.

Just because our soloing power is worse in Legion doesn't mean we are overall worst tanks though.

Aaah ok, Jesus, thanx for the clarification. I supposed to be on pre-patch since the video was uploaded just yet.

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According to...?

This very forum... Or we are not?

[Ultramad]

Aaah ok, Jesus, thanx for the clarification. I supposed to be on pre-patch since the video was uploaded just yet.

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This very forum... Or we are not?

I wouldn't believe opinions on forums. If I couldn't tank relevant content at 110 I would be worried. But that's not the case.

[Deleted]

99% sure Brewmasters can still solo Mythic Auchindoun in 7.0, would properly require the 4 set though in order to have enough self sustain, but almost definitely still doable.

With that being said the soloing capabilities of the Brewmaster were still waaay better in 6.2.2 than they are 7.0, but that can more or less be said for all of the tanks, self sustain in general was nerfed for tanks.

And Brewmasters being regarded as bad tanks is mostly due to a lot of people not really playing them properly, and partly because purifying brew is not as effective doing low damage in take compared to high damage intake, thus making it feel underwhelming while doing HC dungeons compared to Mythic dungeons, but that's a another discussion.

Maybe early in 7.0 Brewmasters were in the lower end of the tanking hierarchy, but it with nerfs dished out to Prot Warriors, Blood DK, and Guardian droods recently, the tanks are fairly equal. With arguably Vengeance Demon Hunters being a bit below the rest

[ambident]

99% sure Brewmasters can still solo Mythic Auchindoun in 7.0, would properly require the 4 set though in order to have enough self sustain, but almost definitely still doable.

I think you are wrong.

With that being said the soloing capabilities of the Brewmaster were still waaay better in 6.2.2 than they are 7.0, but that can more or less be said for all of the tanks, self sustain in general was nerfed for tanks.

self-sustain was reduced for blood dk, but they are still largely based on a self-healing model.
self-sustain was increased for warriors, as they had dumpy shield barrier in wod.
self-sustain was massacred for monk, they are now the most healer-dependent tank in many situations.

And Brewmasters being regarded as bad tanks is mostly due to a lot of people not really playing them properly

It's funny that you mention knowing how to play brewmaster properly.

During early testing of the spec, Blizzard chose to educate mythic brewmasters and their healers on how to play since brewmaster had a new tanking design. Testers responded by assuring Blizzard this was a piss-poor untenable design, and Blizzard subsequently made changes. Since then, brewmasters have still been playing the spec incorrectly, as Blizzard's stance is that ISB should not be maintained for the full duration of tanking.

Has there been another spec that players played incorrectly for an entire beta?

...and partly because purifying brew is not as effective doing low damage in take compared to high damage intake, thus making it feel underwhelming while doing HC dungeons compared to Mythic dungeons, but that's a another discussion.

I do not know what you mean when you say that purify is more effective when there is higher damage intake. If we assume sustained damage over some period of time, whether it is low or high, purify will mitigate some set % of it if you perform the same set of actions in each case. Note that this is how things like armor/block/sotr work as well (larger hits result in more mitigation because they are %-based).

For long periods of sustained damage the isb/purify model is rather poor (similar to SOTR), but even in some best-case scenario where you are popping ISB prior to a large damage spike and immediately purifying, the gains aren't exactly overwhelming unless you survive what would have killed some other tank.

Maybe early in 7.0 Brewmasters were in the lower end of the tanking hierarchy, but it with nerfs dished out to Prot Warriors, Blood DK, and Guardian droods recently, the tanks are fairly equal. With arguably Vengeance Demon Hunters being a bit below the rest

I have no doubt that all tanks are viable.

However, I will be surprised if brewmaster doesn't see some adjustments. No other tank gets punished so badly for mistakes. Consider a tank that pops ISB, takes a large amount of damage and lets ISB fall off without purifying while continuing to tank, or a tank that never purifies and only uses ISB.

As someone who plans to heal/tank/dps this expansion, I do not look forward to healing random brewmasters, I already healed some bad ones on the beta.

[Deleted]

I think you are wrong.

I know I'm not, you can quite get away with pulls similar to the video OP posted such at putting your statue in the middle of the room and pull all of the 3 packs initial packs down at the same time, but it's easily soloable if do one pack at a time, I think you VASTLY overestimate mythic dungeons, they're tuned around 670...

Warriors is the outlier in terms of selfs sustain since they used to be the most healer depended tank and Ignore Pain is ridiculous, don't really think that changes my point about how the general tanking philosophy by Blizzard was to reduce tanking self sustain. And Ignore Pain Warriors are not even close to being on par with how Blood DKs or 4 set guard machine Monks used to be in terms of self sustain and soloing.

[QUOTE=ambident;42121384]It's funny that you mention knowing how to play brewmaster properly.

During early testing of the spec, Blizzard chose to educate mythic brewmasters and their healers on how to play since brewmaster had a new tanking design. Testers responded by assuring Blizzard this was a piss-poor untenable design, and Blizzard subsequently made changes. Since then, brewmasters have still been playing the spec incorrectly, as Blizzard's stance is that ISB should not be maintained for the full duration of tanking.

Has there been another spec that players played incorrectly for an entire beta?[QUOTE]

You mean the guide that includes gold nuggets such as "as a last resort, roll away"

The guide thing is always blown out of proportions, the only real point of controversy was the whole ordeal about Gift of the Ox having a higher spawn rate while at low health, and they changed it when the community told them that was a horrible idea, so don't really see you point about bringing that up.

As far as the the 100% uptime with ISB goes, I doubt Blizz intended how strong Chi torpedo would be with the glyph Victory Roll, or how you can jump while casting it thus doing the aoe damage without moving, I doubt that was ever a nintended playsyle Blizz had for Brewmasters, and never the less it was a powerful playstyle that made Brewmasters tier 1 in challenge mode and responsible ridiculous parses on Komrok.

QUOTE=ambident;42121384]However, I will be surprised if brewmaster doesn't see some adjustments. No other tank gets punished so badly for mistakes. Consider a tank that pops ISB, takes a large amount of damage and lets ISB fall off without purifying while continuing to tank, or a tank that never purifies and only uses ISB.

As someone who plans to heal/tank/dps this expansion, I do not look forward to healing random brewmasters, I already healed some bad ones on the beta[QUOTE]

I guess Brewmasters might get buffed, like they did in WoD when people were whining, next tier they were stupidly OP. Either way I've been enjoying the Brewmaster on the beta in Mythic+6 dungeons don't think I would enjoy it less if buffs came in, so sure why not.

[PinDrop]

Brewmaster self-healing seems like it would be powerful, after all we have several sources from; Gift of the Ox and Expel Harm, our 15 Talents, Healing Elixir, all buffed by Celestial Fortune, should be pretty potent, right?

Compared to our damage intake, it's not.

Warriors, on the other hand, have one self heal if talented, Impending Victory, and Last stand, a longer cooldown. You'd think their self healing is much weaker, but compared to their damage intake, it is much stronger.

Here's a bit of anecdotal testing I did.

I got on my 743 Brewmaster and had a few goes at the Dungeoneer's Tanking Dummy in warspear. I could get to 7 or 8 stacks of Uber Strike before I was killed, maybe one or two higher if lucky with 4-PC and celestial procs. I may have been playing grossly incorrectly, and Obstinate Determination would probably allow for much longer survivability. I'll try again and purify more, see if it helps, but I don't think it will get me that much higher.

I then got on my 720 Prot Warrior.

...

SIXTY-TWO STACKS.

...

Brewmasters definitely have the "survive massive spike damage" angle covered, as they will shuffle every bit of that damage with no cap, while a Warrior's Ignore Pain can and will get eaten up, leaving them defenseless momentarily. If the incoming damage is low, Warriors won't need much healing, but a Brewmaster always will need some amount of external heals, however small, as our self-sustain just doesn't cut it, and is more meant for emergency healing to ease healer stress than it is to actually effectively heal us. That's my take on it anyway. In a raid scenario with healers, both tanks are very strong. In a solo encounter, Brewmasters are going to feel like their life is just ebbing away with little they can do about it, which is exactly the case. That's why many are asking for a minimum amount of purify, as even when questing our life just ticks away, even after the fight is over. Pretty obnoxious.