U.S. Presidential Election Day Megathread [Official]

[Deleted]

The world is not about fairness. There is no such thing as a "culture war". Liberals proclaim to have "won" it, but historically what happens is that cultural norms swing around like a pendulum. Liberals took the cultural war and 90's political correctness too far while ignoring REAL problems.

FDR would be rolling his grave seeing liberals attack unions left and right by supporting mega free trade deals.

The path of progress is not straight forward. It's often two steps forwards one step back. But the overall trend is progress. Even Trump would have been considered liberal a century ago. The old left becomes the new right and the new left blazes a trail. That's how it's always been. Trump's election is not proof that liberals went too far, he's proof that the fight is far from done and we need to double, triple and quadruple down on our ideals. Now what is true is that in 2020 the democrats need an anti-establishment candidate who can appeal to the struggling middle class as well as fighting against bigotry. After four years of Trump I'm hopeful that that won't be too hard.

[Fadeslol]

The path of progress is not straight forward. It's often two steps forwards one step back. But the overall trend is progress. Even Trump would have been considered liberal a century ago. The old left becomes the new right and the new left blazes a trail. That's how it's always been. Trump's election is not proof that liberals went too far, he's proof that the fight is far from done and we need to double, triple and quadruple down on our ideals. Now what is true is that in 2020 the democrats need an anti-establishment candidate who can appeal to the struggling middle class as well as fighting against bigotry. After four years of Trump I'm hopeful that that won't be too hard.

This sums it up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

Hes actually a real liberal, not a libtard

Update: I just realized someone just posted it ops

[Mafic]

It's not about the Christian groups themselves, but the individual Christians and how they wield their beliefs as a political weapon. If I walk into a church, I'll find a priest or a pastor who is sympathetic to the plight of the needy and tells me it is the job of all Christians to look after them. If I turn on a television, I'll see a Christian decrying the fall of the United States away from traditional values, who then moves on to tell me the poor are lazy and entitled and are just looking for handouts. They might even go on to tell me that the Middle East is full of terrible people who aren't like us and therefore need to be bombed. Whether they collectively do as individuals or do this as individual collectives is beside the point. They're still utilizing their religious beliefs to advance their political agendas to the detriment of others who they see as not like themselves.

The vast majority of Christians are not political and as the rift between Catholics and US government showed they try to stay out of it, because religions in the US should not be politicized as they lose special privileges the state is given them as a trade off for not being an integral part of the state (separation of church and state).

In an ironic twist by catering to certain other religions they have mobilized and unified the scattered, and fractured Christian sects by making it political.

[Mad_Murdock]

fantastic video sums it up so well, same thing happened with brexit, you have a difference of opinion that you were happy to debate the left would just call you a racist scum and just sing that tune over and over again no attempt at a discussion just lalalalal you are racist.

Dude seems pretty mad and I'm glad he is mad at his own party. If more in the Dem party felt like he did and was upset that the party took the easy way out with picking Hillary there is a chance real change can happen. Despite Trump winning, I think the republican party is going to be having the same soul searching discussions inside as well.

[Mafic]

The path of progress is not straight forward. It's often two steps forwards one step back. But the overall trend is progress. Even Trump would have been considered liberal a century ago. The old left becomes the new right and the new left blazes a trail. That's how it's always been. Trump's election is not proof that liberals went too far, he's proof that the fight is far from done and we need to double, triple and quadruple down on our ideals. Now what is true is that in 2020 the democrats need an anti-establishment candidate who can appeal to the struggling middle class as well as fighting against bigotry. After four years of Trump I'm hopeful that that won't be too hard.

What you call progress is actually a circular cycle that all civilization go through as the Romans called it.

Failure of alcohol prohibition = Marijuna?
Gilded age = Current income inequality
Monopolies = Mega mergers
Oil Wars = Water wars

I think I could go, but if what you said was true that progress is made every step of the way then we as humans wouldn't be repeating these mistakes. If Bush Presidency happened twice, then in theory a Trump Presidency would have been impossible. Right?

[Thepersona]

Kind of "off" from the current discussion chain but posted this on Reddit.

The problem I have with the whole thing is that the jobs many voted for Trump over won't be coming back at all. If the factory reopens, it would be another one running on a light staff with mostly automation.

I live in rural America. I live in a town that was decimated by local factories and plants closing down. And when you try to talk to these people, they legitimately believe that Trump can come through with his promise of golden ponies for all, can reopen those plants, and that every economist (and there's been an assload) and everyone who says they can't are just corporate shills that are lying and Trump is the only one telling the truth.

This election hit so close to home because of that. I've been alienated from my family because of trying to tell them the truth. They believe Trump can make good on his deals, that he's anti establishment, and discussion about the Supreme Court issue or his possible cabinet result in almost physical assault when they realize they may actually be wrong for even half a second.

All many Trump supporters see is anger. Not always racism or homophobia or xenophobia. But they voted and are blinded by anger at life. Anger that the establishment failed their rural towns. Anger that those glorious union jobs their parents had are gone forever. Trump harnessed that and rolled his way into office.

It doesn't matter how constructively you try to talk to a lot of these people, they don't want to hear it. But if and when it's finally revealed that Trump can't do it, there's going to be an immediate mass turn of heads and sense of dread when they realize they messed up.

I understand why they voted the way they did, but disagreed, and it's a shame that it led to this. The Dems need to tap back into this group and get them back on the right track. They're the first ones who will be so heavily punished when Trump doesn't come through, or worse, does come through on his tax plans and they realize they're the first who will suffer.

Oh, its their mistake. Let tjem suffer, they deserve it. In fact, when those factory jobs dont come back and their overall QoL is worse (because of the repeal of min wage and deregulations) you should say to them "i told you so, now please never vote again'

[DeadmanWalking]

While the stunner of this election is still washing over people the thing is the new people in power are not going to drain the swamp because the people responsible of doing so are the swamp. They will change the gators out for crocodiles and thats about it. This administration will grab too much, push for too much and a counter culture will, and always does, rise up, especially with a guy who is incapable of controlling his actions and words running the nation. It is going to be an interesting 4 years where I spend my time saying, "I told you so."

[Mafic]

It doesn't matter what the majority are doing though. If even just one person is doing it and is allowed to get away with it, the result is the same. That's the whole point. The people complaining Christians are being persecuted or other religions get special treatment are people who are by and large upset at the end of the de facto Christian status of this nation. Special protections for a religion that needs them to be on equal footing with a religion that doesn't are not special privileges. They are simply ensuring fair treatment for both groups in the current environment.

The US never had a de facto Christian status as a nation like a lot of European countries did because of the separation of the Church and State. The original formation of the Church and State concept was so minority Christians fleeing to form the colonies in continental North America could practice freely.

The only area where Christianity truly dominated US mindset was in the voting booth, as JFK had to overcome that hurdle as a Catholic and to convince Protestants, Lutherans, Baptists, etc.

US law is composed of Judean-Christian values infused with ancient Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Celtic and Persian ideas. Throw in some Hammarabian ideas and that is the backbone of not only the United State law but also U.N. law.

[Deleted]

This sums it up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

Hes actually a real liberal, not a libtard

Update: I just realized someone just posted it ops

Hillary was a poor candidate yes. That is the liberal's fault.

But this whole idea that if liberals had just shut up about important issues like racism, sexism, homophobia etc. then trump wouldn't have won is ridiculous. It's a means of trying to silence liberals. The people to blame for Trump's election are the people who voted for him. You can't play the chain of blame game and if you do, the fault falls back on Trump supporters anyway. Because why are liberals fighting against bigotry in the first place? Because of people like Trump and his supporters.

- - - Updated - - -

What you call progress is actually a circular cycle that all civilization go through as the Romans called it.

Failure of alcohol prohibition = Marijuna?
Gilded age = Current income inequality
Monopolies = Mega mergers
Oil Wars = Water wars

I think I could go, but if what you said was true that progress is made every step of the way then we as humans wouldn't be repeating these mistakes. If Bush Presidency happened twice, then in theory a Trump Presidency would have been impossible. Right?

Like I said, there will be steps back. And old problems will come back in new packages. But we have progressed. The rights of women, ethnic minorities, the lgbtqia community - it's miles ahead of where things where during the 20th century. The current right wing party once would have been considered liberal.

[Bullettime]

Oh, its their mistake. Let tjem suffer, they deserve it. In fact, when those factory jobs dont come back and their overall QoL is worse (because of the repeal of min wage and deregulations) you should say to them "i told you so, now please never vote again'

That attitude isn't how you win them back over though. The Dems dropped the ball hard on that group. The DNC in particular had Sanders as an option who WAS getting the support of that crowd by tapping into that anger but focusing it on constructive plans for the future.

After Sanders was eliminated, they gave so few fucks about that crowd while Trump whipped them into a frenzy. And it was ultimately that crowd that turned out and were able to tip the scale.

My point though is that I disagree with what they did but I do understand why they did it. Sure there were a lot of racism driven voters, but there were also a lot of on the fence voters that would have supported Sanders that felt alienated and angry and ultimately sided with Trump because he was the only candidate looking at them.

[Deleted]

Oh, its their mistake. Let tjem suffer, they deserve it. In fact, when those factory jobs dont come back and their overall QoL is worse (because of the repeal of min wage and deregulations) you should say to them "i told you so, now please never vote again'

That's not the attitude that's going to win the next election. After four years of Trump there'll be millions of disenfranchised blue collar workers angry at Trump's lies and all the left has to do is promise to fix things (and then actually try to) and Trump could lose 2020 in a landslide.

[minteK917]

Hillary was a poor candidate yes. That is the liberal's fault.

But this whole idea that if liberals had just shut up about important issues like racism, sexism, homophobia etc. then trump wouldn't have won is ridiculous. It's a means of trying to silence liberals. The people to blame for Trump's election are the people who voted for him. You can't play the chain of blame game and if you do, the fault falls back on Trump supporters anyway. Because why are liberals fighting against bigotry in the first place? Because of people like Trump and his supporters.

The video went right over your head, the 100 millions that did not vote went over your head. Trump took the opportunity the democrats gave him and thats all there is to it. Same went and is still going over in europe, the right rise on the opportunity they are given. When you walk in your college and are told you catn go in a certain section because you arent X demographic, you are exactly the same thing you pretend to fight. When you work harder and are poorer than what you used to be 20 years ago. This should be addressed reasonably by every single political party, it just happens that the only ones that actually do it are the right that simply use the fear of situations. The left simply gloss over it, because up until recently it was impossible for the world to not stay on its liberal swing. Just like the democrats did not even realize losing was even a possibility, even on the last day. All the corporate media and the "elites" thought it was a sure victory.

Also the "important" issues arent, they are the results of the important issue. The lower the quality of life, the worse it will get. You dont address the issue they have, you tell them they are racist for blaming immigrants and such, but thats all they are always told. One side tells them immigrants causes their problem. Other side just tells them they are all racist deplorable, who are you gona side with?

Give them a non status quo candiate and the left will win again.

[Deleted]

As with any small group, it's hard to get good statistics, but here is an article from the Health section of the Guardian:

Sex changes are not effective, say researchers
"For example, in a five-year study of 727 post-operative transsexuals published last year, 495 people dropped out for unknown reasons. Dr Hyde said the high drop out rate could reflect high levels of dissatisfaction or even suicide among post-operative transsexuals. He called for the causes of their deaths to be tracked to provide more evidence."

"A 1998 review by the Research and Development Directorate of the NHS Executive found attempted suicide rates of up to 18% noted in some medical studies of gender reassignment."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...h.mentalhealth

A 2003 study:
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity [diseased state] than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism.

Turns out you can't treat the mentally ill by mutilating them.

Shocker.

[Mafic]

Separation of Church and State only offers so much protection. It may have slightly weakened it, but it didn't prevent it from happening. May I remind you that things like "In God We Trust" were added to our currency rather recently as a fuck you to the "godless communists." The prevention of same-sex marriage and abortion are largely based on religious beliefs, regardless of the language they're couched in. Evolution was under attack previously as well. Separation of Church and State does protect us, but typically only eventually, when people who dare challenge the established way finally gain enough of a footing to challenge it. It is reactive, not proactive, and it offers limited protection, especially to the most cleverly disguised religiously motivated legislation.

What you said is true, but the communists took the idea of separation of church and state too far by suppressing all religion. This is not surprising that Russia as a state is swinging back to being very integrated with religion now (Russian Orthodox Church).

The prevention of same sex marriage is more on the grounds of how language is used. The failure of western government to coin another word for a civil union recognized by the state and given special privileges. Marriage is a hold over idea when church and state were united (Catholic/Orthodox Church) once upon a time.

In a state where there is a separation of church and state the word marriage should not be used as it implies religious significance. Furthermore, the state should not be involved in marriage anymore by giving special privileges and tax breaks, but that is a deeper social issue to unravel.

Reactive measure as it may be, it is iron clad and has held true to time. Proactive measures cause more reactionary measures by people, and thus animosity.

- - - Updated - - -

The video went right over your head, the 100 millions that did not vote went over your head. Trump took the opportunity the democrats gave him and thats all there is to it. Same went and is still going over in europe, the right rise on the opportunity they are given. When you walk in your college and are told you catn go in a certain section because you arent X demographic, you are exactly the same thing you pretend to fight. When you work harder and are poorer than what you used to be 20 years ago. This should be addressed reasonably by every single political party, it just happens that the only ones that actually do it are the right that simply use the fear of situations. The left simply gloss over it, because up until recently it was impossible for the world to not stay on its liberal swing. Just like the democrats did not even realize losing was even a possibility, even on the last day. All the corporate media and the "elites" thought it was a sure victory.

Also the "important" issues arent, they are the results of the important issue. The lower the quality of life, the worse it will get. You dont address the issue they have, you tell them they are racist for blaming immigrants and such, but thats all they are always told. One side tells them immigrants causes their problem. Other side just tells them they are all racist deplorable, who are you gona side with?

Give them a non status quo candiate and the left will win again.

Biggest example I can think of is registered Democrats using their personal example of how ACA is not working for them and their families with premiums rising unreasonably. Most other Democrats simply hand waved it off as being a minor problem.

[Deleted]

The video went right over your head, the 100 millions that did not vote went over your head. Trump took the opportunity the democrats gave him and thats all there is to it. Same went and is still going over in europe, the right rise on the opportunity they are given. When you walk in your college and are told you catn go in a certain section because you arent X demographic, you are exactly the same thing you pretend to fight. When you work harder and are poorer than what you used to be 20 years ago. This should be addressed reasonably by every single political party, it just happens that the only ones that actually do it are the right that simply use the fear of situations. The left simply gloss over it, because up until recently it was impossible for the world to not stay on its liberal swing. Just like the democrats did not even realize losing was even a possibility, even on the last day. All the corporate media and the "elites" thought it was a sure victory.

Also the "important" issues arent, they are the results of the important issue. The lower the quality of life, the worse it will get. You dont address the issue they have, you tell them they are racist for blaming immigrants and such, but thats all they are always told. One side tells them immigrants causes their problem. Other side just tells them they are all racist deplorable, who are you gona side with?

Give them a non status quo candiate and the left will win again.

I am not disagreeing with this. This election was a backlash against the left. I just think it's ridiculous to blame the left for the backlash rather than those making the backlash. If we hadn't of been loud about these issues we would not have made the progress we have made in the first place. Liberals fighting for the rights of the oppressed should not be blamed for this election.

Now where the democratic party is at fault is choosing Hillary Clinton as their nominee - a candidate who offered nothing except that she wasn't Trump, who promised to uphold the status quo many were struggling under, who was embroiled in scandals and shady dealings. This did lead to a lot of people begrudgingly voting trump (though at the same time they should still be blamed and called out for their ignorance and apathy). But the left is not at fault for pushing political correctness or having safe spaces at Universities etc. etc. We don't need to get quieter, we need to get louder. Trump won by whipping people up into a frenzy, the left needs to do the same over the next four years.

[Mafic]

There's absolutely no need to coin another word for it and the sudden onset pedantry displayed by vast swaths of people who no doubt "incorrectly" use language according to prescriptive standards on a daily basis, and likely respond poorly if called on doing so, is a piss poor veil for their obvious intentions. As far as conveying religious meaning goes, if you want to get religious, the technical term for the sacrament is "holy matrimony." "Marriage" is just fine and no attempt by Christian people to claim it as somehow belonging to religion or generally act in defiance of basic linguistic behavior is going to fly. They do not own the word and are incorrect to try to act as though it exclusively refers to religious things. It is simply a disguise for an argument against gay rights for people who believe they should remain second-class citizens do their poor "choice" of "lifestyle."

Holy matrimony isn't used in the English lexicon to describe marriage being part of the sacrament. When people think of marriage they think of weddings, which are often religious settings or private settings with zero to do with the state.

Also non Christian groups use marriage as part of a way to describe a union between two people in a religious or private setting, which again has nothing to do with the state.

Marriage idea is simply a hold over from when religion and state were interlocked. What the conservatives are wrong about is telling gay couples that a civil union is good enough when technically marriages recognized by the state should all be civil unions.

And most Christians receive a marriage license from their own church, so receiving a marriage license from the state as well is not only confusing, but only further makes the issue worse.

[Spectral]

Because why are liberals fighting against bigotry in the first place?

Status and ingroup signaling, mostly. Bigotry is less of a problem than it's ever been (especially in government and academia), but if you listened to the literal shrieking at universities and political rallies, you'd think it was an escalating problem that's worse than ever.

[Deleted]

Status and ingroup signaling, mostly. Bigotry is less of a problem than it's ever been (especially in government and academia), but if you listened to the literal shrieking at universities and political rallies, you'd think it was an escalating problem that's worse than ever.

Donald Trump was just elected president. Bigotry is still a massive problem in the world and we're about to see the four worst years for minorities since segregation.

[Spectral]

Donald Trump was just elected president. Bigotry is still a massive problem in the world and we're about to see the four worst years for minorities since segregation.

Why? What will happen to minorities over the next four years?

(Also, which minorities? I expect Asian people to be discriminated against less.)

[May90]

It's only built on racism to outsiders.

As an immigrant/"outsider", this "only" is a pretty big deal for me - and dozens millions other immigrants. Now, I'm not worried about Trump in this regard, he'll never do even 5% of what he's promised to do, it was just a way for him to get votes - what I'm worried about is that he got those votes, meaning a lot of people approve of his message. I'm not thrilled of the perspective to live in a society where people blame everything on immigrants, including me, and other minorities.

As someone long time ago said, "Today you refuse to protect your neighbor's rights, tomorrow your neighbor will refuse to protect yours".