Flying 7.2 Confirmed

[Dsc]

I've done every criteria remotely possible, besides PVP mythic raiding (retired shit got old) and. M+5 dungeons.

The pve content on high end I could get done, but Blizz won't alienate people like that. And PVP I'd blow a gasket with prob 9/10ths of subs.
Oh and I need to finish off Macross rep this week with DMF.

They'll add some new stuff, but I can't see them making it unrealistic to do. Reps, treasures, rares and quests should cover it.

[Dhrizzle]

I am prepared to support flying in 7.3 **IF** BLizzard actively design Argus from the ground up to be a flying-necessary world. Not a world you happen to be able to fly in just for the sake of uber-convenience. Something like an extreme Storm Peaks and Icecrown on crack. If Argus is fucking-blown-apart world, the opportunity is there.

If however, it'll just be 'a normal zone', then it should be similar to Isle of Thunder etc and no-flying while its current.

EIther way can work and depends how Blizzard plans to design it from the ground up.

Not like Icecrown I hope, it was most disappointing when the big, bad Scourge turned out to be glorified scenery you could leisurely float over.

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I have yet to meet a "happy" anti-flier. XD

I'm pretty happy.

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They probably will. As a pro-flyer and pro-new system all the way I can only take joy in the fact that flying is here to stay, just in a new package for how it's obtained.

1. WoD was designed without flying in mind. Did that make world content in that expansion good? No, HELL no.
2. Legion has been designed with flying in mind from the start. Has it been less populated and fun? No.
3. Even when we can fly, you'd have to actively try and avoid other people seeing as how NO DAMNED OBJECTIVES CAN BE FINISHED WHILST FLYING! Add to that the fact that many won't bother getting flight.

How is Legion designed for flight any more than WoD was? The Pathfinder system we ended up with is virtually the same as Blizzard was considering going in to WoD.

We've had several great, fun expansions where we could fly @ max level instantly, acting as if it'll somehow erase the foundation laid out in Legion is borderline retarded.

I liked the world content in TBC, WotLK and Cata because it was a nice change of pace from raids or heroic dungeons. With MoP making the world content more important, coupled with the terrible 5-man content, I found that expansion to be least enjoyable. Legion has been far better, I even sent more time in WoD despite then content being less stretched/poorly incentivised.

Time that the anti-flying people got over the fact that a game which had flying for most of its lifetime, will continue having it.

I think most of the people branded "anti-flying" wanted and expected flight to be unlocked somewhere towards the end of the expansion. Personally I thought we'd have to pay for alts to fly so Pathfinder is a great bonus for me.

[purebalance]

Easy fix. Just put in a quest similar to pathfinder. Complete that and allow flying. Difference being, put the whole damn quest in so if people want to actually complete it. They can. If you want to take your time, you can do that too. Up to the player.

Be upfront about it right from the start. Design that quest to be entirely in at content/area launch. No BS of you can complete it later at some random time/patch.

Sure, you will still get a few that complain but nothing like the vague, mid expansion BS or the crap that happened with WoD.

No because it will take away from the content. 7.2 will unlock it elsewhere because you have had time to do the things flying trivializes. We had flying in MoP and didn't in the new zones added.

And no, they don't need to hand it to you immediately. Just stop. The entitlement is strong in this one.

[quras]

No because it will take away from the content.

No it wouldn't. Just have pathfinder cover the majority of the grind content in the new area so gamers do it at least once. After that, let them flying if they are going to grind it anyway or do world quests. No reason to be grounded at that point.

Wouldn't take away from teh content at all except the shitty as design to keep gamers on the ground and that ok.

7.2 will unlock it elsewhere because you have had time to do the things flying trivializes. We had flying in MoP and didn't in the new zones added.

Then design pathfinder in any new area to be similar but put it all in at once so gamers know what they are getting and can work toward. No reason to hold flying out if all you are worried about is wanting gamers to do the content a few times. Design that into pathfinder.

And no, they don't need to hand it to you immediately. Just stop. The entitlement is strong in this one.

I see you have little imagination or skills in design work. It's got nothing to do with entitlement but simply not hindering parts of the game I have enjoyed using when trying to get to areas of the world I actually want to be in. Content doesn't say fresh long enough to keep flying out for as long as they do.

[Queen of Hamsters]

No because it will take away from the content. 7.2 will unlock it elsewhere because you have had time to do the things flying trivializes. We had flying in MoP and didn't in the new zones added.

And no, they don't need to hand it to you immediately. Just stop. The entitlement is strong in this one.

Flying doesn't really trivialize things. There's even an item to buy now which prevents dazing, not that I can understand how anyone would feel even remotely endangered by the mobs that have been roaming the world since Classic. Save for riding through elite areas, but even then it's predictable AI.

The only thing which is "trivialized", is that you can't get stuck on weird places that LOOK traversible but for some reason are not... and of course, mountains.

[-Joker-]

You continue to entirely miss the point. :/

Not missing it. Burying it. Hoping to avoid the circle of pleasure that the pro-flight extremists seem to enjoy with one another. I'm just stating facts. We will have flight unlocked with 7.2. Anything beyond that is irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

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Doubt what? That there are other pro-flyers that make sure to finish requirements for flying asap? Thinking you're somehow special in that department?

LOL!

Not at all. I don't have snowflake syndrome like a handful of entitleds from the mega-thread.

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How did you go from 0 to exalted with the night fallen in 5 days?

http://www.wowhead.com/guides/nightfallen-reputation

It's a proven success.

[De Lupe]

Even though 7.2 will probably be a bit down the road, this is FAR sooner than I was expecting it (nice).


Since they buckled this soon (and even gave a patch for its arrival), I wonder if they have finally dumped the idea of delaying (or removing) flight in future expansions. Time will tell I guess.

They didn't buckle. They did exactly what they said they'd do. Delay flying until the game has been out for a while and gate it behind an achievement that you will already be working on throughout the expansion. Also, BoA, so only have to get it once.

I think they handled it perfectly this time. I approve of this method and look forward to seeing it used in the future.

[-Joker-]

1. Pathfinder Part One, speaks for itself
2. Defender of the Broken Isles. Probably has something to do with Invasions considering the Infernal moniker for its label.
3. Legionfall Commander. More than likely finish the 3 buildings in Legionfall, or become exalted with the Faction.
4. Explore Broken Shore. Speaks for itself.
5. Breaching the Tomb. Probably a questline leading up to raiding the Tomb.

So we've seen a slide, but don't actually have a final broken down in the patch notes or on WoWHead describing the details of completion. We can guess all day long. I was looking for something more definitive.

[Wingspan]

So we've seen a slide, but don't actually have a final broken down in the patch notes or on WoWHead describing the details of completion. We can guess all day long. I was looking for something more definitive.

Until 7.2 launches basically NOTHING is definitive. Even what they start out with on the 7.2 PTR will still be very subject to change right up until 7.2 hits the live servers.

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They didn't buckle. They did exactly what they said they'd do. Delay flying until the game has been out for a while and gate it behind an achievement that you will already be working on throughout the expansion. Also, BoA, so only have to get it once.

I think they handled it perfectly this time. I approve of this method and look forward to seeing it used in the future.

My use of the word "buckle" has drawn a lot of unintentional attention.

I did not mean it in the sense that Blizzard suddenly decided to buckle and add flight (which I realize now is what it sounds like). I meant it in the sense that during WoD they were notoriously vague about flight and tried to delay it, or even any mention of it, for as long as they could. This time, they actually answered the "When is it coming?" question a measly 2 months into the expansion... which compared to WoD, is buckling, at least in my opinion.

I am actually very pro flight and consider this a good sign for things to come (if we can get past some possible lame plan to have a patch after 7.2 have important new "grounded" zones in it).

[SirCowdog]

They didn't buckle. They did exactly what they said they'd do. Delay flying until the game has been out for a while and gate it behind an achievement that you will already be working on throughout the expansion. Also, BoA, so only have to get it once.

I think they handled it perfectly this time. I approve of this method and look forward to seeing it used in the future.

"Perfect" is a pretty strong word. I think that Pathfinder is still a relatively poor solution, but it's obviously better than having it at the end of the expansion like WoD, or not having flight at all.

Either way, there's definitely still room for improvement here.

[purebalance]

Flying doesn't really trivialize things. There's even an item to buy now which prevents dazing, not that I can understand how anyone would feel even remotely endangered by the mobs that have been roaming the world since Classic. Save for riding through elite areas, but even then it's predictable AI.

The only thing which is "trivialized", is that you can't get stuck on weird places that LOOK traversible but for some reason are not... and of course, mountains.

Really? So there weren't things and quests that actually required navigation of some sort that were somewhat fun that flying would have screwed over if Legion launched with flying. Just stop you're wrong. Flying would totally trivialize things they want to do in the Argus zone they make.

[Roxtar]

I like that they are implementing flight again, also class flying mount!

BUT I'd rather they make some no fly areas like in MoP, like Suramar City and some other elite mob areas, just like they did in with Isle of Giants and Isle of Thunder, pretty plx.

I am confused... What's stopping you from not using your flying ability in such areas? Nobody is forcing you to fly there right?

[-Joker-]

Until 7.2 launches basically NOTHING is definitive. Even what they start out with on the 7.2 PTR will still be very subject to change right up until 7.2 hits the live servers.

My point exactly

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I am confused... What's stopping you from not using your flying ability in such areas? Nobody is forcing you to fly there right?

Convenience and speed. Don't be dense. The question isn't even clever after so long.

[dexx]

I imagine the pathfinder achievement for this will be quite arduous.

[Thimagryn]

I am confused... What's stopping you from not using your flying ability in such areas? Nobody is forcing you to fly there right?

It's like those idiots who complain about LFR being mandatory when it's never been. If some idiot thinks they're forced to run LFR or complete pathfinder/use flying when they hate the mere idea of it, they have no reason to complain. It's completely optional content.

[TyrianFC]

I am confused... What's stopping you from not using your flying ability in such areas? Nobody is forcing you to fly there right?

You're confused because you're either naive or silly. Or potentially both. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're merely naive and explain for you:

We are playing an MMORPG. If you know what the 'mmo' part stands for, you'll understand why game systems/mechanics that are available to OTHER players are most certainly your business. To talk in extremes, once people are flying (in WoW at least) they are essentially removed from the game world - and if everyone was removed from the game world most of the time - id essentially be playing Skyrim and having a single player experience, if a single player experience was what I wanted. (And Skyrim is a great game - but it doesnt deliver the same kind of experience as WoW does - I play wow because of the MMO factor.).

So its not about how one player chooses to get around themselves: Of course they can fly, ground mount, walk, crawl or even walk backwards if they wish. But many people pick up and play World of Warcraft because of the 'world' aspect literally in the title, and they have expectations they will be in an MMO world filled with other players. So that means they, very rightfully, will have a vested interest and say in how they think other people should get around, because it directly comes back to them to determine their ingame experience and whether that aligns with their expectations of what WoW should be, as determined by its genre/title/positioning etc.

The above encompasses more than flight btw. Flight is just one factor in it. World Quests were a great example of a success in Legion in getting people into the world (which comes back to making world feel alive / deliver mmo experience etc etc).

Even pro-flight players want a world that feels alive. They just disagree very specifically on the aspect of how flight relates/integrates to this common 'world feels alive' goal - and whether the compromises (how it affects the greater game) / opportunity cost (often measured in time/convenience) - are tangible/acceptable enough to proceed.

[WowIsDead64]

It's like those idiots who complain about LFR being mandatory when it's never been. If some idiot thinks they're forced to run LFR or complete pathfinder/use flying when they hate the mere idea of it, they have no reason to complain. It's completely optional content.

Tweaking game for highest possible denominator - has always been a terrible idea. Hardcores are called this way for reason. If being effective for some players >> than playing, as he like, then, well, that's his problem - not ours. Who would catch fish must not mind getting wet. Don't hardcores think, that they want too much? They want to be effective to be successful in endgame content, like raids for example, and they also want to play the game, as they like? And all of this at the expense of other players? Yeah, they're special snowflakes, but not so special to make game personally for them.

[TyrianFC]

Tweaking game for highest possible denominator - has always been a terrible idea. Hardcores are called this way for reason. If being effective for some players >> than playing, as he like, then, well, that's his problem - not ours. Who would catch fish must not mind getting wet. Don't hardcores think, that they want too much? They want to be effective to be successful in endgame content, like raids for example, and they also want to play the game, as they like? And all of this at the expense of other players? Yeah, they're special snowflakes, but not so special to make game personally for them.

I personally think there should alawys be pinnacle content that is intended / designed to be out of reach/touch for all but very few.

I dont raid anymore and would never see such content im describing ingame myself - that doesnt affect my thoughts.

Its good for the game to have a stream of content for those people, and the rest of the community to watch on / aspire to do / be impressed by etc. There are limits in how many resources should be devoted to said content etc and how much they should do, but the principle is sound.

I think people underestimate the value having an elite-uber hardcore content clearing community brings... to the rest of the playerbase. Keeping the former happy also has positive flow on effects to the latter.

[SirCowdog]

You're confused because you're either naive or silly. Or potentially both. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're merely naive and explain for you:

We are playing an MMORPG. If you know what the 'mmo' part stands for, you'll understand why game systems/mechanics that are available to OTHER players are most certainly your business. To talk in extremes, once people are flying (in WoW at least) they are essentially removed from the game world - and if everyone was removed from the game world most of the time - id essentially be playing Skyrim and having a single player experience, if a single player experience was what I wanted. (And Skyrim is a great game - but it doesnt deliver the same kind of experience as WoW does - I play wow because of the MMO factor.).

So its not about how one player chooses to get around themselves: Of course they can fly, ground mount, walk, crawl or even walk backwards if they wish. But many people pick up and play World of Warcraft because of the 'world' aspect literally in the title, and they have expectations they will be in an MMO world filled with other players. So that means they, very rightfully, will have a vested interest and say in how they think other people should get around, because it directly comes back to them to determine their ingame experience and whether that aligns with their expectations of what WoW should be, as determined by its genre/title/positioning etc.

The above encompasses more than flight btw. Flight is just one factor in it. World Quests were a great example of a success in Legion in getting people into the world (which comes back to making world feel alive / deliver mmo experience etc etc).

Even pro-flight players want a world that feels alive. They just disagree very specifically on the aspect of how flight relates/integrates to this common 'world feels alive' goal - and whether the compromises (how it affects the greater game) / opportunity cost (often measured in time/convenience) - are tangible/acceptable enough to proceed.

This is all based off the idea that every area will be accessible via flight, which is not the case in reality. It also completely forgets the aspects of the flight master's whistle, teleports, hearths, portals, summons, and flight paths. The only reason people don't complain about those things is because they don't see them as easily. It's very simply to point at someone flying and get angry, but completely gloss over and forget someone disappearing at random due to a teleport.

It's exactly the same as people who only notice when they're doing poorly in a raid or pvp, and never realize or comment when they're doing well.

So basically the claim that flying is ruining people's immersion is complete and utter bullshit. That is a problem with THEM, not with the game or with flying. But, once again, I point out that this is a "problem" that could be completely avoided if Blizzard would use a more even-handed approach instead of just flipping the switch halfway through the expansion

[Thimagryn]

Tweaking game for highest possible denominator - has always been a terrible idea. Hardcores are called this way for reason. If being effective for some players >> than playing, as he like, then, well, that's his problem - not ours. Who would catch fish must not mind getting wet. Don't hardcores think, that they want too much? They want to be effective to be successful in endgame content, like raids for example, and they also want to play the game, as they like? And all of this at the expense of other players? Yeah, they're special snowflakes, but not so special to make game personally for them.

They tend to 'tweak' to all denominators. Optional content is optional for a reason. You can choose to do LFR, or Mythic, or both. There's no enforcement on any content. You can level to max through herbalism!