Why is the Havoc T20 bonus so limited?

[Nyel]

Can somebody tell me? I mean what's even the point of the bonus if you're not playing the Blade Dance build? Am I supposed to use Blade Dance with the 2p (4p) even when I don't use a build focusing on Blade Dance?

[Kash6]

Thats why the design is so bad, it not only forces us to run that build, but its pretty lackluster as a bonus too, like the t19 bonuses actually win if the gear has the same ilvl

[zookie]

There is no rhyme or reason. It is a terrible design that forces you into playing the only viable build. The devs probably thought the new ring would open up some different build routes but they were wrong. Especially because they nerfed the bracers into obscurity.

[BiggestNoob]

It'd be better if they made BD/DS do chaos damage. It's amazing they still haven't done this.

[VooDsXo]

Can somebody tell me? I mean what's even the point of the bonus if you're not playing the Blade Dance build? Am I supposed to use Blade Dance with the 2p (4p) even when I don't use a build focusing on Blade Dance?

I mean can you believe next tier they are forcing us into EYE BEAM????? Also can you literally believe last tier forced us into Chaos Cleave...dear god people stfu they have to design the tier set bonuses around something, no it isn't and no it hasn't been the most optimal for every talent choice ever so please just chew on your thoughts and keep em.

[Nyel]

I mean can you believe next tier they are forcing us into EYE BEAM????? Also can you literally believe last tier forced us into Chaos Cleave...dear god people stfu they have to design the tier set bonuses around something, no it isn't and no it hasn't been the most optimal for every talent choice ever so please just chew on your thoughts and keep em.

Well, we have several abilities that all builds use. Why limit the bonus to abilities that are exclusive to some builds? Doesn't make any sense. Yes, Blizzard needs to design some set bonus and other classes have pretty bad ones as well but with my 9 110s I never found a bonus so bland and useless like this. I complain because it's just lazy and bad game design.

[Skyepic]

I mean can you believe next tier they are forcing us into EYE BEAM????? Also can you literally believe last tier forced us into Chaos Cleave...dear god people stfu they have to design the tier set bonuses around something, no it isn't and no it hasn't been the most optimal for every talent choice ever so please just chew on your thoughts and keep em.

You're missing the point. Set Bonuses should be built around a CORE ability of a class not an OPTIONAL ability. it's like if Blizzard created a set bonuses that buffed the damage of Stellar Flare. Moonkins would then be forced to take the Stellar Flare talent and unable to choose Incarnation or Soul of the Forest which are both viable talents right now depending on the mechanics of a fight.

Chaos Cleave was strong when playing demonic and bloodlet was strong with the bracers + momentum for heavy cleave fights. Both of these builds did not utilize/favor blade dance. By making a set bonus built around an ability that is not always part of the rotation restricts players into a "cookie cutter" talent build, which is the exact opposite of what blizzard was trying to accomplish with the talent tree.

If that's too hard to understand *shrug*

[Shirofune]

I mean can you believe next tier they are forcing us into EYE BEAM????? Also can you literally believe last tier forced us into Chaos Cleave...dear god people stfu they have to design the tier set bonuses around something, no it isn't and no it hasn't been the most optimal for every talent choice ever so please just chew on your thoughts and keep em.

The last tier didn't force us onto anything. In fact, people started playing with First Blood, moved into Chaos Cleave because we were stacking mastery and Chaos Cleave got better than First Blood at high mastery levels.

In fact, people played Bloodlet + Bracers in half the bosses.

T19 was way better than T20, and by the looks of T21, it's going to be even worse.

[Mamut]

I mean can you believe next tier they are forcing us into EYE BEAM????? Also can you literally believe last tier forced us into Chaos Cleave...dear god people stfu they have to design the tier set bonuses around something, no it isn't and no it hasn't been the most optimal for every talent choice ever so please just chew on your thoughts and keep em.

Oh cmon, its not fuking diablo. In Diablo sets like this work because you have multiple sets for every build so you are not forced into anything. In WoW sets never should force you into a build if theres no other alternative. Is this really so hard to understand? And no, last tier did not force us into chaos cleave.

[Typhoria]

I mean can you believe next tier they are forcing us into EYE BEAM????? Also can you literally believe last tier forced us into Chaos Cleave...dear god people stfu they have to design the tier set bonuses around something, no it isn't and no it hasn't been the most optimal for every talent choice ever so please just chew on your thoughts and keep em.

Chaos cleave was never viable except in PTR before it was gutted. It was Bloodlet until it was nerfed and First Blood was buffed.

[Orissan]

Chaos cleave was never viable except in PTR before it was gutted. It was Bloodlet until it was nerfed and First Blood was buffed.

If you had high mastery / Crit and a few CS relics it would win over FB. In fact it did for me up until I started getting M Tomb gear and had to break up my set / My stats started shuffling.

As for tier sets, I really wish they would just use a ability that all specs didn't use rotationally. Like say every x seconds your Consume Magic will give you Y fury over the next 10 seconds. Or after using Chaos Nova gain 10k Agility for Y seconds... and now I see why they have issues, those are the only two abilities I can think of that isn't a main one or would force a spec in. I guess they could throw modifiers on Demon's Blade / Bite (make the next CS free?) or do something weird like Glide increasing damage.

I guess toward the end of Tomb I will have to practice Demonic.

[Tinary]

I think blizzard developers answered to a similar question. Yes set bonuses are designed sometimes to make you want to use a talent and thats fine since it will only last for a tier. Atleast Havoc 4 set doesnt require you to put a skill back to the damn action bar.

[VooDsXo]

You're missing the point. Set Bonuses should be built around a CORE ability of a class not an OPTIONAL ability. it's like if Blizzard created a set bonuses that buffed the damage of Stellar Flare. Moonkins would then be forced to take the Stellar Flare talent and unable to choose Incarnation or Soul of the Forest which are both viable talents right now depending on the mechanics of a fight.

Chaos Cleave was strong when playing demonic and bloodlet was strong with the bracers + momentum for heavy cleave fights. Both of these builds did not utilize/favor blade dance. By making a set bonus built around an ability that is not always part of the rotation restricts players into a "cookie cutter" talent build, which is the exact opposite of what blizzard was trying to accomplish with the talent tree.

If that's too hard to understand *shrug*

It is kind of hard to understand how you believe a baseline ability is NOT considered a core ability because you can opt out w/ a talent. I mean pay attention Blade Dance is in our core set of abilities. The talent choice just makes it stronger, as did 10% crit on chaos strike making chaos cleave more optimal, again pay attention and stop whining because you're literally contradicting yourself.

[Zyrosis]

It is kind of hard to understand how you believe a baseline ability is NOT considered a core ability because you can opt out w/ a talent. I mean pay attention Blade Dance is in our core set of abilities. The talent choice just makes it stronger, as did 10% crit on chaos strike making chaos cleave more optimal, again pay attention and stop whining because you're literally contradicting yourself.

Difference is, without the Tier 20 set and First Blood, blade dance's damage is so low and cost so high that it's almost never worth using, whereas there wasn't ever a time you wouldn't use Chaos Strike, with or without Chaos Cleave or the T19 set. I myself personally really enjoy Blade Dance, but forcing a talent choice on you based on your Tier set isn't fun.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

You could always go Vengeance and have a 4pc to ignore.

[Nyel]

Difference is, without the Tier 20 set and First Blood, blade dance's damage is so low and cost so high that it's almost never worth using, whereas there wasn't ever a time you wouldn't use Chaos Strike, with or without Chaos Cleave or the T19 set. I myself personally really enjoy Blade Dance, but forcing a talent choice on you based on your Tier set isn't fun.

This. /10chars

[Backstabak]

The problem is, that we simply don't have enough core abilities we always use to build set around them. That's why things like BD are now a set bonus, even though without FB it's almost useless to have it on your bars. It's also a reason why eye beam is next, I mean what should they build around ? Talented chaos blades or talented felblade ? Thank god they didn't put fel rush into the set bonus.

[Deleted]

I mean can you believe next tier they are forcing us into EYE BEAM????? Also can you literally believe last tier forced us into Chaos Cleave...dear god people stfu they have to design the tier set bonuses around something, no it isn't and no it hasn't been the most optimal for every talent choice ever so please just chew on your thoughts and keep em.

Why bother having multichoice talents, if you`re left with no choice.....?

Your ignorance is staggering

[Lens Hunter]

My issue with the set being based around Eye Beam is that its on such a long cooldown. Although 15% haste is nothing to shake a stick at.

[Nyel]

The problem is, that we simply don't have enough core abilities we always use to build set around them. That's why things like BD are now a set bonus, even though without FB it's almost useless to have it on your bars. It's also a reason why eye beam is next, I mean what should they build around ? Talented chaos blades or talented felblade ? Thank god they didn't put fel rush into the set bonus.

They could easily build around Demon's Bite / Throw Glaive (depending on how the bonus would be this could enforce a Bloodlet playstyle which would be the same problem we have now with Blade Dance) / Chaos Strike or even Fury of the Illidari. I just got the legendary bracers and I don't see myself ever using First Blood now so Blade Dance for me as a no go ability although I have the set bonus.