German police require racial profiling

[Machismo]

Stop twisting my posts please, it's pathetic.

This is the second time i am saying this now, i'm not arguing for preventing crime 100%, because that is virtually impossible without throwing every freedom a human have and tossing away the principles western society is built upon.

I am arguing against letting the rise in crime just happen, and the answer to doing so is racial profiling which is a minimal loss of freedom.
You rather just let the crime rise, and watch as more victims have their freedom and liberty taken away from them.




"Just let it happen" isn't a better way to prevent crime, are you being serious now?

You asked if I knew of a better way to prevent crime, well my way is certainly more effective.

You can prevent a rise in crime without restricting specific groups of people. otherwise, you are punishing innocent people for the actions of others.

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Then dont ever enter a football arena xD. You will feel offended.

If you mean soccer, believe me, I wouldn't. If you mean American football, I prefer to watch it on television. Of course, if I were to go to a stadium, that should be a mutual agreement between me and the owner of the stadium. No government involvement is required.

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A necessary one, as I said laws are there to maintain order, the more you neuter the law enforcement the more likely it becomes the law gets broken. On the other hand if you use to much force people might break the law out of spite.

"Necessary" is a subjective term. To others, imprisoning the entire human race seems necessary.

[Strangebrew]

You asked if I knew of a better way to prevent crime, well my way is certainly more effective.

You can prevent a rise in crime without restricting specific groups of people. otherwise, you are punishing innocent people for the actions of others.

You haven't said anything, you're just screaming "just let it happen" over and over.
Either give a proper answer for a better way to prevent crime, or shush.

You clearly know better than the law enforcement in Germany and in god know's how many other countries, now put your money where your mouth is and show us your grand plan on how to prevent crime.


I'll repeat, just letting the rise in crime happen does not stop the rise in crime, that's some serious contradiction.

[lonely zergling]

If you mean soccer, believe me, I wouldn't. If you mean American football, I prefer to watch it on television. Of course, if I were to go to a stadium, that should be a mutual agreement between me and the owner of the stadium. No government involvement is required.

Well in case of cologne the owner of place asked the police to do security. Its a mutual agreement if you show up and want to enter the place fine - you get screened for crackers and your id gets checked. You can turn around and go somewhere else if your rights as a free human of earth are violated .

[Combatbutler]

"Necessary" is a subjective term. To others, imprisoning the entire human race seems necessary.

We are talking about checking Id's not hauling people off to prison, torture chambers, work camps, house arrest etc., which is incredibly minor so again no problem here.

[Machismo]

You haven't said anything, you're just screaming "just let it happen" over and over.
Either give a proper answer for a better way to prevent crime, or shush.

You clearly know better than the law enforcement in Germany and in god know's how many other countries, now put your money where your mouth is and show us your grand plan on how to prevent crime.


I'll repeat, just letting the rise in crime doesn not stop the rise in crime, that's some serious contradiction.

No, I'm saying quite the opposite. You are the one saying, "Just let it happen" with the searches and detaining. I fully believe that we should punish any action which causes harm. I also believe that any restriction of a victimless action causes harm. Not once have I said I support people being assaulted or raped.

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We are talking about checking Id's not hauling people off to prison, which is incredibly minor so again no problem here.

Like I said, I have a much lower tolerance than most people in regards to the restriction of freedoms.

[Strangebrew]

No, I'm saying quite the opposite. You are the one saying, "Just let it happen" with the searches and detaining. I fully believe that we should punish any action which causes harm. I also believe that any restriction of a victimless action causes harm. Not once have I said I support people being assaulted or raped.

You can keep punishing any action that does harm, but that doesn't stop the rise in crime, or the rise in the victims who had their safety, freedom and liberty taken away from them.

I'll ask you one last time, what is your plan for preventing the crime?
Not your plan for what to do after the crime have happened.

You're confusing two very different things, there is a difference in how to prevent a crime from what happening and what to do with the criminal after said crime have happened, get it straight.

[lonely zergling]

Like I said, I have a much lower tolerance than most people in regards to the restriction of freedoms.

I hope you dont travel a lot by plane. Customs checks must be the horror for you. Evil government trying to look into your bags!

[Maybach]

Just for once I would like to see two things on one of these threads

1. Someone actually mention the rights of the majority of the population to go about their lives without becoming a victim of crime and how that might, just might be taken into consideration in one of these debates for a change

2. People to stop feeling like they need to be outraged on behalf of individuals or groups who they are not part of and do not know

However, the likelyhood of seeing either is about the same as me tripping over a pile of rocking horse poo

[Machismo]

Well in case of cologne the owner of place asked the police to do security. Its a mutual agreement if you show up and want to enter the place fine - you get screened for crackers and your id gets checked. You can turn around and go somewhere else if your rights as a free human of earth are violated .

Then the owners should have only had their own security, and there should have been no government involvement.

Of course this did not simply occur solely on private property, did it?

[TeleriaX]

No, I'm saying quite the opposite. You are the one saying, "Just let it happen" with the searches and detaining. I fully believe that we should punish any action which causes harm. I also believe that any restriction of a victimless action causes harm. Not once have I said I support people being assaulted or raped.

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Like I said, I have a much lower tolerance than most people in regards to the restriction of freedoms.

You are already contradicting yourself. You are not saying let it happen, but taking action to prevent something from happen causes harm and you dont like it?

If i run with a gun held into a school and i scream "i will kill everyone" - noone is a victim yet. So you say the police should wait till i shoot the first person to take action. THAT is what you are arguing about the whole time.

[Machismo]

I hope you dont travel a lot by plane. Customs checks must be the horror for you. Evil government trying to look into your bags!

I would much prefer the security checks be done by individual airlines. Once again, no government involvement is actually required. People could choose which airline they wanted to fly with, based on their desire for security checks, or not.

[lonely zergling]

I would much prefer the security checks be done by individual airlines. Once again, no government involvement is actually required. People could choose which airline they wanted to fly with, based on their desire for security checks, or not.

I was talking about customs checks. Thats where police looks for your illegal smuggle of cigaretts and other stuff. No airline is doing these. Its the governments buisness.

[Machismo]

You can keep punishing any action that does harm, but that doesn't stop the rise in crime, or the rise in the victims who had their safety, freedom and liberty taken away from them.

I'll ask you one last time, what is your plan for preventing the crime?
Not your plan for what to do after the crime have happened.

You're confusing two very different things, there is a difference in how to prevent a crime from what happening and what to do with the criminal after said crime have happened, get it straight.

I told you, imprisoning everyone is the most effective (other than killing all of humanity).

You could also just increase police presence, and watch specific groups of people (on public property).

[xero5141]

I think it's hilarious we're all supposed to sit around and pretend like profiling was just something made up for some angry old white men to be racist. Anyone know doesn't know that certain ethnic groups have a higher tendency to commit crime is in denial.

[Malacrass]

It wasn't racial profiling because there was a similar case one year ago (and the suspects were aggressive to boot).

There is no outrage - one Green Party member spoke out about it (which led to her being criticised even by her own party). Maybe a fabricated outrage by the media.

Yet, the fact that we talk about it is good, wether you consider it racial profiling or not. This is my Germany, where even the most minor missteps by officials (like giving a group of people the somewhat degrading name "Nafri") will be analysized through a magnifying glass. And that's a good thing, especially when it concerns high ranking politicians (Guttenberg, Schavan anyone?).

[Machismo]

I was talking about customs checks. Thats where police looks for your illegal smuggle of cigaretts and other stuff. No airline is doing these.

I find customs checks to be unnecessary, and somethign that does not require government involvement.

[Strangebrew]

I told you, imprisoning everyone is the most effective (other than killing all of humanity).

You could also just increase police presence, and watch specific groups of people (on public property).

This contradicts everything you have said up to now.
Whatever i'm done.

[Machismo]

You are already contradicting yourself. You are not saying let it happen, but taking action to prevent something from happen causes harm and you dont like it?

If i run with a gun held into a school and i scream "i will kill everyone" - noone is a victim yet. So you say the police should wait till i shoot the first person to take action. THAT is what you are arguing about the whole time.

I'm not saying let the rapes happen, you keep trying to put words into my mouth.

If you run into a school, threatening to shoot someone, then a teacher will shoot you. Problem solved, let a jury decide.

[NineSpine]

I'm not sure if you're going super deep or super superficial. I'll go with my first instinct and claim that this is nonsense. Freedoms are specifically granted to protect you against the Government. They're not meant to protect you against other people, ignoring Article 2 here slightly. I can absolutely restrict your freedom as much as the law permits me.

Since we're not talking citizen vs. citizen relationships here, though, this is an irrelevant sub-debate. We're talking specifically about state action by the police. They are restricting freedoms on behalf of the state. Freedoms' main purpose is to protect you against that scenario specifically. If you want maximum freedom, you'll remove any laws giving the police authority to do what they do.

This isn't rocket science, don't try to overcomplicate matters.

Then your points are of no value, and you are still wrong. Government also protects you against government. For example, the federal government protects you against state violations of your Constitutional rights. It does this by telling people what to do, therefore restricting them. You are just engaging in a big circle jerk where you redefine everything to meet your argument.

[Machismo]

This contradicts everything you have said up to now.
Whatever i'm done.

You are the one who wants to prevent crime, not me. It's not as if I actually support such a measure. I simply offered you an effective solution.