[Legion] Brusalk's Destro Guide

[Baconeggcheese]

Well I think with Feretory fix AND this it should be enough to put RB away. For my personal case running simc after Feretory hotfix commit was added resulted in me having no difference between Backdraft and RB if I use SC, that is with 4pc ofc.

Can't sim with CDF, because it bugs Feretory in SIMC now resulting in inflated number. But I expect that to be close too, especially after CB fix goes through.

But I just hope I will be able to figure out the recepie to make RB at most 2% ahead theoretically where it is a not giving a damn area for me.

BD + SC with 4p is silly fun, you just go through these chain bursts of 1s chaosberts.

I'm skeptical, but I'd prefer if you were right. The gap really doesn't have to close much for RB to not be really worth using, and SC scales with the more shards we generate which we're getting flooded now, but I remain cautiously reserved in my optimism.

[Moruff]

Well according to the guide, you're using RoF at 2.5 targets. With the change, that'll drop it to 2.0x targets. Probably still not worth it to keep up RoF with the ring on pure st, but there's not much of that in NH.

[burek]

What is the optimal line with 2pc when using backdraft? Lets say you have 4 shards and 2 backdraft charges, do you cast a super fast second chaos bolt or do you use the 2nd charge on an incinerate in between 2 chaos bolts? Talking about single target, on priority adds you would want the fast bolts

[Baconeggcheese]

What is the optimal line with 2pc when using backdraft? Lets say you have 4 shards and 2 backdraft charges, do you cast a super fast second chaos bolt or do you use the 2nd charge on an incinerate in between 2 chaos bolts? Talking about single target, on priority adds you would want the fast bolts

They both end up the same cast time (at least looking at my own) with the 2p up, so I imagine the optimal thing would be to incinerate in order to delay the CB as much as possible to try to increase up time on the 2p for shard proc opportunities / conflag recharge unless you're gonna cap shards.

[Tramzh]

Well according to the guide, you're using RoF at 2.5 targets. With the change, that'll drop it to 2.0x targets. Probably still not worth it to keep up RoF with the ring on pure st, but there's not much of that in NH.

The calculations in the guide are completely outdated, and so is the rest of the guide (Don't know why a guy who's inactive is still in charge of the guide). It doesn't factor in a lot of important things like legendaries and set bonuses etc. 4 set with RB leads to a bigger portion of your damage coming from conflag and immolate and it causes us to generate a lot more shards. RoF instead of CB also gives the spec incredible mobility. With the access to really high ilvl immo crit% relics from Gul'dan I could definitely see it at least being competitive with CB. I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Turturin the Warlock]

Wouldn't surprise me if RoF will be a single target dps increase over CB after the changes if you have the RoF ring

Because of shard cost RoF would have to hit 50% harder to make that true. So roughly averaging 1.2-1.3 mm. Don't think RoF hits that hard.

[Jondar]

So with Cry Havoc trait being a thing in 7.2.. that's them saying that the Magistrike "hotfix" was intentional because they were baking its effect into the artifact, right?


Which means we go an entire tier without feeling the compensation for it. Rip.

[Baconeggcheese]

So with Cry Havoc trait being a thing in 7.2.. that's them saying that the Magistrike "hotfix" was intentional because they were baking its effect into the artifact, right?


Which means we go an entire tier without feeling the compensation for it. Rip.

CB was buffed by 4%(along with everything else) and is about to be buffed by another 9%. Our overall dmg has been compensated for it plenty. I don't really get where everyone got the idea that we were going to be compensated for every berry nerf as opposed to reigning in things that were wildly overperforming.

The feel bad right now is that magistrikes aren't very strong when compared to always useful berries like shoulders / sindorei / or even prydaz which also comes with a shield.

[Jondar]

CB was buffed by 4%(along with everything else) and is about to be buffed by another 9%. Our overall dmg has been compensated for it plenty. I don't really get where everyone got the idea that we were going to be compensated for every berry nerf as opposed to reigning in things that were wildly overperforming.

The feel bad right now is that magistrikes aren't very strong when compared to always useful berries like shoulders / sindorei / or even prydaz which also comes with a shield.

I mean, I pretty clearly meant the compensation for the 2x proc chance nerf with Havoc'd CBs, not the % change. CB and ROF/Cata buffs are because Destro as a whole are doing lower than they wanted. That is not related to the Magistrike changes and baking in of the effect.

The idea that we are getting compensated for the Magistrike change comes from them putting what they took away directly into our artifact.

[Deleted]

CB was buffed by 4%(along with everything else) and is about to be buffed by another 9%. Our overall dmg has been compensated for it plenty. I don't really get where everyone got the idea that we were going to be compensated for every berry nerf as opposed to reigning in things that were wildly overperforming.

The feel bad right now is that magistrikes aren't very strong when compared to always useful berries like shoulders / sindorei / or even prydaz which also comes with a shield.

They feel bad because they took something in the region of a 70% nerf on a niche legendary on a spec that isn't exactly rocking the boat - hell, it was even the classes alleged niche where overperforming should be the least of the devs concerns, whereas more universally useful legendaries on both the spec and other classes took far less of a punch. Net class damage isn't peoples gripe, it's the legendary system where it's a pain to get one that's useful to begin with, and the bracers that are already useless in non-cleave fights are now dumpstered even on cleave fights.

Even Odr is looking to edge it out at this rate, which will put it pretty close to the bottom of the pile. That's a pretty big change for something that was toted as being one of the top two, even more aggravating when it's a stealth nerf the devs don't seem to want to confirm was intentional when you're having to distribute your legendary upgrade items - it's a world of difference in attitude / communication between this and the mage bracers / rogue ring.

[bio347]

Or maybe they just thought that the bracers were overperforming and nerfed them, but figured the mechanic was useful and/or cool enough to use elsewhere. Not everything has to be some conspiracy.

[Uzkin]

Or maybe they just thought that the bracers were overperforming and nerfed them, but figured the mechanic was useful and/or cool enough to use elsewhere. Not everything has to be some conspiracy.

They nerfed/ruined the mechanic as well.

[Zally]

The calculations in the guide are completely outdated, and so is the rest of the guide (Don't know why a guy who's inactive is still in charge of the guide). It doesn't factor in a lot of important things like legendaries and set bonuses etc. 4 set with RB leads to a bigger portion of your damage coming from conflag and immolate and it causes us to generate a lot more shards. RoF instead of CB also gives the spec incredible mobility. With the access to really high ilvl immo crit% relics from Gul'dan I could definitely see it at least being competitive with CB. I guess we will have to wait and see.

If that's the case, Then can I continue to trust the stat priorities, talent choices, and rotation of this guide anymore?

[Brusalk]

The calculations in the guide are completely outdated, and so is the rest of the guide (Don't know why a guy who's inactive is still in charge of the guide). It doesn't factor in a lot of important things like legendaries and set bonuses etc. 4 set with RB leads to a bigger portion of your damage coming from conflag and immolate and it causes us to generate a lot more shards. RoF instead of CB also gives the spec incredible mobility. With the access to really high ilvl immo crit% relics from Gul'dan I could definitely see it at least being competitive with CB. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I'm happy to update the guide to be more accurate! (and am doing so right now, as a matter of fact).

I'd kindly appreciate it if you highlight what specifically in the guide is incorrect so that we can have a discussion about it, and adjust the guide as necessary, rather than just saying that the guide is completely outdated without providing reason.

I'm waiting to update the guide to include and "bake in" things like tier set changes once it's common for people to actually have that gear, and for the theorycrafting on such subjects to be more solidified.


On the subject of RoF compared to CB, it's almost entirely a question of whether RoF does more damage per shard than Chaos Bolt, which even with the hot-fixes isn't true. With Chaos Bolt now dealing 1197.801% SP per 3 Soul Shards, compared to RoFs 577 % SP per 3 Soul Shards, it's pretty obvious that from that perspective Chaos Bolt is still better. The other consideration of course is Chaos Bolts' cast time compared to RoF, but with set bonuses (and potentially RE and BD) Chaos Bolt can have a very quick cast-time. One area where RoF may come out ahead is in instances where you have too much shard generation to not cap while consuming with CB, but in such situations you're not really going to be exclusively single-target (likely have many Immolates up) in which case you'll likely want to RoF anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

If that's the case, Then can I continue to trust the stat priorities, talent choices, and rotation of this guide anymore?

My guide is honestly never going to be 100% up-to-date with the latest theorycrafting that occurs when new changes are coming in and things are very fluid. That's just the nature of this guide/forum being more of a long-form format of communication, rather than being fast/conversational like the discord is.

However, I can assure you that the guide will be a good source for the basis of your knowledge of how to play Destro, which you can then use to think critically about the theorycrafting that goes on in the Warlock discord and elsewhere. I plan on keeping the guide up to date, but I cannot as one person keep up with the rate of change in theorycrafting that goes on in the Warlock discord and elsewhere. (I'm not omnipotent)

If there is information that has come out in the Warlock discord or elsewhere which contradicts information that's in the guide, please bring it up here so that we can discuss and keep the guide as up to date as possible.

Also, I am keeping everything about this guide on Github, so if you do have any issues or concerns with the accuracy of statements within this guide, reporting it at https://github.com/Brusalk/destro-guide/issues is a great way to keep this updated as a resource for everyone.

- - - Updated - - -

Small update according to recent hotfixes.

---

Changelog:

1.1.1 (1/22/2017) - 7.1.5

• Channel Demonfire no longer AoEs
  
• Rain of Fire, Chaos Bolt, and Catacylsm damage were all buffed in a hotfix. Adjusted in-guide theorycrafting to match new values.

If you'd like to see a detailed breakdown of literally everything I changed just now, you can take a look here: 1.1.1 (1/22/2017) - 7.1.5 (You can see everything I changed, even down to individual character changes!)


Like always, please don't hesitate to contact me if you see any inaccuracies or you're concerned with anything that I've stated in the guide. I want the guide to be as up to date and as accurate as possible! If you think I've got something wrong, or you think I should add something, please let me know!

[Zally]

Thank you Brusalk. I've been really stressed out with my dps, and even the idea of me gearing, talent choices, or stats in the wrong direction would be too much. But as fare As RB goes I find it very hard (at least for myself) to maintain it. Even standing completely still at the training dummy I find I lose more dps then I would if I use BD. Is it because I don't have the 4pc for the extra Conflag charge? Or it's it simply poor execution?

Also I've been wondering for sometime now. But is there a haste cap? Or I should always look for the most haste then crit in all my gear?

[Deleted]

@Zally

Without 4P RB is close to BD or even behind depending of your relics (scale really well with immolation crit/dmg relics).
=> Take BD, easier to play.

With 4P RB is ahead but it's hard to have a perfect execution in real fight.
So BD might still be better, especially in cleave situation.
(btw if you have feretory of soul, Gaidax pointed that there are no diff for him between RB and BD).

Also I've been wondering for sometime now. But is there a haste cap? Or I should always look for the most haste then crit in all my gear?

Use simulation craft, or https://www.raidbots.com/simbot to have your stat weight

Priority are :
1) Haste around 25%
2) Ilv
3) Haste under 30% and crit around 20 to 25% and some mastery/versatility

Destru stat weight are really close (haste is really important until 20 to 25% and then loose values) so if you doesn't want to bother you with it take ilv as a reference (and keep a bit of haste).

[Deleted]

Is there any way to avoid this Conflag bug in "time shift" settings? Happened to me yesterday when I tried destro for Guldan heroic that the button appeared off cooldown but I could not press it for another couple seconds. Highly annoying as it throws the rotation.

At least for the cdf bug, there is a workaround by not queuing it directly after the first immolate, but for the "stuck" conflag, I really don't know how to avoid it?

[Deleted]

Changelog:

1.1.1 (1/22/2017) - 7.1.5
Channel Demonfire no longer AoEs

When did they announce this one? Or do you just mean that it does't work with havoc anymore like it used to.

[Deleted]

Is there any way to avoid this Conflag bug in "time shift" settings?

Personally I'm trying to avoid casting Conflagrate on CD. Just let the time go and use it when the 2nd charge is halfway through.

[Deleted]

Can someone tell me, how to use CDF and SH?? i cant find it on the 1st pages of this guide? CDF on CD?