AMD Zen processors...Are you interested?

[Artorius]

Bristol Ridge doesn't have integrated UEFI as far as I remember and it's also supposed to go on the same AM4 mobos.

[Gilgemesh]

Just because the RYZEN will be a SoC does not mean that the BIOS will be on the chip, if this were the case most motherboard features would be useless.
It just means that most hardware control would be on the chip for North- and Southbridge (PCIe lanes/Memory/iGPU(if applicable)/SATA/NVMe etc.)

It would also alienate any mobo manufacturer as their own features would not be present and AMD would have to programme all BIOS features for every brand separately.. which I really don't see happening.

upon further study with the current am4 knowledge, you're right, there will still be mobo bios. we just don't know if overclocking will be doable from the bios. I would hope that sort of control is still available. Hell, at this point we don't even know if we can do manual overclocking.

[Evildeffy]

upon further study with the current am4 knowledge, you're right, there will still be mobo bios. we just don't know if overclocking will be doable from the bios. I would hope that sort of control is still available. Hell, at this point we don't even know if we can do manual overclocking.

BIOS control will always be present as the OS is built around it, if it weren't there then Windows/Linux would have 0 clue WTF to do and it simply wouldn't work.
The BIOS tells the OS WTF the hardware is and how it's communicating and where it's located.

That overclocking tools work in Windows is because of some system control hooks the software uses the motherboard responds to so at any point in time.
In short ... without BIOS control your OS cannot do ANYTHING.

[Gilgemesh]

BIOS control will always be present as the OS is built around it, if it weren't there then Windows/Linux would have 0 clue WTF to do and it simply wouldn't work.
The BIOS tells the OS WTF the hardware is and how it's communicating and where it's located.

That overclocking tools work in Windows is because of some system control hooks the software uses the motherboard responds to so at any point in time.
In short ... without BIOS control your OS cannot do ANYTHING.

I know how it works.
That doesn't mean they won't force you to use the tools they provide in stead of manual bios settings.

no need to condescend.

please note that I was only speaking about overclocking, nothing else.

[Evildeffy]

I know how it works.
That doesn't mean they won't force you to use the tools they provide in stead of manual bios settings.

no need to condescend.

I beg your pardon?

I was not being condescending to you at all, I simply explained how it worked as it wasn't clear if you did.
The only time they limit BIOS controls are on business boards designed not to be dicked around with and this is ALWAYS at the discretion of the motherboard builder.

AMD/Intel does not and cannot dictate what manufacturers put in their BIOS builds as long as it adheres to chipset specifications.

This is also why f.ex. the previous i3 CPUs could be overclocked as it technically didn't break chipset specs but would require to use Intel's official microcode updates to remain officially certified.
Thus Intel parked in new microcode updates and the trick to overclocking those i3s were disabled.
The first motherboard maker that did this was actually SuperMicro which isn't known for high-end consumer boards but actually server boards.

[Chickat]

Actually Ryzen did the Blender test in 25,57 seconds where the 6900K did it in 26,01 seconds.

In essence you did it in 73 seconds vs. 25,57.

73 / 25,57 = 2,85 times as fast.

That's actually a substantial difference.

God my cpu sucks. 6600k took 104 seconds.

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I did have battlenet up with no games running, so its possible it could have completed a bit faster but that cpu is around 4 times faster at rendering. Crazy.

[Kazgrin]

Unless they do something drastic, not really.

I got burned on Bulldozer and never really forgave them.

[Vash The Stampede]

I wonder if Zen will force Intel to lower Skylake-X prices

That's generally how capitalism works.

God my cpu sucks. 6600k took 104 seconds.

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I did have battlenet up with no games running, so its possible it could have completed a bit faster but that cpu is around 4 times faster at rendering. Crazy.

No it doesn't. These tests are about multithreaded work loads, which games don't do. This is why you bought an i5 and not an i7. If games did scale very well with CPU threads, then i7 would be the standard and not the i5.

Unless they do something drastic, not really.

I got burned on Bulldozer and never really forgave them.

I'm using a Bulldozer and can't complain. What exactly did AMD's CPUs ever do to you?

[Life-Binder]

No it doesn't. These tests are about multithreaded work loads, which games don't do. This is why you bought an i5 and not an i7. If games did scale very well with CPU threads, then i7 would be the standard and not the i5.

some games already do scale and utilize an i7 over an i5

not the majority, but some for sure .. AAA titles among them

that said i5 isnt a bad choice right now either


BF1 Multiplayer is the only high-profile game Ive seen that can actually use a 6900K over a 6700K (aka push more than 8 threads) and gain something even if its not not big

. What exactly did AMD's CPUs ever do to you?

well the current AMD CPUs utterly suck in games, for one

I'm using a Bulldozer and can't complain.

you must not game or arent very picky in your gaming performances then

[Artorius]

So AMD has said that they indeed used official binaries downloadable from Blender's website and that the confusion was caused by wrong sampling configuration.

The ZEN ES results are 25 seconds with 100 samples and 36 seconds with 150 samples.

[Life-Binder]

is there a date for when it hits the shelves or a date for when the first full reviews come out ?

[Evildeffy]

is there a date for when it hits the shelves or a date for when the first full reviews come out ?

Likely during CES in January will it be officially released/all information popped out just like VERY likely Vega.

[Life-Binder]

January actual release ? aka CPUs on the shelves ? was that confirmed or implied by AMD ?



and I know Vega for consumers definitely isnt coming out in January, it will first come for professional/deep-learning market (MI25 or w/e its called) and only then the gaming versions

I wouldnt expect gaming Vega to be available earlier than March/April, maybe even a bit later

[mrgreenthump]

is there a date for when it hits the shelves or a date for when the first full reviews come out ?

This was a preview.. So as Evildeffy said, we will likely get much more info on CES, which is in January. I would expect reviewers to get their hand on the CPU's few weeks earlier than the actual release, but NDA's will likely be lifted on a certain date before or at the release.(We know AMD showed more in the closed doors press event that is still under NDA).

Also we still haven't seen any high-end AM4 boards officially release. So CES is the thing to look for.

CES is really shaping up to be a good show, 4k monitors with < 60Hz refresh, we will get tons of new hardware revials, maybe even finally see the new Noctua 120 mm fan.

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January actual release ? aka CPUs on the shelves ? was that confirmed or implied by AMD ?

I think he meant reveals.

[Life-Binder]

I hope CES sets a solid release/reviews date then

[McFuu]

I'm an AMD fan, my first system I build a long time back was AMD so they hold a special place in my heart. I recently upgraded to a i7-6700k from an AMD 8320... If Zen is really good and priced right, I may go for it for the hell of it, otherwise I may give it a year or 2 to mature. Most first run architecture has issues so this might be the better path. I held on for a long while waiting for Zen but gave in a couple months back when I found some deals on the i7 and mobo.

[Life-Binder]

for gaming no Zen will beat your OCd 6700K until games start fully utilizing 12/16 threads which will take at least a few years


for multi-threaded work though it will make sense to grab a Zen

[Evildeffy]

I'm going to assume that CES in January may actually be the "paper launch" of ZEN, it gives them ca. a month to finalize specs and meet their deadline and allow them a few weeks to distribute to suppliers across the globe.

Considering the amount of "Engineering Samples" in the presentation we should pretty much assume that the CPU silicon itself is done and the boost clocks are finalized but not shown to not show too much of their hand to Intel before release (smart move).
This month is likely for motherboard partners to finalize and release their designs so they can be shown and demonstrated @ CES itself because whilst Intel/AMD does provide prototype boards the actual retail boards are "the last step" as you don't want to release a new CPU without the actual ability to use the thing.

As far as Vega goes though... that's a wildcard still and like the above-mentioned CPU "paper launch" I think Vega might be on the same track.
It would score not just points for being cheaper to do so but also for a double whammy, forcing the entire tech industry to scream the name AMD because of release X, Y and Z.

Remember that Polaris 10 was released in much the same way and that it was a bombshell like "Oh yeah btw.. this is Polaris 10, it's out now, stuff will flow into retail channels as of this week and also it's JUST 200 USD!"
You can see that the whole mindshare thing of nVidia (whilst still huge) is starting to actually lose ground because of the success AMD has booked JUST with the RX 460/470/480 cards (I know the RX 480 is a bit meh) and people are actually starting to wisen up as to the what/why/how of things.

So chances are that you might just get a double whammy in your face as I'm pretty sure AMD will be holding another sort of conference during CES to do so.
It's likely their way of "SUCK IT BITCHEZ! YOU'RE GOING TO NOTICE US BIGTIME, I HOPE YOU'RE ALL LUBED UP!" ... well ... revenge or something.

AMD is clearly on a warpath and wants to make an impression.

As far as why I think Vega might be "paper launched" as well is due to the fact that the MI25 has been announced using Vega technology.
Which means a product is ready, you don't fully develop Enterprise class cards first and then Consumer cards when Enterprise class cards generally hold a higher validation cycle than consumer class cards.

Meaning the only things to work out are firmware and drivers very likely, giving them up to a month to bring out release candidates for both.
And whatever time they allot to "they will be in the stores in a <fill in time frame here>" to finalize the first release drivers, which we all know generally sucks.

Do note that this is all speculation of course but it is one I feel would hammer down an impact across the industry hyping people up and building up marketing.
So naturally I could be wrong in all of this but it seems to me that this is the most sensible thing to do.

[Life-Binder]

MI25 has been announced using Vega technology.

but that just means all initial Vega chips will go into the MI25 first

and after thats satisfied/semi-satisfied - then the consumers/gamers get them


IMHO

[Evildeffy]

for gaming no Zen will beat your OCd 6700K until games start fully utilizing 12/16 threads which will take at least a few years

for multi-threaded work though it will make sense to grab a Zen

Whilst I wouldn't recommend upgrading from a 6700K to RYZEN for gaming purposes only stating that they cannot beat it is a misnomer.
With the info shown so far if they can clock the same then RYZEN will have a slight lead.

So stating that they cannot beat it is incorrect however at the same time stating that it WILL beat it is incorrect also.
We'll simply have to wait and see what RYZEN can offer in terms of clock speeds.

Seeing as how AMD stated it was a full public release, no special compilers with Blender it means that it has an IPC advantage over Broadwell-E between 5 and 10%.
This translates directly over into gaming as well as circumstances do not really change with this and seeing as how Broadwell/Broadwell-E's IPC is within 2% of Sky Lake you can easily derive that RYZEN has higher IPC to Sky Lake and also the upcoming Kaby Lake.

It's going to be a long ass month waiting for CES.

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but that just means all initial Vega chips will go into the MI25 first

and after thats satisfied/semi-satisfied - then the consumers/gamers get them

IMHO

Possibly but highly unlikely as if there's any crowd that would drop down cash first ask questions later it's the consumer crowd.
The Mi25 will have businesses first waiting to see before checking it out.

AMD is still a business which means they will go where they have some immediate cash available and work with that to improve the rest.
Almost all business practices do so, and it's a smart thing to do as well.

That said if AMD have scored some massive deal with a business partner that we are unaware of as yet it may change that but it had better be a huge deal as the potential income gain from consumers at launch is massive vs. businesses.