What makes WF/TF a problem for people?

[Mlz]

except it hasn't? on day one it was mainstat mastery and offstat crit, since 7.1.5 it was buffed to have a large amount of haste crit and mastery? why would you not know that?


very funny indeed

Because as he himself said 'Most people on this forum don't know jack shit for what it's worth.' And since he seems to equate himself with most people regarding most topics he talks about then...

[Effenz]

except it hasn't? on day one it was mainstat mastery and offstat crit, since 7.1.5 it was buffed to have a large amount of haste crit and mastery? why would you not know that?

Right, I actually forgot that. mb. You win there :P

Doesn't change the fact that it's good now, the difference between legendaries is non existent.

- - - Updated - - -

Because as he himself said 'Most people on this forum don't know jack shit for what it's worth.' And since he seems to equate himself with most people regarding most topics he talks about then...

You still haven't disproven me since most of the difference between legendaries is literally non-existent and they are 100% in the minds of shitty kids.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Right, I actually forgot that. mb. You win there :P

Doesn't change the fact that it's good now, the difference between legendaries is non existent.

- - - Updated - - -



You still haven't disproven me since most of the difference between legendaries is literally non-existent and they are 100% in the minds of shitty kids.

I just simmed my mage with no legendaries, with the boots only, and with the bracers only, on a light movement fight
boots were a 1.4% dps increase on average (more than i gave them credit for, suprisingly)
bracers were a 12.5% dps increase on average

but sure, an 11.1% dps difference is literally non-existent - in before you personally can't perform at close to your sim dps (god knows how with how simplified legion classes are) therefore "sims don't matter because they don't match the REAL WORLD" argument repeated

[Mlz]

You still haven't disproven me since most of the difference between legendaries is literally non-existent and they are 100% in the minds of shitty kids.

They are non-existent for a world-quest farming trash-monkey like you, yes. So I guess in the end it IS dependent on your perspective, you're quite right about this. Any player worth their salt knows the difference exists and is the reason for disappointment upon not getting the bis legendary.

[Marrilaife]

It cheapens the experience of getting loot, because before you were "oh, my amazing trinket dropped" now you are "oh my trinket dropped... but it's only base version not titanforged..."

It's the same as they cheapened the experience of legendaries because having 10 per spec created crowd of them and there's nothing special, unique or legendary about them anymore.

It also creates tuning problem for raids (both titanforged and legendaries and imbalanced artifact progression curves). All those contribute to the fact it's extremely hard to hit a sweet spot between "too easy" and "too hard unless you grinded your ass off" raids. Many people mentioned TOV, as we all know TOV was Blizzard's knee-jerk response to "Emerald Nightmare was too easy".

And last, it creates a situation where extreme farmers have 900+ ilvl in group finder despite not having any special skill to back it up with, and start walling off the rest of the playerbase. The pug ilvl requirements are related to the obtainability of that ilvl, nothing else. If enough people can obtain 900+ with little skill just grinding that creates a situation where pugs ask for 900+ or some other stupid requirements for hc gul'dan or mythic+15 and still majority of people who fulfill those criteria plainly suck. Many people miss the times when "epics were epic" and top level gear was an accolade for your accomplishments as a player instead of being handed through a lottery system, may the luckiest win.

Oh, and one more thing - it pushes people to grind meaningless, old, dull content they're already bored of after clearing it 100s of times. There's nothing exciting about regrinding the same dungeon that drops your BIS trinket or relic tons of times every patch they up the ilvl cap. It's way more exciting when every patch your best trinkets are something else and introduce interesting, different gameplay.

[Treeskee]

I personally hate the system, but that's all on me. I got TF (895) bracers back in EN and now whenever I get bracers from my cache or as loot from NH I just sorta cry.

[Effenz]

I just simmed my mage with no legendaries, with the boots only, and with the bracers only, on a light movement fight
boots were a 1.4% dps increase on average (more than i gave them credit for, suprisingly)
bracers were a 12.5% dps increase on average

but sure, an 11.1% dps increase is literally non-existent - in before you personally can't perform at close to your sim dps (god knows how with how simplified legion classes are) therefore "sims don't matter because they don't match the REAL WORLD" argument

it's 10% on the sims printed.
you can have 10% rng variance between fights.

So that's why i said the difference is non existent. Procs/rng and movement all reduce your dps.
Let's look at krosus. You get the orb one fight, and you don't get the orb on a subsequent attempt. You do more damage in the attempt you didn't move, no?
Legendaries don't matter nearly as much as you think they do.

Do you make bright pink parses? Orange parses? link some parses so we can see you do 99% and prove how good you are and how not having bis is holding you back

[Heathy]

To each their own. I never said people weren't happy when they get TF gear they needed. I said it feels awful when you get a BIS piece that ISN'T TF, because you feel that to be your best, you really need it to TF.

I know the benefits of it, but fortunately, I'm also aware of the detriments of it.

perhaps i am bias a bit, my TF luck has been ok i'm only wearing 3 pieces of tf gear, i mean i do have an 890 amalgams which is pretty much BiS for holy priests, I could still get a higher one if i wanted to, or I could try for a higher one, but i don't NEED to farm for a higher one, i can just run the content, when the time comes and hope, in the back of my mind, that something drops that i need.

there are 2 tiers of content that haven't been released, every piece of gear ppl are using right now will be obsolete in 6 months and we'll be farming a whole new set of gear and farming 5 mans again because the minimum ilvl is going UP. so 5 man content will stay relevant and the items you think are good now will be shit in the future anyway.

there is no point going out of your way to farm titanforged when the only time during this expansion that the gear will stay relevant is at the end, when there are no more tiers to be added and no major patches left, at that point you can farm titan forged and any pieces you do get will stay BiS until the next expansion.

your essentially wasting your time trying to over farm titan forged rolls, once ToS releases there is going to be a whole new tier of titan forged possibilities.

and when 7.3 is released the same thing will happen again.

enjoy your titan forged pieces while they are still relevant. because they aren't going to stay that way until the end of the expansion. you will have the option to refarm any titan forges you have now again, when the dungeon base ilvl is raised, you can once again, farm dungeons, for an even higher tf roll. as far as the dungeons staying relevant goes, i think its great, there is nothing worst than the 5 mans becoming obsolete and only alts getting any real use out of them. i hope that trend continues in future expansions.

[Effenz]

They are non-existent for a world-quest farming trash-monkey like you, yes. So I guess in the end it IS dependent on your perspective, you're quite right about this. Any player worth their salt knows the difference exists and is the reason for disappointment upon not getting the bis legendary.

They are non-existent for viklund too, and he has world #2. I'd trust his opinion more than yours.

[Dizzeeyooo]

it's 10% on the sims printed.
you can have 10% rng variance between fights.

so why don't all mythic raiders use all utility legendaries all the time, if the dps gain from dps legendaries is irrelevant?
why are you the only person smart enough to have correctly worked out that dps legendaries are useless?

[Mlz]

They are non-existent for viklund too, and he has world #2. I'd trust his opinion more than yours.

Lol, as I said, one person out of how many used A while the vast majority did NOT use A. Did you fail your basic maths on top of being in a special ed class?

[Effenz]

so why doesn't everyone use utility legendaries all the time, if the dps gain from dps legendaries is irrelevant?
why are you the only person smart enough to have correctly worked out that dps legendaries are useless?

I said I used prydaz on my druid and I have 90% parses for my gear level.
Also I didn't say dps legendaries are useless, I said that the damage difference is irrelevant. As in, 90% of the time, proper execution/good rng will end up being a bigger difference than 1 item.

[Ealyssa]

You rather have a low% drop, you might see once in 50 boss kills? Over a BONUS stat?

Except it's not instead but on top of

An actual fact : My guild never saw the ursoc trinket droping, not, a, single, time. The low % is still a thing. And WF RNG comes after that.

[Effenz]

Lol, as I said, one person out of how many used A while the vast majority did NOT use A. Did you fail your basic maths on top of being in a special ed class?

You're irrelevant and retarded, lol. I said that the difference was ~10%, a 10% difference is irrelevant. A sim printout showed 10% differences between no leggies and bis.

But eh, I'm sure a lot more people use prydaz. People who do progression at high levels understand the value of utility more than plebs such as yourself obsessed with "bis"

How about you git gud instead of whining about your drops?

[Dizzeeyooo]

I said I used prydaz on my druid and I have 90% parses for my gear level.
Also I didn't say dps legendaries are useless, I said that the damage difference is irrelevant. As in, 90% of the time, proper execution/good rng will end up being a bigger difference than 1 item.

if the damage difference is irrelevant, then utility legendaries allow you to do the same dps as dps legendaries in a much safer way
if that was the case, there would be no reason ever to choose to equip dps legendaries over utility legendaries, since you do the same dps with both options but are much less likely to mess up/die with one option (or just git good instead lolol)
so why would any mythic raider choose to wear dps legendaries over utility legendaries? i'll repeat the question to see if you get better at answering it the second time around, instead of deflecting with useless anecdotes about your 90% lfr parsing druid

[Mlz]

You're irrelevant and retarded, lol. I said that the difference was ~10%, a 10% difference is irrelevant. A sim printout showed 10% differences between no leggies and bis.

But eh, I'm sure a lot more people use prydaz. People who do progression at high levels understand the value of utility more than plebs such as yourself obsessed with "bis"

How about you git gud instead of whining about your drops?

Another example that you have never seen a progress raid in your life. I'm just thankful that being retarded isn't contagious.

[Effenz]

if the damage difference is irrelevant, then utility legendaries allow you to do the same dps as dps legendaries in a much safer, more survivable way
if that was the case, there would be no reason ever to choose to equip dps legendaries over utility legendaries, since you do the same dps with both options but are less likely to mess up/die with one option
so why would any mythic raider choose to wear dps legendaries over utility legendaries? i'll repeat the question to see if you get better at answering it the second time around

More hyperbole? jesus christ. Do you never get tired of it?

[Dizzeeyooo]

More hyperbole? jesus christ. Do you never get tired of it?

yep more deflection, guess i'm not getting an answer after all, feelsbad

[Effenz]

Another example that you have never seen a progress raid in your life. I'm just thankful that being retarded isn't contagious.

Eh, I have enough cutting edge achievments to keep me warm at night.

- - - Updated - - -

yep more deflection, guess i'm not getting an answer after all, feelsbad

You're asking a stupid question and want a serious answer? You aren't entitled to anything, friendo

[Dizzeeyooo]

You're asking a stupid question and want a serious answer? You aren't entitled to anything, friendo

i'm asking a follow-on question from the point you originally made, if my question is stupid then your original point is equally stupid