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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Novakhoro View Post
    The reason that high end raiders dislike it is primarily two-fold (there are arguments for a third, but I will deal with two) in that: 1) they are strongly incentived to participate in it
    i agree on the first point, if you are clearing mythic on your main, or even normal mode, blizzard should not tempt players who don't want to LFR into doing so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novakhoro View Post
    and 2) it diminishes the sentimental value of getting the kill on whatever difficulty you aspire to complete when Johnny No-Hands and Kelly Keyboard-Turner's blind cats can kill it while maintaining around 8% of optimal DPS/HPS/tankingpersecond.
    but the second point, i will NEVER understand. do the content for your own enjoyment, not to show someone else that you accomplished something that, frankly, isn't all that worth bragging about. if it makes you angry that other people are having fun doing something you find boring then you need to rethink your reason for playing this game in the first place.

  2. #182
    Scarab Lord Peacekeeper Benhir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novakhoro View Post
    TL;DRHigher end raiders won't have to subject themselves to LFR for any kind of gain...
    ??? I've ignored LFR this whole xpac. Hasn't kept me from clearing H on three toons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Racthoh View Post
    i agree on the first point, if you are clearing mythic on your main, or even normal mode, blizzard should not tempt players who don't want to LFR into doing so.
    Tempting experienced raiders into doing LFR is how Blizz makes LFR easy for players who can't figure out how to get into N raiding.

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  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    If something is constantly shit, why shouldn´t people constatnly complain? Just because you get stabbed in the lag every week you don´t stop caring after 7 years.
    If it's so shit then don't play WoW. Go and find a game that is l337 enough for your epeen.
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  4. #184
    Scarab Lord Peacekeeper Benhir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    If something is constantly shit, why shouldn´t people constatnly complain? Just because you get stabbed in the lag every week you don´t stop caring after 7 years.
    If you've been doing something you consider shit for 7 years, you don't need a better WoW. You need a life coach. Jus' sayin'

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  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacekeeper Benhir View Post
    Tempting experienced geared raiders into doing LFR is how Blizz makes LFR easy for players who can't figure out how to get into N raiding.
    that's exactly why they do it and i don't understand why either, when they can just tune the bosses to deal less damage and have even less hp.

  6. #186
    Scarab Lord Peacekeeper Benhir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racthoh View Post
    that's exactly why they do it and i don't understand why either, when they can just tune the bosses to deal less damage and have even less hp.
    It might be fun to sit in on developer discussions at Blizz, behind closed doors where they don't have to worry about offending customers. What do they say to each other about the design decisions they make?

    Peacekeeper Benhir .~.~.~. Felfaadaern Darkterror
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  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Novakhoro View Post
    The reason that high end raiders dislike it is primarily two-fold
    BULLSHIT. High End mythic raiders dont give a fuck about lfr at all.
    up vdj qfi uh oj lbu ut vkgpe bfut ojhj tznh ojm mjls pgtu ovdp nnvpzl dvg!

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    BULLSHIT. High End mythic raiders dont give a fuck about lfr at all.
    except for the first few weeks/month of an expansion where plenty of average mythic players or better have LFR on their grind list.

  9. #189
    The way it is, it's fine.

    IF you don't want to do LFR, you don't do it, that easy. I have not done one boss of LFR since Legion started and I never will because I think it's stupid and it's not worth my time. It's true, I can just go watch a movie and press random keys and probably do more dps than the average joe but that's the point. But I know I'm a good player and having played since tbc, I know I can jump from heroic dungeons to Normal difficulty without getting a handout from blizzard .

    All in All, from my point of view LFR should be cut off entirely, make normal a little bit easier(by having a weekly wing getting reduced abilities by 10% or ICC mode with choosing with or without the reduction.) and let's make it fun again, by having that OMG WE KILLED IT, finally, kind of feeling that you have after wiping so much on that boss.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novakhoro View Post
    I'll start this by saying that I can't stand the idea of LFR. I don't believe that it is interesting in any way shape or form. I believe that it is neither engaging, nor conducive to any kind of personal enjoyment, for me. I do acknowledge that it is here to say and how a vast majority of the playerbase experiences the content

    The reason that high end raiders dislike it is primarily two-fold (there are arguments for a third, but I will deal with two) in that: 1) they are strongly incentived to participate in it and 2) it diminishes the sentimental value of getting the kill on whatever difficulty you aspire to complete when Johnny No-Hands and Kelly Keyboard-Turner's blind cats can kill it while maintaining around 8% of optimal DPS/HPS/tankingpersecond.

    The second has been addressed by Blizzard and is why we have wings released on a delayed schedule for LFR. Sounds good. The third argument that I mentioned is that new players will see the herp-derp mode, feel like they've completed the game, and decide they're done until the new stuff.

    The former point, I believe, can be remedied by having a loot lockout that is solely for LFR. If you complete a boss on LFR then you cannot receive anything from that boss in any other difficulty throughout the reset. The same goes vice versa for the other difficulties meaning that if a boss is killed on Heroic difficulty there is nothing to be gained from killing it on LFR difficulty.

    There would then be no reason for anyone who does not wish to run LFR to feel like they have to, and LFR people would finally be free of all the elitist-scum who come into their LFR. They'd be left to their own devices to progress through the raid at whatever speed that randomly assigned group can muster.

    TL;DR - Give LFR its own loot lockout. You can either get loot from LFR or the other three difficulties. Higher end raiders won't have to subject themselves to LFR for any kind of gain, and LFR raiders wont have to get bitched at for trying to experience the game in a way that suits them

    Flame on if you disagree. I might have a terrible idea and that's fine, but I feel that this would satisfy both the LFR crowd and the anti-LFR crowd. Thoughts?
    This is by far one of the worst ideas I've seen on here recentltly. I'm in amazement that you could somehow get to that conclusion
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  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingheadache View Post
    If it's so shit then don't play WoW. Go and find a game that is l337 enough for your epeen.
    thankfully, lfr is not mandatory. I do avoid it whenever I can. I still do have an opinion on it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacekeeper Benhir View Post
    If you've been doing something you consider shit for 7 years, you don't need a better WoW. You need a life coach. Jus' sayin'
    I did not claim, that I am doing it. I just think it is not healthy for the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I've done nothing wrong. I'm not the one with the problem its everyone else that has a problem with me.
    Quote Originally Posted by MilesMcStyles View Post
    I don't care that other people don't play the content that I enjoy.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Novakhoro View Post
    I'll start this by saying that I can't stand the idea of LFR. I don't believe that it is interesting in any way shape or form. I believe that it is neither engaging, nor conducive to any kind of personal enjoyment, for me. I do acknowledge that it is here to say and how a vast majority of the playerbase experiences the content

    The reason that high end raiders dislike it is primarily two-fold (there are arguments for a third, but I will deal with two) in that: 1) they are strongly incentived to participate in it and 2) it diminishes the sentimental value of getting the kill on whatever difficulty you aspire to complete when Johnny No-Hands and Kelly Keyboard-Turner's blind cats can kill it while maintaining around 8% of optimal DPS/HPS/tankingpersecond.

    The second has been addressed by Blizzard and is why we have wings released on a delayed schedule for LFR. Sounds good. The third argument that I mentioned is that new players will see the herp-derp mode, feel like they've completed the game, and decide they're done until the new stuff.

    The former point, I believe, can be remedied by having a loot lockout that is solely for LFR. If you complete a boss on LFR then you cannot receive anything from that boss in any other difficulty throughout the reset. The same goes vice versa for the other difficulties meaning that if a boss is killed on Heroic difficulty there is nothing to be gained from killing it on LFR difficulty.

    There would then be no reason for anyone who does not wish to run LFR to feel like they have to, and LFR people would finally be free of all the elitist-scum who come into their LFR. They'd be left to their own devices to progress through the raid at whatever speed that randomly assigned group can muster.

    TL;DR - Give LFR its own loot lockout. You can either get loot from LFR or the other three difficulties. Higher end raiders won't have to subject themselves to LFR for any kind of gain, and LFR raiders wont have to get bitched at for trying to experience the game in a way that suits them

    Flame on if you disagree. I might have a terrible idea and that's fine, but I feel that this would satisfy both the LFR crowd and the anti-LFR crowd. Thoughts?
    LFR does have it own loot lockout. It's independant of the lockout of higher difficulties. If you want people to only either do LFR or the other 3 difficulties, that's a whole different thing and a very terrible idea.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by laplacedemon View Post
    Is that something you do on a raid day or on an off-day? We're also 9/10 and I wouldn't make it obligatory, hell even our hc clears are done on an off-day...
    We are a 2 day (tues/thurs) 8-11 CST (so 6 hours total) a week guild. That is done on the optional Sunday night raid.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Racthoh View Post
    that's exactly why they do it and i don't understand why either
    You guys are all overestimating the actual performance of both the high-end raiders and the encounters in LFR. These days they're ONLY ever a problem the first week. Determination gets a kill eventually in any case or the group dissolves, regardless of how many "elite" players are in there. It's about queues, having big epic-feeling groups that are full. It's funny that these guys think they're carrying these groups when they're literally the filler. The exception would somewhat be tanks and healers.

    I retired from raiding and I only do LFR. I'm pretty much always in the top five DPS if not higher. So technically I qualify to be in the population that gets butthurt about underperformers. I run the most recent LFR every week, takes me maybe an hour to an hour and a half. Problematic runs happen maybe once every two weeks. So if there's five wings (might be remembering it wrong, but I think there's at least that much - besides the fact that many weeks I'll run older stuff too) that means one out of ten groups has any problem at all.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash25 View Post
    The way it is, it's fine.

    IF you don't want to do LFR, you don't do it, that easy. I have not done one boss of LFR since Legion started and I never will because I think it's stupid and it's not worth my time. It's true, I can just go watch a movie and press random keys and probably do more dps than the average joe but that's the point. But I know I'm a good player and having played since tbc, I know I can jump from heroic dungeons to Normal difficulty without getting a handout from blizzard .

    All in All, from my point of view LFR should be cut off entirely, make normal a little bit easier(by having a weekly wing getting reduced abilities by 10% or ICC mode with choosing with or without the reduction.) and let's make it fun again, by having that OMG WE KILLED IT, finally, kind of feeling that you have after wiping so much on that boss.
    The problem with making Normal mode only is this now limits what players can see and experience the content. You run into the same issue you have now where unless your armory shows you've killed the boss or your ilevel meets some inflated standard you don't get invited. Or you're kicked from the groups unless your DPS is phenomenal. Not to mention not everyone can be online during prime time to run a raid. Raids doesn't suddenly happen at 3am or 7am for those with different time schedules.

    I don't fall into either of these situations but I have friends or former guildmates that did.

    So you run into the problem where Blizzard designs content that only 5% of the players will see and has to re-evaluate why they make the content in the first place. LFR exists to allow players to see content they couldn't otherwise experience by queuing for it.
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  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by infinit View Post
    No loot should WF/TF at all... its a stupid system.
    have to agree. I am wearing a titanforged tier LFR helmet to complete my four set. hence the reason some may feel compelled to peform trash "content" with garbage "players".
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Taus View Post
    You guys are all overestimating the actual performance of both the high-end raiders and the encounters in LFR. These days they're ONLY ever a problem the first week. Determination gets a kill eventually in any case or the group dissolves, regardless of how many "elite" players are in there. It's about queues, having big epic-feeling groups that are full. It's funny that these guys think they're carrying these groups when they're literally the filler. The exception would somewhat be tanks and healers.

    I retired from raiding and I only do LFR. I'm pretty much always in the top five DPS if not higher. So technically I qualify to be in the population that gets butthurt about underperformers. I run the most recent LFR every week, takes me maybe an hour to an hour and a half. Problematic runs happen maybe once every two weeks. So if there's five wings (might be remembering it wrong, but I think there's at least that much - besides the fact that many weeks I'll run older stuff too) that means one out of ten groups has any problem at all.
    This is exactly my experience as well, except that I almost never have a group that has a problem. There was a wipe on Gul'dan today because a tank bailed midfight and the other tank didn't know the mechanics but we took him down the very next pull. And that's the only wipe I've experienced in about 2 months.

    And, just like you, I'm always in the top 5 of dps or top 2 of heals and I never do anything beyond LFR and world content. I don't even do Mythic dungeons let alone Mythic+. This myth that "high-end" raiders are carrying LFR is just that, a myth.

    LFR is fine and fun for the people that it's intended for. There is no reason or need for anyone who doesn't want to be there to be there and if you think you are required to be then that's your or your guild's problem.
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  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Your points are correct in regards to past expansion, this expansion is far worse. When LFR heroes can get 925 titanforged gear, and I see it more often than I should, there's no incentive to players who spend hours and hours of progression to get a boss kill because 1 little kid can afk on a boss in LFR and get a better reward.
    I assume the next logical step is for that lucky little kid to take your place in your mythic raid guild because he got one lucky 925 drop, right?

    Of course not, that's stupid. And so is being upset that a very small percentage of people get lucky with a drop while you and your mythic brethren outgear/outskill them by 99.999%. They have absolutely zero bearing on you, except for the time you spend raging on forums about how unfair it is.
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  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimson View Post
    I assume the next logical step is for that lucky little kid to take your place in your mythic raid guild because he got one lucky 925 drop, right?

    Of course not, that's stupid. And so is being upset that a very small percentage of people get lucky with a drop while you and your mythic brethren outgear/outskill them by 99.999%. They have absolutely zero bearing on you, except for the time you spend raging on forums about how unfair it is.
    Really? Because Mythic raiding population is dropping rapidly and do you know the reason that most people are giving? That Mythic is unrewarding, why waste hours every week when some scrub can get better gear without any of the work. This applies to Normal and Heroic too, this isn't just an LFR problem.

  20. #200
    Bloodsail Admiral Jimson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Really? Because Mythic raiding population is dropping rapidly and do you know the reason that most people are giving? That Mythic is unrewarding, why waste hours every week when some scrub can get better gear without any of the work. This applies to Normal and Heroic too, this isn't just an LFR problem.
    If that's a reason people are giving. they're stupid. I'm sorry, they just are. I've never had anything proc above 915, and that was only once (all others are <900), but because I was able to get a 915 piece someone else feels their time in N/H/M raids is wasted? Never mind the other 13 slots that are miles better, or the mounts, or the fun, or whatever. The knowledge that some LFR scrublord might have a piece that outshines theirs is just too much to bear. (I actually had mine drop in a mythic dungeon, but that's besides the point).
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