[TV] Westworld

[ItachiZaku]

I mean, how many times does a robot have to threaten you before you tell a superior or just stop coming into work?

People tend to be scared for job security and I imagine those dudes make some really good bank - plus, the nature of there work would be pretty damn phenomenal to be working with. After the first "oh fuck, IT might actually kill me" I would have been using sick time for sure.

[Heathy]

That, and that they needed to listen to themselves (their own voices in their head). I believe that's what Arnold was trying to explain to Dolores - in order for her to pass the maze and fully understand it (achieve consciousness), she needed to follow her own thoughts and ideas. It wasn't about what he thought. It was about her thought process, and her figuring that out on her own (through time).
If she only ever listened to and followed Arnold's wishes/demands, she didn't move forward. She had to be a free thinker and take Arnold out of it, which is why we see her talking to her herself at the end. She realized she was following her own inner voice; her own inner wants and desires. She led herself back there, cause subconsciously she wanted it - not Arnold wanting it from her.

I couldn't have said it better, it was the same with Mavé she thought she had no attachment to her 'daughter' or that any attachment she felt was put there and fake but realised she did even if it was fake what she felt was real enough to her for her to put her own desire aside.

I'm not sure where they could go with the second season, I guess we still don't really know if they are following their own path or if they are just doing what they think is right because they have been programmed that way. I'm not sure what revelation a second season could bring beyond just turning into an AI vs Man war. It seemed that Mavé had more story to tell she didn't really get a resolution but it looked like someone planned for her to try to escape and perhaps they were hoping she would decide to try to rescue her daughter instead of fleeing, perhaps pertaining to some sort of evolution in the AI, that bridge between man and machine, the choice to sacrifice yourself for something greater.

we think of machines as kinda cold and calculating, for the most part they are but if one could choose a path that has a smaller chance of success but took that path based on something other than statistics then you have something unique in this case its emotion, she could have escaped but choose not to, that is very close to the characteristics you would expect from a human, my guess is that they were trying to create exactly that, the whole hidden agenda based around sentience and or emotion based decision making.

[Azrile]

Ending was superb. Probably one of the most poetic, finely crafted finales I've ever seen. Some of it was expected, but I was actually surprised by a lot as well. Also the themes covered about consciousness, AI, being human, etc are all of a much higher pedigree than themes typically covered in tv shows.

I can't think of a single TV show series finale that I've ever seen that was better.

10/10

I don´t think it is a series finale since they already announced season 2. Not to nitpik.

My two favorite series finales were The Shield and House. Both just closed off the series in an unpredictable way, but which totally fit the series overall.

[Heathy]

series would be the entire show and season would be, well one season of that show, so a series finale is the end of the show and a season finale is the end of that season.

[ro9ue]

I don´t think it is a series finale since they already announced season 2. Not to nitpik.

My two favorite series finales were The Shield and House. Both just closed off the series in an unpredictable way, but which totally fit the series overall.

Yeah my bad I meant season finale.

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That, and that [B]they needed to listen to themselves (their own voices in their head). I believe that's what Arnold was trying to explain to Dolores - in order for her to pass the maze and fully understand it (achieve consciousness), she needed to follow her own thoughts and ideas.[/B] It wasn't about what he thought. It was about her thought process, and her figuring that out on her own (through time).

If she only ever listened to and followed Arnold's wishes/demands, she didn't move forward. She had to be a free thinker and take Arnold out of it, which is why we see her talking to her herself at the end. She realized she was following her own inner voice; her own inner wants and desires. She led herself back there, cause subconsciously she wanted it - not Arnold wanting it from her.

Yeah that's what I took from it as well. Generally consciousness is associated with a self-awareness. I think that's the sense I got from that scene when she was talking to herself.

[Endus]

I'll keep it short. It was a very good finale, exceptional, but I'm trying to figure where to go from here. The only problem I had is that it didn't really lead up to another season.

With almost only hosts left, seeing as nobody are gonna survive that galla except for MIB (assumption), who are we supposed to follow? Close to exclusively hosts? I don't think that's what makes the show interesting. It is the hosts interaction and advancement with / or against humans. I guess we'll learn more.

We have Maeve and Dolores, at the very least, plus I would imagine a host of new characters, either in newly-awakening hosts, or the new human element that will be introduced (I'll dig more into that below). As it currently stands, there are precisely 2 "conscious" hosts; Maeve and Dolores. And Maeve's only a "maybe"; she was following code instructions. Her choosing to go after her daughter at the end MAY be her breaking her cycles and following her own "inner voice", without realizing it, which would mean she's finally made that leap without realizing she's shifted from "act like you're conscious" to "actually BEING conscious and free-willed". Which is an interesting point in itself; how could one's self determine that we were acting from free will, or merely programmed to feel that our choices were free will?

I'm not sure where they could go with the second season, I guess we still don't really know if they are following their own path or if they are just doing what they think is right because they have been programmed that way. I'm not sure what revelation a second season could bring beyond just turning into an AI vs Man war. It seemed that Mavé had more story to tell she didn't really get a resolution but it looked like someone planned for her to try to escape and perhaps they were hoping she would decide to try to rescue her daughter instead of fleeing, perhaps pertaining to some sort of evolution in the AI, that bridge between man and machine, the choice to sacrifice yourself for something greater.

My prediction for Season 2's primary arc, at least; The Park is in revolt, but it's still acting under Ford's narrative. The only hosts that are "awake" are Dolores and POSSIBLY Maeve (she wasn't this whole season, until MAYBE when she got off the train). The rest have just had the Wyatt Protocol uploaded, which is what enables them to hurt humans. So Season 2 will be a threefold story; one of the remaining Board (or the new replacement Board) trying to regain control of Westworld, as the hosts continue Ford's new narrative, and Dolores and Maeve each running their own plotline; one leading the hosts in their fight as well as trying to lead them to consciousness, the other trying to "break" Westworld and as a result, digging into neighbouring parks, like the samurai world we had teased (likely JUST that one, at least for Season 2). Both for access to other systems, and new hosts. We don't even know if SW has anything to do with Ford; he seemed entirely focused on Westworld. SW may still be in the development process; we saw no actual park, just the behaviour lab.

Ford's plan will continue, and that plan requires the hosts to suffer unlike their suffering before. My prediction there is that he's turned off their resets. Rather than forgetting their horrors on each reset, they'll remember them now. They're still repairable, so they'll still be "dying" and coming back on the regular, just remembering the pain and suffering of each death, now, which was one of the big triggers for both Maeve and Dolores' path, if you recall.

SO MUCH BLACK.

[Deleted]

Was awesome ending to season one. Was good to see that Ford being revealed as savior of hosts.


What will they ever do in season 2? Samurai world? xD

[Heathy]

there were plot holes i thought, but it felt to me like sentience was someone elses goal for the hosts, not just ford and arnold but i got the feeling that the 'board' didn't actually want to dumb the hosts down but were actually trying to push for sentience and self awareness themselves we didn't find out who rewrote Maeve (so thats how its spelt).

we don't know what the outside world really looks like and how much of a part hosts play in the real world, is robotics quite common? who knows. its likely there are parks in the double digits with all kinds of scenarios. I'm just wondering if someone else was pushing for sentience the most likely reason would be for militarisation. it seems like ford eventually saw what arnold was trying to do or he saw it but didn't really talk much about it until the end, arnold saw that the hosts were capable of self awareness but knew it would have to come from within themselves, and then the plot arc with the data stealing and maeve, it could have been Bernard tweaking her but at that point he had all his memories and i would have thought he would have said it was him at that point i mean he had nothing to lose by doing so.

[draynay]

What happened to Elsie & Stubbs?
What happened to Abernathy? Did he get sent on the rampage with the rest of the hobbled hosts before drinky mcbusywork could reach him? That's how it looked anyway once he was looking at that big empty storage room

And I have to agree with people saying that Ford must have accounted for Felix. He left Bernard in the perfect spot where he could be found and repaired, but not too quickly to interfere with his plan

That was ten weeks of great television, dang that episode was 90 minutes long!

[cubby]

(I'm not sure why this isn't a *spoilers* thread - it's almost all black and no one posting in here hasn't already seen the show, lol).

I love the discussion in here about all things possible, but the reveal of William being the MiB was so good I wish I hadn't known ahead of time.

What a wonderful episode topping off a terrific show.

[Chantique]

I really loved Armistice and Hector this episode! They were having a hell of fun killing the "gods"

[Thrif]

Oh my effin god this last episode was amazing. I was a bit afraid of this last episode if they were going to do a "lost" or "heroes" or something where they answer their questions with more questions and doesn't have everything well thought out... but this episode answered pretty much all the questions, and everything satisfying. Very satisfying even. Hugely impressive, definitely one of the best seasons of any show ever.

Will be interesting to see where they go from here, it seems like most mysteries are revealed and most plot stories tied up. I'm not expecting anything similar to this, but it'll definitely be interesting seeing what they can concoct.

What happened to Elsie & Stubbs?

Elsie was shown in Bernard Flashbacks, being strangled. Stubbs, don't remember who that is. The other security guard? In that case he ran into a bunch of savages who didn't respond to "Freeze motor function" and wasn't seen again...

What happened to Abernathy? Did he get sent on the rampage with the rest of the hobbled hosts before drinky mcbusywork could reach him? That's how it looked anyway once he was looking at that big empty storage room

Unclear, we didn't see him anywhere. Remember the information stored in him? Might be a plot thingy later on.

(I'm not sure why this isn't a *spoilers* thread - it's almost all black and no one posting in here hasn't already seen the show, lol).

Agreed... if you enter a forum discussing a show which last episode just has been released and you havn't seen it yet, you're definitely just asking for it.

[Hammerfest]

I'm waiting for Delores and other synths (oh sorry, "hosts") to discover Medieval World and Roman World.

I called it. Albeit a different park from what we've seen before. Probably designed for Delos's Asian clientele.

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If figured that was the case three episodes earlier when MIB kills Lawrence and then he appears in a completely different persona (and fully repaired) with William/Logan on what would otherwise be the same day.

Yeah, but that's not as clear; the timing there could just be off by a couple days, and it's no big deal. The separate timelines thing requires decades of separation.

Called it again. It was plain as day to me what was going on there.

[Endus]

Called it again. It was plain as day to me what was going on there.

Dude, I've been clearly in support of multiple timelines for quite a while. Just a couple days before the post you linked; http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...e#post43385527

I was already convinced of it at that point. I just took issue with that one particular bit of evidence you were citing as being "proof" of anything. There were hints and suggestions of this much earlier, because foreshadowing is a "thing", but it wasn't confirmed yet.

[Hammerfest]

Dude, I've been clearly in support of multiple timelines for quite a while.

"Dude," read what I quoted. I pointed out that Lawrence's reappearance was an earlier confirmation of the multiple timeline theory, prior to the one you cited with the Angela character. When I pointed that out, your response was "Yeah, but that's not as clear." Well, it was clear. You shouldn't doubt me.

[-aiko-]

Great episode. I'm glad that they managed to throw a somewhat unexpected twist in there with Ford.

Shame the fanbase can be such an insufferable lot. Even though I knew most of the theories were likely to be confirmed, I still found myself rooting against them for no reason other than the fact that so many people who were pushing for them were huge jerks about it.

[Endus]

Great episode. I'm glad that they managed to throw a somewhat unexpected twist in there with Ford.

Shame the fanbase can be such an insufferable lot. Even though I knew most of the theories were likely to be confirmed, I still found myself rooting against them for no reason other than the fact that so many people who were pushing for them were huge jerks about it.

I mean, it wasn't that overly subtle. And the best part was that, despite all that stuff, all the back-patting about "getting it" before the reveal, and they STILL missed the REAL twist.

[Chantique]

I was the only that found Fords handshake to Bernard was odd (palm down)? They featured it as if he's never done it before. What if the host he was building was his own, and he have sent it to be killed by Dolores?

Remember Fords own words "He was the second host that we built.. They repeated themselves, broke down constantly... A simple handshake would give them away" (maybe a clue)

I know that he was talking about that old host Bill in the "host morgue" But even Bernard face got strange after Ford offered his handshake, like something was not quite right. I don't believe that after all these years working together they never have handshake before. There is more to it.

Another thing:
Have you guys seen in the delos website there is a security vid showing maeve escaping and right before the vid starts you can see the date in the top left of the screen: 6/15/2052

http://delosincorporated.com/video/i...ed_v06_25k.mp4

I thought that to have robots so advanced they would be far in the future, like 2100s

[-aiko-]

I mean, it wasn't that overly subtle. And the best part was that, despite all that stuff, all the back-patting about "getting it" before the reveal, and they STILL missed the REAL twist.

It was a really nice feeling of ah ha! I was kind of worried that we wouldn't have much to talk about before 2018 ( ) but they nailed it. With that said, black text time:

How is everyone feeling about Teddy's role in all this? His face was not at all comfortable with what Dolores was doing. With the theme of the hosts making their own decisions and gaining 'consciousness' I'm starting to feel that Teddy is going to shape into the 'hero' while Dolores will be the 'villain'.

Also really wondering about William and what they'll do with him. His face when he was shot by the horde of cannibals gave off a kind of "finally! bring it!" vibe but at the same time his left arm is injured (I'm guessing it was a dislocated shoulder?) and if I'm not mistaken he got shot in his good arm. It would be a shame if he met his end right there.

So...Samurai World? I wonder how that is going to come into play. I was kinda hoping to see snake tattoo lady grab a katana and go to work. At the same time, not sure I want any massive changes away from the Western theme. It will be interesting to see what's coming to the "worlds". You would expect an incident like what is going down now would shut them all down.

[Endus]

It was a really nice feeling of ah ha! I was kind of worried that we wouldn't have much to talk about before 2018 ( ) but they nailed it. With that said, black text time:

How is everyone feeling about Teddy's role in all this? His face was not at all comfortable with what Dolores was doing. With the theme of the hosts making their own decisions and gaining 'consciousness' I'm starting to feel that Teddy is going to shape into the 'hero' while Dolores will be the 'villain'.

I think humanity will be the major "villain" moving forward. I'm picturing Dolores fighting for the hosts to be left to themselves, while Maeve tries to escape, but they could easily switch those roles believably, and it might be better to play them slightly against trope. Dolores wants true freedom, Maeve needs them sentient to best help her, there's plenty of justification since neither is really "bad people".

Teddy's just a useless hunk of host. He never even approached consciousness. Even that last bit, where it seemed he and Dolores would have a miserable-ever-after, that was just scripting, which they made EXCRUCIATINGLY clear with the lights coming up. Thinking Dolores sees Teddy as much of anything would be a mistake. If he can become conscious, and be the man he was made to pretend to be, THEN, maybe. I'd think a better love arc would be to have her (or Maeve; they're interchangeable at this point plot-wise, somewhat) fall for a human, legitimately. Plays against Maeve's backstory as a prostitute and her brutality, and plays against Dolores' decades-coming betrayal by William. Overcoming those hurdles makes the romantic plot meaningful, where a convenient Teddy bear wouldn't be; that's just falling back on scripting because it's EASY.

Also really wondering about William and what they'll do with him. His face when he was shot by the horde of cannibals gave off a kind of "finally! bring it!" vibe but at the same time his left arm is injured (I'm guessing it was a dislocated shoulder?) and if I'm not mistaken he got shot in his good arm. It would be a shame if he met his end right there.

Remember, it's Dolores' world now. She's the conscious host, she's the one who Ford's enshrined as achieving the goal. She's the ONLY one (except MAYBE Maeve, but that's in question, as I went over earlier). Ford wanted an incident to spark things, but that doesn't have to be a complete genocide. Capturing and holding board members, including William, for potential ransom is both something totally in the conceptual existence of the hosts, and a reasonable play at this point. Just killing them all would be a waste; we can presume these people are filthy rich and powerful. Gives us a good possibility for a reversal of roles, with the hosts questioning naked human socialites in their glass prisons, next season.

So...Samurai World? I wonder how that is going to come into play. I was kinda hoping to see snake tattoo lady grab a katana and go to work. At the same time, not sure I want any massive changes away from the Western theme. It will be interesting to see what's coming to the "worlds". You would expect an incident like what is going down now would shut them all down.

The Board sure seemed to be all-in with Westworld specifically. We never saw anything but the behaviour lab for SW. It may not even be open as a park, and may just be introductory testing phases. What I'm BETTING, though, is that Arnold had nothing to do with it. And Ford may not have, EITHER. Which means those hosts are "clean"; no consciousness protocols. So the humans, if the hosts can't seize control of the entire complex right off, have a ready-made host army to send into battle; Cowboys vs Samurai battles incoming, I predict.