About that combat revamp

[zito]

Spire is basically Royal Road fodder so you can get the AoE effect for another card buff (preferrably balance, arrow being next best).

how much tp do you even get out of spire? It's also 15 seconds which is like why

[Kazgrel]

how much tp do you even get out of spire? It's also 15 seconds which is like why

Not certain; 90% of all my relevant dpsing experience has been as BLM, so only time I ever need TP is if I'm using sprint, lol.

[Melsiren]

how much tp do you even get out of spire? It's also 15 seconds which is like why

You know when you burn your self really bad, and you put the cream the doctors give to you on said burn, and you know the cream is helping but the situation sill fucking sucks? That's the spire card.


On a serious note, I'm pretty sure the card doubles passive Tp generation.

[zito]

You know when you burn your self really bad, and you put the cream the doctors give to you on said burn, and you know the cream is helping but the situation sill fucking sucks? That's the spire card.


On a serious note, I'm pretty sure the card doubles passive Tp generation.

I looked it up gives a total of 150 TP over it's duration 225 enhanced

it's 100% garbage :l

If it was 30 seconds maybe it would be useful, but i'd rather re draw for a better card

[Kazgrel]

I looked it up gives a total of 150 TP over it's duration 225 enhanced

it's 100% garbage :l

If it was 30 seconds maybe it would be useful, but i'd rather re draw for a better card

Ouch...it would need to be double those values to actually be worthwhile, imo. Definitely better off redrawing if you already have the AoE effect from Royal Road...lol, here have an ewer instead. :-/

The card roller coaster is why I still prefer WHM whenever I do play healer, yet when I'm on a dps, I'd rather have an AST healer feeding me those cards. Hypocrite, I know.

[Scufflegrit]

Not certain; 90% of all my relevant dpsing experience has been as BLM, so only time I ever need TP is if I'm using sprint, lol.

It's always seemed completely backwards to me that healers and casters get so much more use out of sprint during combat than tanks and physical dps. I think it should be reworked during the combat revamp. I'd like something along the lines of it draining your TP as long as you keep sprint active, but it would drain more slowly for tanks/physical dps - using the logic that sprinting is easier for them because they're more physically fit than casters and healers.

[zito]

I never understood why it drained TP in the first place cause it's on a 30 second CD

it's just weird

[Razael]

Ehh any1 wonder if they'll add roles to classes via specs ? As a way to trim down on ability bloat? By having certain abilities only for tank spec and others for DPS ? Like Warrior DPS , or Ninja Tank etc? And make further use of traits to add effects like Emnity to abilities / healing to Bards songs etc? Just half assed idea, im sure some one could have better examples.

[Melsiren]

Ehh any1 wonder if they'll add roles to classes via specs ? As a way to trim down on ability bloat? By having certain abilities only for tank spec and others for DPS ? Like Warrior DPS , or Ninja Tank etc? And make further use of traits to add effects like Emnity to abilities / healing to Bards songs etc? Just half assed idea, im sure some one could have better examples.

I highly doubt they would do any thing like that.

Jobs, both healers and tanks being able to deal damage is a very much so intended part of the game, it's expected at the higher levels of play to maximize damage no matter what role you play.

I like it, but I'm speaking as a vengeance cheesing scumbag tank from the MoP Era.

[StrawberryZebra]

Just half assed idea, im sure some one could have better examples.

On the subject of half assed ideas, what's up with assigning attribute points anyway? It's not as if you're going to suddenly decide that you need more MP as a Dragoon, so you're going to invest a couple of points into Piety. No, they're going into strength without a second thought. Is there really any point presenting it to the player as being a choice? It's a choice with one very clear right answer thats immediately obvious to the player, so it's not really a choice at all.

[Anastacy]

On the subject of half assed ideas, what's up with assigning attribute points anyway? It's not as if you're going to suddenly decide that you need more MP as a Dragoon, so you're going to invest a couple of points into Piety. No, they're going into strength without a second thought. Is there really any point presenting it to the player as being a choice? It's a choice with one very clear right answer thats immediately obvious to the player, so it's not really a choice at all.

Swapping jobs?

Although, is 35 points really that much of a difference?

Here's my wishlist: get rid of Cleric stance, and roll in bonus dmg/healing where appropriate.

[The Casualty]

On the subject of half assed ideas, what's up with assigning attribute points anyway? It's not as if you're going to suddenly decide that you need more MP as a Dragoon, so you're going to invest a couple of points into Piety. No, they're going into strength without a second thought. Is there really any point presenting it to the player as being a choice? It's a choice with one very clear right answer thats immediately obvious to the player, so it's not really a choice at all.

It's mostly just a relic from 1.0. and agreed it needs to go. Only the Arcanist class ever changes points, and that's predicated on whether you are maining SMN or SCH, and even that is rather cumbersome.

[StrawberryZebra]

Swapping jobs?

Although, is 35 points really that much of a difference?

Here's my wishlist: get rid of Cleric stance, and roll in bonus dmg/healing where appropriate.

You get to assign the points for each job independently anyway. Your points spent in Gladiator will never have any affect on the ones you spend in Pugilist, or Archer etc. You basically get 35 more of your main stat that you need to click the button every couple of levels to recieve.

As for Cleric Stance, think of it kind of like Shadowform from WoW. You can either be a DPS or a Healer, but not both at once. It's an important safety valve for the games design, allowing healers to function outside of groups without being totally crippled. It also gives a longer mastery curve for playing a healer too, since you can contribute to your groups damage too should the need arise. But get it wrong and you can end up dooming everyone to a quick wipe. Not having that valve in place could end up with healers being too good at too many things with no trade off.

[lawow74]

It's mostly just a relic from 1.0. and agreed it needs to go. Only the Arcanist class ever changes points, and that's predicated on whether you are maining SMN or SCH, and even that is rather cumbersome.

Also agreed, bake it into the jobs and be done.

[zito]

As for Cleric Stance, think of it kind of like Shadowform from WoW. You can either be a DPS or a Healer, but not both at once.

You can't dps or heal at the same time anyway, no moves like that exist. If you want to dps you spend a GCD on damage, if you want to heal you spend a GCD on healing

the only thing cleric stance does is add an extra button to the process, competetant healers are already stance dancing (since it's off the GCD anyway you can just hit it while casting to que it) all this does is add a pointless extra button which if their design goal for stormblood is still about removing pointless shit then there we go

[Kazgrel]

It's always seemed completely backwards to me that healers and casters get so much more use out of sprint during combat than tanks and physical dps. I think it should be reworked during the combat revamp. I'd like something along the lines of it draining your TP as long as you keep sprint active, but it would drain more slowly for tanks/physical dps - using the logic that sprinting is easier for them because they're more physically fit than casters and healers.

This same train of thought occurred to me long ago. "How come I pretty much have to avoid the sprint button in combat as a MNK (a job that if anything would consist of physical fitness) yet can push that button with reckless abandon when I'm playing any sort of caster (who one would likely associate more with reading for hours on end instead of trying to break or lift boulders)".

Have sprint on a 30 second cd as it is, and maybe if used in combat, reduce duration by half.

- - - Updated - - -

On other topics...

Stat point allocation: Zero tears shed if they simply bake this in. It's an illusion of choice if anything, and a poor one at that.

Cleric Stance: It has to stay due to *drumroll* pvp implications. Either it remains, or if that amount of damage is baked into healers, their damage output in pvp would have to be reduced drastically (since CS can't be used in pvp at all).

[zito]

Cleric Stance: It has to stay due to *drumroll* pvp implications. Either it remains, or if that amount of damage is baked into healers, their damage output in pvp would have to be reduced drastically (since CS can't be used in pvp at all).

they already do that with some skills so I don't see the problem in it

[Anastacy]

You get to assign the points for each job independently anyway. Your points spent in Gladiator will never have any affect on the ones you spend in Pugilist, or Archer etc. You basically get 35 more of your main stat that you need to click the button every couple of levels to recieve.

Ah...I took the SMN/SCH interaction with the points to mean that it worked that way between any job (I've only really played WHM, SCH, and SMN).

[StrawberryZebra]

You can't dps or heal at the same time anyway, no moves like that exist. If you want to dps you spend a GCD on damage, if you want to heal you spend a GCD on healing

There are oGCD heals. There are also oGCD attacks too. Having to toggle Cleric Stance is all that really prevents me from cranking out massive healing and significant damage at the same time as a Scholar.

Being locked into doing just one or the other forces me to choose which is most appropriate for any given situation. It's a choice that also comes with consequences, if you're too aggressive with Cleric Stance you can cause some preventable wipes. If you're not aggressive enough with it your group DPS might be too low to make certain checks built into the fights.

That kind of choice makes for good gameplay. It offers some very clear cut success and failure states, providing feedback for the player to develop their own mastery of their role. Removing that choice would allow poor healers to succeed without any obvious feedback on how to improve, while also denying skilled healers the opportunity to distinguish themselves.

I agree that choice could probably be more pronounced, such as by giving Cleric Stance a longer deactivation timer. Just baking the damage into Healers is going to just break them, which then has to be followed up by completely gutting their damage output to restore some game balance.

[Gibblewink]

Cleric Stance also has a CD, so once applied it can't be turned off for a few seconds. That makes its use a matter of choice: Having activated it just as you need to do some heavy healing has serious implications and no, you can't remove the buff by r-clicking.
Stat point allocation is pretty much an illusion I'll grant and the only semi-sensible point in the TP cost to Sprint would be as a gap opener in pvp.