Sooo .... T20 bonuses are kind of sick ...

[Tuskchi]

Do you think this will go live?

Brew-master finally receiving a way to half a bit more sustain heal which works perfect with existing mechanics ... Mist-weaver gets a way to cast faster his most important buff ... MW gets tons of crit, which is always good for DD...

[Sesshomaru]

This is but the first rendition of the set bonuses, it'll go through a plenorum of changes, nitpicking and feelings. Most likely the version we see now won't hold ground when it releases, as this is just plainly overpowered.

[Ryanite]

the most interesting part is that with 6 potential tier pieces we can mix and match 2 sets from t19 with 4 sets from t20 or even potentially vice versa with titanforge procs.

I'm super interested in the Brm set since not having a decent way to mitigate low damage erks me.

[Dakiri]

The BrM set seems a little redundant with Expel Harm to me, though. A non-spammable heal on the GCD that costs energy. It's a little annoying that it adds another button without adding anything too different to the spec. I personally would prefer the set interact with EH - for instance, 2 set gives you a chance on attack to spawn your own orbs (which would be nice for easy content that doesn't do enough damage to spawn orbs, and would let you pool orbs during taunt swaps), and then 4 set clears 10% stagger for every orb absorbed by EH (so if you have 120% stagger and do a 5 orb heal, you now have 70% stagger). Something like that. The EH/orb part of our kit doesn't really have much interaction with the rest of the kit, so it'd be nice to integrate it a bit.

[Saverem]

From what I'm seeing MW set bonus will be awesome for M+ but suck for raiding. BrM bonus is still a downgrade from T19 (unless it procs a lot) and WW I don't know or care about.

[Felixphaeton]

I'm hating how it looks so far. Brewmaster cooldowns play pretty badly as it is, I don't want another energy costing ability on the GCD in the rotation.

[coblade14]

WW 2pc is around 5% single target increase based on my napkin math. This alone is better than t19 2pc+4pc combined lol. 4pc should be another 4%-5% single target.

So overall, it is a boring bonus that boosts our single target quite substantially, but does nothing extra on multiple targets.

[Lellybaby]

I was a little sad that MW 2 set is a mana cost reduction while I believe all the other 2 piece healer set bonus are all throughput.

[Ryanite]

WW 2pc is around 5% single target increase based on my napkin math. This alone is better than t19 2pc+4pc combined lol. 4pc should be another 4%-5% single target.

So overall, it is a boring bonus that boosts our single target quite substantially, but does nothing extra on multiple targets.

woah wouldn't expect it to be such a high increase. a bonus to crit chance every 20 seconds seems a tad weak. would be nice if it was a bonus to the next 2-3 RSK's. Plus the t19 2 set with the t20 and bam now that's some nice damage boost. If the tier set gives a substantial boost to single target I wouldn't mind that it has zero interaction with aoe because while I don't believe it's great to make up for a classes lack via tier bonuses it's pretty much what happens every time to some degree. WW is lacking in single target and i'll take an OP tier bonus at this point plus our damage is already heavily based upon how high our aoe damage is. You can see in warcraft logs by checking overall damage for a fight vs boss damage and watch as WW drop to the bottom on boss damage.

As for Brm I'd have to agree with Dakiri that I'd much rather further interaction with expel harm and healing spheres at higher hp. The issue with effuse could be overcome by also making it free of energy cost though which isn't thematically as pleasing but an option.

As for MW it is far beyond a little help in a single department. Unlike WW where the lack is simply single target damage MW has a multitude of issues that come be overcame with a simple tier bonus. MW needs a base reform and then a tier bonus created around that new MW not one this tries to force people away from essence font and into life cycles while appearing to tackle the mana issue. A bit salty when everyone else gets a healing boost but MW gets a mana saver which would allow you to cast more but force you into a more specified 'rotation' to do so.

[Raiz]

I'm super interested in the Brm set since not having a decent way to mitigate low damage erks me.

I was always wondering about this part : why does BRW feels bad against low damage ? Are you talking about multiple low damage hitting us at the same time ? If so, doesn't it work the same as if you were getting a big hit -aka same stagger damage- ?
I've not really encountered such a situation as I played mainly mythics, not raid. So I'm not sure how low damage works on stagger. Mind to enlighten me ?

[Gorsameth]

I was always wondering about this part : why does BRW feels bad against low damage ? Are you talking about multiple low damage hitting us at the same time ? If so, doesn't it work the same as if you were getting a big hit -aka same stagger damage- ?
I've not really encountered such a situation as I played mainly mythics, not raid. So I'm not sure how low damage works on stagger. Mind to enlighten me ?

DH, DK, Paladin, Druid (I think) can just outheal low damage.
Warrior absorbs it
Monk takes it all and needs healing

[keqe]

I was always wondering about this part : why does BRW feels bad against low damage ? Are you talking about multiple low damage hitting us at the same time ? If so, doesn't it work the same as if you were getting a big hit -aka same stagger damage- ?
I've not really encountered such a situation as I played mainly mythics, not raid. So I'm not sure how low damage works on stagger. Mind to enlighten me ?

You can go to mythic0 as high geared paladin and never drop below 90% HP without healer. No matter your gear you won't see that as monk. You obviously won't die as OD will keep you alive but you will still bleed health. So it gives impression that there is barely any mitigation happening.

It is caused by % based mitigation and % based self healing. You need to take respectable damage to actually heal it. And purifying is % of %.

There really isn't any flat scaling on monk. GotO orbs scale from AP linearily but the actual healing gained doesn't because of the damage taken mechanic.

Compare Avenger Shield shielding/Ignore Pain/Soul Cleave heals.


I don't mind it because monk works where it matters.

[PinDrop]

At low damage, you keep yourself up through OD. Instead of topping yourself off like a paladin, you keep yourself above 35%. It may seem like that is a more dangerous level of health to be at, but due to stagger(and the low damage) it isn't. I've done Mythic0 with 4 dps as a monk many times. You drop pretty steadily down to 35%, then you are solid. Getting stunned/feared and such can be clench-worth moments, though.

[stross01]

You can run higher M+ with 4 dps as brewmaster with some Fighter Chow.

It's pretty inefficient, though, as you can't pull monster packs like you could with a healer.

[Raiz]

Then why are we talking about "low" damage ? It isn't worse than say ignore pain since past that you'll have no self heal except talented to victory rush (or whatever it is called, can't remember the name), and even then, there's a 30 sec CD (? again can't remember exactly, I don't play it enough to perfectly know all it abilities). Compare that to Obstinate determination which is limited by either movements or energy. You put yourself in a corner and you're basically unkillable til like 60% stagger.

I could understand if it lacks a self heal compared to say a Death Knight or Soul cleave (who play that abomination of a tank anyway ?) but I'd still play that monk instead of a warrior. Afaik, ignore pain doesn't scale great either the higher your ilvl gets.

I just wanted to know why everyone said monk sucks against low damage. I was under the consensus that it doesn't stagger that damage or something... I guess I've been thinking too much

Edit : Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying IP sucks. I'm just saying that, if for some reason my IP gets wrecked, there's absolutely no heal that will give my life back. Unless I get the killing blow or I have the talent. I feel like it's more dependant of a healer than a monk.

[stross01]

Then why are we talking about "low" damage ? It isn't worse than say ignore pain since past that you'll have no self heal except talented to victory rush (or whatever it is called, can't remember the name), and even then, there's a 30 sec CD (? again can't remember exactly, I don't play it enough to perfectly know all it abilities). Compare that to Obstinate determination which is limited by either movements or energy. You put yourself in a corner and you're basically unkillable til like 60% stagger.

I could understand if it lacks a self heal compared to say a Death Knight or Soul cleave (who play that abomination of a tank anyway ?) but I'd still play that monk instead of a warrior. Afaik, ignore pain doesn't scale great either the higher your ilvl gets.

I just wanted to know why everyone said monk sucks against low damage. I was under the consensus that it doesn't stagger that damage or something... I guess I've been thinking too much

Edit : Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying IP sucks. I'm just saying that, if for some reason my IP gets wrecked, there's absolutely no heal that will give my life back. Unless I get the killing blow or I have the talent. I feel like it's more dependant of a healer than a monk.

A warrior can do a dungeon without taking damage, though. No need to heal if you take no damage! Victory Rush also has no cooldown.

Brewmaster feels like crap against small hits because it is crap against small hits. We have no useful healing, we're almost totally dependent on a healer if the damage is higher than Healing Elixirs can provide, and we're not really mitigating any of the hits we don't dodge.

The new brewmaster set bonus seems extremely out of place, though. You generally want to purify before you take even half of the damage the set bonus would heal for. It also is strange as we don't have any open globals for this nonsense. Damage prevented will always outweigh damage healed, making brew generation superior.

[keqe]

Let's say tank takes 100k DTPS (so very low).

Warrior will Ignore Pain all of that. And victory rush/legendary bracers or anything will handle the mostly meaningless 10% IP doesn't absorb.

Paladin Avenger Shield/LotP handles it.

DH soul cleave handles it.

DK blood plague/worms/death strike and others.

Druid frenzied regeneration (minimum health part).

All of these would keep you at 100% HP through that 100k DTPS. But what about monk?. You lose that health until you hit 35%. You wouldn't even hit the first regular GotO orb before it.

The issue is mostly irrelevant. The point is that monk isn't a "god" in irrelevant content like other tanks are. Monk doesn't "overgear" things in traditional sense. For many it feels weird to go to random HC as high geared BrM/see one in there and see the health just drop slowly. While on other tanks they just stay full all the time.

But, it is irrelevant issue on irrelevant content pretty much.

If OD abuse didn't exist 900 ilvl monk would eventually bleed to death in mythic0 quite easily.

But I'd rather keep the other extreme of the spectrum. While warrior IP will lose value as the damage taken increases (rage from damage taken isn't enough to off set the damage taken), GotOs healing/damage taken ratio will actually increase. As it ignores stagger absorb/DoT you generate more "free" GotO the more you purify. And by taking a real bashing your self healing will actually be better and better. In similar situation Soul Cleave and IP just fall apart. Theoretically you could reach a point where you take so much damage you will heal more with GotO than you actually take damage. But EHP issues will prevent that before it ever happens obviously.

It's better to have the edge on the tougher end.

[Targom]

I tanked a cycle of M0 runs at 895ish ilvl with a healer that was fresh 110 and didn't really require any healing with Prydaz/healing elixirs. Our first few dungeons I was using a Vial of Nightmare Fog and I don't think I ever dropped below 70% before healing elixirs was off cd so I started using a stat stick to speed up runs.

I don't seem to have uploaded any logs from the M0s but I did upload an M2 log where I was at 77k DTPS. I guess it depends on the group comp because we had an ele shaman so that probably lowers my damage taken on trash. The 2 pugs we ended up picking up were fairly low dps and didn't have AE stuns so I think the damage taken could have been lower. I'm not really sure how DTPS compares between tanks, I've always heard BRM takes the most damage but I haven't had any problems though I only have defensive legendaries as BRM is concerned.

[kmart210]

From what I'm seeing MW set bonus will be awesome for M+ but suck for raiding. BrM bonus is still a downgrade from T19 (unless it procs a lot) and WW I don't know or care about.

I felt the same way about the set bonuses on MW. I guess they are just pushing us out of raid content and keeping us as the Wild Card Healer M+/PVP