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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    If we keep this up, people might start believing us.
    Cool! Then i could tell them to go to discord and #readpins :3

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    I've seen some really cool things with WnW, like 2m+ DPS on Krosus just spamming Moonfire!
    Wasn't this "degenerative"(c) bluepost) gameplay fixed on the second day the of the patch? Stellar empowerment doesn't affect initial Moonfire damage anymore so I'm not sure how spamming Moonfire will be better than normal rotation.
    Last edited by vorchun; 2017-04-12 at 01:44 PM.

  3. #243
    isk is trolling slippy - don't worry about it

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by vorchun View Post
    Wasn't this "degenerative"(c) bluepost) gameplay fixed on the second day the of the patch? Stellar empowerment doesn't affect initial Moonfire damage anymore so I'm not sure how spamming Moonfire will be better than normal rotation.
    Im so sorry, we were just teasing ^^u

  5. #245
    nah, there's this nooby druid on dreamgrove called iskalla that believes all this silly stuff about w&w. also she doesn't know if a 915 solar stabbing relic is better than 925 empowerment >_> also rubs

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Kesek View Post
    nah, there's this nooby druid on dreamgrove called iskalla that believes all this silly stuff about w&w. also she doesn't know if a 915 solar stabbing relic is better than 925 empowerment >_> also rubs
    Yeah this Iskalla person just sounds like a troll tbh.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Yeah this Iskalla person just sounds like a troll tbh.
    Im not sure who this Iskalla is, but she seems a nice person to me, and its a bad thing to talk bad about ppl in here, guys D:

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Iskgoat View Post
    Im not sure who this Iskalla is, but she seems a nice person to me, and its a bad thing to talk bad about ppl in here, guys D:
    Don't worry, they're just some nerd from #balance.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  9. #249
    <Zerujin-Bleeding Hollow. I have a few questions, mostly in regards to A few of my legendaries (Cyndaria, fel, prydaz, sephuz) and a few of my pieces. Prydaz ranks lower than sephuz it looks like in most situations. I know most of these things are marginal, but I have the ring from guldan and its 920. I feel like my best combination is using prydaz and fel essence along with the ring from guldan. I guess I wouldn't mind being able to use sephuz, but I don't see how to fit it in. With the sephuz buff, it seems like I might want to use it.

    I see a lot of people shifting towards heavy mastery builds. In what spots would we want to drop our whispers900 and metronome895, for possibly Arcano860 - etheral urn875 - Arans or Bot trinket, also I'm a little unsure of what neck enchant to use, I see a lot of people using trained soldier now it seems like. Just seems like I see a lot of different balance druids do a lot of different things, I understand it varies from fight to fight though.

    If there are two different gearing options or sets I should have, what would those look like in a AOE vs ST scenario ?
    Last edited by Nijurez; 2017-04-13 at 02:24 PM.

  10. #250
    How are we with trusting simulation craft atm for stat weights?

  11. #251
    Update #1: T19 pieces swapped to Back/Shoulders to minimise ilvl hit.

    It's that time again team. I'll be looking at the 7.2.5 Legendary Comparisons and Ranking today, with relics to come in a subsequent post. Note that this analysis is quite long, to check for robustness in the results.

    So before we step into the legendary rankings, first we will do some groundwork. There has been quite a lot of discussion on whether using T20 4pc + T19 2pc is better than T20 4pc + ED, so I will start by comparing these two options.

    The following analysis assumes the following for gear: all Tomb gear is set to 935, all legendaries are 970, T19 set pieces are 910, and Whispers is 925.

    T20 tier = {Pants, Hat, Gloves, Chest}
    T19 tier = {Back, Shoulders}


    1. ED + T20 4pc vs. T20 4pc + T19 2pc

    This comparison will be dependent on how many SS crit relics you have. I have separated the comparison into two components: 0 SS crit relics, and 3 SS crit relics. ED/IFE is used in the first sim, whereas IFE/OI is used in the 4pc/2pc sim. The results are as follows:


    So it looks like taking ED over 4pc/2pc and OI is only a slight gain. In fact, even with 3 SS crit relics, it's not even 2% ST DPS. When you factor in movement, dropping stacks or otherwise misplay, the value of ED significantly declines. Therefore, it's looking like 4pc/2pc with IFE/OI will be the go-to ST build in Tomb.

    A further analysis of this result will follow in the legendary rankings section. For now, we will press on to the valuation of T20 2pc and 4pc.



    2. Valuation of T20 2pc and 4pc

    For this comparison, I will be using ED/IFE and just T20 2pc or 4pc, depending on what we're testing. The results for 2pc are:


    It looks like 2pc is worth about 4%, but has significant synergy with SS crit relics. Most players in Tomb will only have 1 SS crit relic, so this 4% DPS increase on ST is a faithful representation.

    Also note that the value of SS crit relics jump from about 1.6% to 2% when equipping T20 2pc. Quite a large jump.

    4pc results:


    Looking like 4pc is worth about 4% as well, but it notably scales with targets. About 3% on ST, 5% on 5-target cleave.



    3. Single-target Legendary Rankings

    To look at these legendaries properly, first we will begin with a single legendary analysis, and then a combination analysis with the best performing legendaries. The single legendary analysis is as follows:


    ED with 4pc is barely ahead of IFE and OI with 4pc/2pc builds. Elune is the next best legendary after that. Now let's take {ED, IFE, OI, Elune}, and look at the rankings with their combinations in mind.


    The most important result here is the bottom line: ED/OI vs. *IFE/OI* is only a 1.63% ST DPS increase. This means that all the trouble of maintaining ED on a stand-still fight is only giving you a 1.63% DPS increase. When you factor in movement, dropping the ED buff or otherwise misplays, the value of ED will significantly drop. Additionally, if your T19 tier is above 910, this gap will diminish further. Note that SS crit relics will still benefit ED builds more, though.

    Overall, the rankings for ST will need to be split into whether you're taking T19 2pc.

    Rankings with T19 2pc: OI > IFE > Elune > Prydaz

    Rankings without T19 2pc: ED > OI > IFE > Elune > Eko > Prydaz > LatC

    It is advisable to take the T19 2pc + T20 4pc build, as it significantly reduces the impact of mechanics on your DPS.



    4. Multi-target Legendary Rankings

    Here, we don't need to include T19 2pc because T19 2pc is much more ST-oriented. The multi-target analysis is just a 5-target cleave scenario with SL/SotF/ShS/SD. Results:


    Nothing surprising here: LatC is by far the best legendary, with OI/Eko/IFE all doing about the same.

    Multi-target Rankings: LatC >>> OI ~ IFE ~ Eko > Prydaz > ED > Elune


    I'll make a relic comparison post soon.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2017-06-01 at 02:09 AM.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  12. #252
    The ED gearset has 30+% haste? How long are the sim fights?

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Myztikrice View Post
    The ED gearset has 30+% haste? How long are the sim fights?
    5mins, and yes the haste bp is achieved.

    All the typical "IFE gets better with shorter fight lengths" and etc, etc, apply here. Can't include every tweak to the model, otherwise the post would be 100k words and impossible to draw any meaningful conclusion from.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  14. #254
    Slippy what 2 pc T19 / 4 pc T20 are you simming

    T19 - legs / shoulder
    T20 - head / glove / back / chest

    would be ideal based on stats yes?

  15. #255
    Think we'll want T19 shoulders + cloak ideally, you'll want chest/helm/pants T20 just for the big INT, and T19 gloves have terrible stats compared to T20 gloves. Obviously might change depending on the ilvl of the individual pieces, but assuming equal Ilvl that would be my guess.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowa View Post
    Slippy what 2 pc T19 / 4 pc T20 are you simming

    T19 - legs / shoulder
    T20 - head / glove / back / chest

    would be ideal based on stats yes?
    I put the tier pieces at the top of the post (edited in). Essentially I wanted to grab T20 pants definitely, T19 shoulders definitely, then the rest was about avoiding the crit/vers pieces and maximising mastery+haste where possible. Ended at T19 = {Hat, Shoulders} and T20 = {Pants, Cape, Chest, Gloves}.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  17. #257
    So
    2pc is worth 4%
    4pc is worth 4%

    in total with 1 relic you are looking at tier being a 8% increase?


    well there goes the theory that our Tier is going to fix our ST problems. At least we can put that excuse to bed.



    the only real good news i see in this is we can dump the Helm and do the same dps, even though it might not be competitive with other classes at least its competitive or better in most fights then the helm


    Ty for the time spent on this slippykins

  18. #258
    I suspected that Stellar Drift was nerfed in anticipation of the set bonus. Why bother with the set bonus at all comes out to be neutral effect? I'm not sure what kind of insane class fantasy involves having your character nerfed just so the future gear bonus feels "good". What other spec has this problem?

  19. #259
    Seems kind of strange that were are going to want older tier pieces to be optimal vs what will be dropping in tomb. Wonder if Blizzard will put the kibosh on this somehow.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by joltcola1234 View Post
    Seems kind of strange that were are going to want older tier pieces to be optimal vs what will be dropping in tomb. Wonder if Blizzard will put the kibosh on this somehow.
    I'm actually hoping they don't. Not having the our DPS balanced around the ridiculous turret dps of ED is actually quite nice.

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