Wreck's Eureka Concept

[Wrecktangle]

Alright so I finally caught up on some work and have a few hours to bs around.

Here are my thoughts:

Eureka
The overall concept would be a procedurally generated open world duty area similar in size to say Azys La. It would use tilesets from all available dungeons/zones to attempt to create a unique experience every time. You would start at a random spot ANYWHERE on the map. Flying is disabled at first, but can be activated for a brief time under certain conditions.

The zone would be filled with enemies ranging from solo to groups of say 10 minor enemies. Killing enemies and exploring sections of map fills up a bar that spawns a boss somewhere on the map as well as granting Weapon Experience. Maybe the aetheric compass could help pinpoint boss spawn by telling you how far away.

Party Size:
The duty would be designed for 8 players. 2 Tanks, 2 Healers, and 4 DPS. The party is encouraged to split up or stick together whichever works best for them. (You'd be sacrificing trash safety and speed to explore more, and kill more camps, albeit more slowly). Your strategy could likely dictate how close you are to spawning a boss, and how much time you left (dynamic gameplay > static).

Rewards:
The primary goal would be to provide "Weapon Experience" to level up your Relic Weapon.

Additionally, bosses found in Eureka will randomly drop personal loot that you can opt to take, pass to the group (to roll on normally), or you can convert it to Weapon Experience. Upon the duty ending, it will tally up your experience and add it to your weapon based on enemies/bosses killed and % of map explored. If you explore the entire map you get bonus "Weapon Experience", as well as instantly filling the boss gauge!

Certain enemies can even drop Treasure Maps for the zone! It'll be extra challenging to try and find the map location within the time constraints when taking into account enemy positioning too! They reward Materia, Gil, Travel Feathers (key item that allows flying in Eureka for 5 minutes for the whole party, disappears when duty ends), various pieces of relevant loot/gear, etc.. Finding a Treasure also instantly fills the boss gauge!

Cost to Enter:
Eureka costs 800 Creation tomes to enter (in 4.2, when this content would drop, Creation becomes Verity, keep that in mind, better said - current uncapped tomestone). In DF it charges 200 per player upon zoning in. In PF any # of players can contribute any amount of tomes to reach the total 800. The idea behind this is to gate the amount of times you can do it in a row, but also allow people who play more to help those who play less. There are also other items you can supply to change how Eureka rules works and you only have 3 enhancement slots. More on that below.

Difficulty:
Eureka would scale based on a star system ranking 1 through 5. 1 being the least dangerous, with 5 being the most. The DF would limit the difficulty to 1 star. You can boost the star (difficulty) rating in PF by supplying key items achieved from other forms of content. There are key items from Normal raids/dungeons that can be acquired to boost the difficulty to 2 stars. EX Trials can offer items that boost the difficulty up to 3 stars. Savage raids can boost the stars up to 4 stars, and lastly clearing the final turn offers a guaranteed item to boost to 5 stars. The key items needed to boost the star rating aren't super rare, but they aren't common either.

Each star increases both the HP%/DMG% of the enemies/bosses as well as granting them both additional and more threatening features. It also considerably increases the rewards.

Time Limit:
The content is timed like all duties. You're in a rush to explore as safely as possible while navigating the challenges randomly presented to you. The default time limit is 30 minutes. You can extend this in PF groups only by supplying a key item "Hourglass of Time". This item can be obtained via crafters. Each one increases the duration by 10 minutes.

Enemies:
Trash packs can range from a singular solo enemy (of varying strength) to as large a group as 10. Each trash pack has traits assigned to it at creation of the instance. Think similar to Diablo 2 rare trash packs. They will be listed when you target them (in 1 and 2 star difficulties) so you know ahead of time to skip if you don't like the combination. They will have a certain # of traits based on the instance star difficulty rating. From 3 stars onward, you can no longer see ahead of time what traits enemies have.

• 1 Star: 1-2 traits
• 2 Star: 2-3 traits
• 3 Star: 3-4 traits
• 4 Star: 4-5 traits
• 5 Star: 5+ traits

Here are some example traits you may see on enemies(not a complete list): (don't hate the blatant M+ affixes )

Fleeing - When enemies fall below 40% HP, they flee to the nearest trash pack, not in combat.
Raging - When brought below 20% HP, they deal 100% increased damage and attack/cast 100% faster.
Stalwart - Unable to be CC'd.
Volatile - Slain enemies burst, dealing 25% of your max health (this % increases up to 75% on 5 stars)
Fearless - Threat resets on random intervals.
Poisonous - Enemies place a heavy DoT that is only removed when you're healed above 80% HP.
Wounding - Enemies place a stacking debuff that reduces incoming healing.
Commanding - A specific enemy will have an aura that significantly boosts the damage and defense of nearby enemies.
Camaraderie - Enemies slain within 20 yds release an aura that grant enemies 10% additional damage and increases their HP by 10%.

Bosses:
Bosses would spawn as soon as the gauge filled up randomly somewhere in the map. Bosses can be generally any Mob (enlarged and maybe slightly modified model, or existing boss mob). The bosses are assigned a random # of boss mechanics from a pool based on the star difficulty rating.

• 1 Star: 4-5 mechanics
• 2 Star: 5-6 mechanics
• 3 Star: 7-9 mechanics
• 4 Star: 10-13 mechanics
• 5 Star: 15+ mechanics

An example boss might be like a Rafflesia model from T6. On 1 star difficulty it might have:

• Shared Cleave - Tanks should stack on each other to share cleave.
• Add Spawn - Boss spawns an add by x interval. Not killing the add in time grants damage up stack.
• Tether - Boss places a marker on a character tethering them to it. Boss hits the player for catastrophic damage based on distance. Use Sprint.
• Void Zone - Boss places random void zones on the ground that deal damage and slow. Boss gains vuln down if it is standing on void zone.

This is a fairly simple boss with fairly simple checks. Pretty much on par with your normal dungeon/raid boss (just with more threatening damage output) and you want to kill it ASAP so you can keep exploring and spawn more bosses! The fun bit is not knowing exactly what the boss can do before fighting it. The scary part is when you get to the higher star ratings and bosses have a ton of mechanics, that could be REALLY scary. Like Imagine a boss with a shared cleave, HP down on cleave, and vuln stack on cleave. You'd have a tricky time figuring out just how to survive that. I want to replicate that feeling I got from original M+ where we had to come up with crazy strategies and see bosses do things we've never seen before, even if it felt ridiculous or unfair.

In Summary:
The idea here is to create content that scales is repeatable and unique. Offers difficulty that you want, and meaningful rewards.

What are you thoughts? Does this sound fun? Boring? Does it cater too hard one way or the other? Is there anything you do/don't like specifically? Is it too similar to original diadem?

For me personally, I'd enjoy the living shit out of this.

[lawow74]

Likes: Randomized layout, Exploratory Mission-style progress (kill shit to fill a bar, boss spawns), 8-man content.

Dislikes: Having to pay Tomestones to enter (should only cost a nominal amount of Gil), key items being obtained via other content (should only be in this content, encouraging exploration of same to get them), randomized boss mechanics (should be randomized boss instead), randomized enemy mechanics (should be randomized enemies instead).

Suggestions: Add Traps a'la POTD to further complicate matters (have key items possibly spawn to eliminate them/disable them for a short amount of time).

Basically, I prefer having set mechanics you learn and can predict through visual cues (boss has glowing eyes so it has a Gaze attack, for example) than having to adjust on the fly. I like randomized layouts and such as that keeps it from being too predictable, and especially by enforcing trinity roles, traps are an entirely fair mechanic to include as you will expect healers to have to deal with such things on the fly. Traps need not only be debilitating/damaging. Some of the enemy mechanics could also be tied into them (i.e. an Alarm trap that calls the nearest trash pack/s down on you).

[Katchii]

@Wrecktangle

I'd personally rather there not be any flying, and simply have connected landmasses with easily found, but difficult to traverse paths to get to the deeper parts of the "dungeon."

I'm not sure yet if I'm 100% on board with the randomly generated layout or the random entry point.

Just looking at this I already see/ feel a FFXI Dynamis/ Abyssea vibe, which I'm actually fine with because as zones with specific purposes regarding relic weapon upgrades, those zones were done quite well IMO, it was the sheer amount of grind itself that made them rough. Rather than have the whole place scale, I'd rather there be a definitive progression in enemy difficulty as you venture deeper into the dungeon, with the enemies respawning and there being a forceable boss spawn using a rare drop key item that could also be created using a reasonable number of normal drop rate items (similar to totems). You want better rewards? More challenge? Head deeper inside. The rating system you have listed, with more mechanics etc... would be applied to the different areas rather than across the entire zone so people could organically scale up or down as they progress or as they like, rather than just turning a dial.

Rather than a time limit that could be adjusted via a key item, just have a flat max limit with an entry cost that scaled based on how long you wanted to stay up to a 2 hour max. Since it IS instanced dungeon content, I'd really rather it not be possible for some groups/ FC's with unlimited resources being able to just squat in the zone taking up server space. It's minor, but would be in line with how other instanced content is handled.

I also like your affixes, but rather than it being random and applying to everything, have specific enemy types that behave that way and have them respawn randomly so you have to adjust your gameplay accordingly as they appear. ie flying birds flee at low HP, armored enemies can't be CC'd, groups of beastmen have a commander that boosts their damage and their subordinates enrage when he dies, certain enemy types (snakes, insects, archers/ assassin type enemies) stack DoT's, enemies that use hammers/ mace type weapons (blunt bludgeoning type instruments) inflict vulnerability stacks, magical debuff type enemies (succubus, imps, mindflayer, etc...) can inflict healing debuffs, "crazy" or maddened enemies don't have a threat table and attack randomly (could even be part of their enrage effect).

Hope this makes sense. Let me know if you have questions..I had two work meetings in between me writing this so my thoughts got interrupted so I hope it flows well.

[Graeham]

I like the sound of a lot of the ideas proposed. I'm pretty eager for some instanced content that lasts and remains relevant and profitable for multiple patches but isn't too awkward to enter on a whim. I'd be fine with spending tomes to gain entry because it's a lot less contrived than the gate that bars people from the higher floors on POTD.

[Wrecktangle]

Dislikes: Having to pay Tomestones to enter (should only cost a nominal amount of Gil), key items being obtained via other content (should only be in this content, encouraging exploration of same to get them), randomized boss mechanics (should be randomized boss instead), randomized enemy mechanics (should be randomized enemies instead).

The reason I chose tomestones was because I wanted a way for people to get together with others to do the content. I didn't want it to be free (aka nominal gil). Let's say you and your squad (of say 6 people) are short on tomes from running it, you could try and find some other players who were willing to throw in their tomes to get into a group. I also wanted a way to translate tomestones into something, (like the old relics did), but have it be more dynamic and less turn in x tomestones for y key item to pass z step.

Another piece to this is that I wanted to make sure it wasn't easily spammable (a la POTD). I wanted players to have to put a little effort into the process which is why I chose tomes (rather than any other current resource/free).

Regarding the key items to enhance the instance, the reason I wanted them in separate content is because I wanted to encourage people to run other content to supplement this content (hopefully to minimize burnout). If I could just queue rapidly into this back to back it could get dry (I tried to make the combat piece as spicy as possible to mitigate that as well).

Regarding random boss vs. random boss mechanics. While I can appreciate your personal desire to have some strict design standards that unfortunately goes directly against what I am attempting to design.

I want you to see a boss and have NO idea what it can do. I want you to have to think on your feet to succeed and that's the fun/challenge. In the lower star difficulties these bosses really don't end up much, if any harder than dungeon bosses (maybe except tuned to like low ilvl so damage actually hurts a tiny bit). Every mistake or sub-optimal play doesn't need to be a run ender. It just slows you down and minimizes the EXP you earn/loot you get. I think it's a viable way to get players to care more about how they play and put effort in. If you only ever fight old bosses you've already fought, it's barely more engaging than the alternative IMO.

Regarding randomized enemy traits. Again, while I can appreciate that you stricter rules on what traits enemies can have, I am not sold that I should tie it to the model of enemy. I like that it's random and forces me and my teammates to adapt on the fly. I also like that on higher difficulties not knowing the traits gives a nice risk/reward especially when you consider available room to fight/nearest pack (or patrol) and what cooldowns you have available as a party. Also keep in mind that the enemy models are also randomized too. So it's randomized traits and enemy models.

One last bit - you have 30 minutes (no enhancements) to clear as many camps/bosses/map/treasures as you're able to. You are not guaranteed to be able to explore the entire map every time. You are not guaranteed to be able to clear every single pack/boss (mechanics at higher stars could create exceptionally challenging fights) every time.

With these design philosophies in mind, does that impact your feelings on the matter?

Suggestions: Add Traps a'la POTD to further complicate matters (have key items possibly spawn to eliminate them/disable them for a short amount of time).

I've toyed with the thought since you've mentioned it. I'm not opposed to it at all. I'd need to think on it and decide to what degree I want to push it. I like the key item bit to disable/influence them.

Basically, I prefer having set mechanics you learn and can predict through visual cues (boss has glowing eyes so it has a Gaze attack, for example) than having to adjust on the fly. I like randomized layouts and such as that keeps it from being too predictable, and especially by enforcing trinity roles, traps are an entirely fair mechanic to include as you will expect healers to have to deal with such things on the fly. Traps need not only be debilitating/damaging. Some of the enemy mechanics could also be tied into them (i.e. an Alarm trap that calls the nearest trash pack/s down on you).

All good input here.

I kid, I kid. Just wanted an excuse to post a Statler and Waldorf picture.

Fun fact, my geometry teacher in high school called me and my buddy waldorf and statler because we just sat in the back corner ripping 1 liners. Good god the good ol days.

Mind spending a little time reading/tossing some analysis on me? I'd be curious what you think.

I'd personally rather there not be any flying, and simply have connected landmasses with easily found, but difficult to traverse paths to get to the deeper parts of the "dungeon."

Fair criticism. The idea behind flying would be like getting it maybe 1 out of 3 times. It would help speed up the exploration/boss finding or to skip particularly dangerous camp areas. I also wasn't 100% sure, but I think I'm ok with you not being able to explore 100% of the map every time (without flying). It's possible there could be land masses/islands that house enemies/bosses that you can't get to without flying due to RNG. The idea that these treasure chests offer REALLY good items and should be seeked out to help you explore etc. is balanced by how powerful those rewards can be I think.

I'm not sure yet if I'm 100% on board with the randomly generated layout or the random entry point.

Fair point, but what exactly are your concerns?

The design philosophy behind it is that you basically get thrown into the deep end. You survey the area and the map and realize we're in the bottom middle section. You then decide how you want to approach, do you want to split up (left/right), stick together one direction? You look at the enemy traits and see its really densely populated with difficult (or easy) traits and decide it's safer to go a different way etc. I like that randomized approach and decision making. On the other hand you'd see a group of easily AOE'able mobs and see a ripe opportunity to get some boss bar filled, despite it being a dead end on the map.

Does that alleviate any concerns of yours or make you more willing to see the idea?

Rather than have the whole place scale, I'd rather there be a definitive progression in enemy difficulty as you venture deeper into the dungeon, with the enemies respawning and there being a forceable boss spawn using a rare drop key item that could also be created using a reasonable number of normal drop rate items (similar to totems). You want better rewards? More challenge? Head deeper inside. The rating system you have listed, with more mechanics etc... would be applied to the different areas rather than across the entire zone so people could organically scale up or down as they progress or as they like, rather than just turning a dial.

One reason I didn't choose this approach (and not saying your way or my way is better/worse) is that I didn't want the maps to be too large. I wanted it to be possible to fully explore the thing occasionally and offer meaningful engagement/challenge for whichever star level you picked. I also didn't want it to be a linear progression. It's possible to spawn surrounded by genuinely tough enemies and then have easier enemies a little further out. It's up to you as a group based on your comp/positioning/time left to decide which approaches to take and why. I REALLY like that design philosophy.

While I do like your idea, I don't think it would be as easy to implement as my solution (but perhaps I am wrong).

Rather than a time limit that could be adjusted via a key item, just have a flat max limit with an entry cost that scaled based on how long you wanted to stay up to a 2 hour max. Since it IS instanced dungeon content, I'd really rather it not be possible for some groups/ FC's with unlimited resources being able to just squat in the zone taking up server space. It's minor, but would be in line with how other instanced content is handled.

I like the time limit better. I know a lot of people hate that feeling of being rushed/timed, but that's what the enhance slots are for. If you're a casual player and you want more time you put in a time extender. If you like more challenge, you put in a difficulty enhancer, etc. I didn't want to create an environment where you always had more time than you needed. I wanted time to be important.

Also - you may have missed it, but the default via DF is 30 minutes. This cannot be changed. Nor can the star rating of 1. In PF it can be changed via 3 enhanceable slots. That means at the absolutely most you can supply 3 time extenders, raising the time to 1 hour. With 1 hour, I'd imagine likely any group could full clear/explore (pending RNG island and no flying). There is no way for groups to hog instances for days.

I also like your affixes, but rather than it being random and applying to everything, have specific enemy types that behave that way and have them respawn randomly so you have to adjust your gameplay accordingly as they appear. ie flying birds flee at low HP, armored enemies can't be CC'd, groups of beastmen have a commander that boosts their damage and their subordinates enrage when he dies, certain enemy types (snakes, insects, archers/ assassin type enemies) stack DoT's, enemies that use hammers/ mace type weapons (blunt bludgeoning type instruments) inflict vulnerability stacks, magical debuff type enemies (succubus, imps, mindflayer, etc...) can inflict healing debuffs, "crazy" or maddened enemies don't have a threat table and attack randomly (could even be part of their enrage effect).

While this approach works at the lower star ratings and is a fine idea, it does defeat what I am going for at the higher levels where you can no longer see what traits enemies have.

Alternatively, what if we took your and lawow's idea of fixed enemy traits, but then layered random ones on top of them as the difficulty increased?

I'm not opposed to that, but I was still hoping to have a little less rigidity.

I like the sound of a lot of the ideas proposed. I'm pretty eager for some instanced content that lasts and remains relevant and profitable for multiple patches but isn't too awkward to enter on a whim. I'd be fine with spending tomes to gain entry because it's a lot less contrived than the gate that bars people from the higher floors on POTD.

Thanks for the points.

[Katchii]

Fair criticism. The idea behind flying would be like getting it maybe 1 out of 3 times. It would help speed up the exploration/boss finding or to skip particularly dangerous camp areas. I also wasn't 100% sure, but I think I'm ok with you not being able to explore 100% of the map every time (without flying). It's possible there could be land masses/islands that house enemies/bosses that you can't get to without flying due to RNG. The idea that these treasure chests offer REALLY good items and should be seeked out to help you explore etc. is balanced by how powerful those rewards can be I think.

I just think having flying be a reward or a huge advantage that it will end up being a carrot on a stick that people strive for to complete their task faster, rather than actually just working on their task. In an environment with a time limit, I think that for something like that is just a distraction.

Fair point, but what exactly are your concerns?

The design philosophy behind it is that you basically get thrown into the deep end. You survey the area and the map and realize we're in the bottom middle section. You then decide how you want to approach, do you want to split up (left/right), stick together one direction? You look at the enemy traits and see its really densely populated with difficult (or easy) traits and decide it's safer to go a different way etc. I like that randomized approach and decision making. On the other hand you'd see a group of easily AOE'able mobs and see a ripe opportunity to get some boss bar filled, despite it being a dead end on the map.

Does that alleviate any concerns of yours or make you more willing to see the idea?

Not really concerns, it's just a preference. If the area were a specific layout, you could plan your adventure beforehand, create PF groups with specific goals and destinations in mind with a clear goal to work toward and a good idea on timing (how long to get there, how long to stay, etc...). Having a random factor included makes that difficult and would add a HUGE bit of frustration if on your random PF group that claims they're good and you crank the difficulty up to say three stars and get placed in a place surrounded by hard monsters and can't proceed. Having a set lay out with defined entry points would allow random groups to find their sweet spot and adjust accordingly and organically.

While i would welcome the random decision making part of what you're suggesting, I think for me that would be far outweighed by the frustration many would feel if RNG worked against them.

One reason I didn't choose this approach (and not saying your way or my way is better/worse) is that I didn't want the maps to be too large. I wanted it to be possible to fully explore the thing occasionally and offer meaningful engagement/challenge for whichever star level you picked. I also didn't want it to be a linear progression. It's possible to spawn surrounded by genuinely tough enemies and then have easier enemies a little further out. It's up to you as a group based on your comp/positioning/time left to decide which approaches to take and why. I REALLY like that design philosophy.

While I do like your idea, I don't think it would be as easy to implement as my solution (but perhaps I am wrong).

The map doesn't need to be too large, you mentioned Azys La which I think would be a good size for either idea. Another idea is to implement quick travel or easy travel shortcuts once you clear an area or meet certain conditions/ criteria so you don't always have to work your way through from beginning to end. The progression doesn't have to be linear either, just have separate sections so people could choose which one they want to work towards rather than it being random.

I like the time limit better. I know a lot of people hate that feeling of being rushed/timed, but that's what the enhance slots are for. If you're a casual player and you want more time you put in a time extender. If you like more challenge, you put in a difficulty enhancer, etc. I didn't want to create an environment where you always had more time than you needed. I wanted time to be important.

Also - you may have missed it, but the default via DF is 30 minutes. This cannot be changed. Nor can the star rating of 1. In PF it can be changed via 3 enhanceable slots. That means at the absolutely most you can supply 3 time extenders, raising the time to 1 hour. With 1 hour, I'd imagine likely any group could full clear/explore (pending RNG island and no flying). There is no way for groups to hog instances for days.

I'm good with the 1 hour time limit. I'd just like to have a set limit with no special items or things to mess with to increase the time. Set time limit with static zone layouts and you have a good recipe for putting together groups that can get the job done in the time limit. I just think RNG + time limit will end up with frustration. I don't mind RNG as a factor in drops, but when it plays into my ability to succeed or not simply by a roll of the dice...I'm not a fan, unless it is a specific inherent part of the content, like Aquapolis.

While this approach works at the lower star ratings and is a fine idea, it does defeat what I am going for at the higher levels where you can no longer see what traits enemies have.

Alternatively, what if we took your and lawow's idea of fixed enemy traits, but then layered random ones on top of them as the difficulty increased?

I'm not opposed to that, but I was still hoping to have a little less rigidity.

To clarify, with my idea the enemy types have relatively static traits, but how and when you see them could be random the respawn spots pull from a pool of all enemy types so you never know what you're going to get or when once you start killing things since literally anything could respawn. Adding additional traits to enemies as the difficulty scales up would be fine. I personally just prefer to be able to see at a glance what kind of enemy I'm dealing with and adjust organically as I come across them, rather than have all enemies have the same traits. It just feels better to me to have specific enemy types have the trait rather than the same enemy having rotating traits. The only way it would make sense to me lore wise and therefore feel non-forced is if it were changling type enemies or lab grown stuff that fit the idea that different versions could have different traits. I just want it to thematically make sense while also making sense mechanically since FFXIV has always done a good job at trying to make the mechanic fit into the lore somehow.

[lawow74]

With these design philosophies in mind, does that impact your feelings on the matter?

Yes.

1)Creation Tomestones are a weekly-limited currency used for the best non-raid gear available. Having to spend those to enter this instance is far, far, far too expensive. This is why I say Gil. The nature of new content is that it should be accessible. What you're proposing would be a huge waste of resources as very few people (IMO at least) would bother with this RNG-fest of difficulty for such a ridiculous price. Imagine if you had to sacrifice your weekly raid loot lockout to do Aquapolis/Lost Canals. IMO this is the sort of thing you're proposing.

2)As mentioned above, excessive RNG makes things not fun (see Aquapolis/Lost Canals). I feel being able to learn and predict what you're up against by visual cues alone, while still having the RNG difficulty of layout and spawns with things like traps is a far better design (see POTD). Unless people were forced into dealing with it as the fastest method of obtaining something, it would be DOA, like Diadem.

TL;DR: Less bullshit gating requirement, fairer RNG difficulty

Additional Thought: Treasure Maps as entry currency, this would give them more of a use besides RNGTrollopolis content

[Wrecktangle]

I just think having flying be a reward or a huge advantage that it will end up being a carrot on a stick that people strive for to complete their task faster, rather than actually just working on their task. In an environment with a time limit, I think that for something like that is just a distraction.

Hmm we're having a disconnect somewhere I think. Flying is a potential reward from finding a treasure chest. Finding a treasure chest takes time and effort, but provides great loot, possibility of flying, and instantly fills the boss gauge. You SHOULD want to seek these things out. They are a huge part of the objective of my Eureka. not only that, but they give a nice Weapon Experience bump too. However, if the treasure chest isn't nearby it may not be beneficial to go after it. Especially if it's an already explored area, or time is running out, or it was trapped behind really dangerous trash mobs/density, etc.

Not really concerns, it's just a preference. If the area were a specific layout, you could plan your adventure beforehand, create PF groups with specific goals and destinations in mind with a clear goal to work toward and a good idea on timing (how long to get there, how long to stay, etc...). Having a random factor included makes that difficult and would add a HUGE bit of frustration if on your random PF group that claims they're good and you crank the difficulty up to say three stars and get placed in a place surrounded by hard monsters and can't proceed. Having a set lay out with defined entry points would allow random groups to find their sweet spot and adjust accordingly and organically.

While i would welcome the random decision making part of what you're suggesting, I think for me that would be far outweighed by the frustration many would feel if RNG worked against them.

I want all preparations to be in response to how you get put in Eureka. I don't want a fixed map where it gets math'd out to do x or y. I want people as a team to decide what to do in the thick of it. I want those decisions to change on the fly as the instance progresses.

I like that sometimes you just get put in a bad spot. Maybe as a group you went a bad direction with low mob density. The idea of failure SHOULD NOT be avoided. Without failure we never grow or try anything new. That's one of my biggest criticisms of this game. If you never let people fail, they'll never try and get better or learn something new. In my Eureka you can fail. Sometimes you can fail because the boss just had really hard mechanics so you leave it, and go kill more trash to spawn a different hopefully easier boss. The point is that I want to add actual decision points in the instance.

I'm good with the 1 hour time limit. I'd just like to have a set limit with no special items or things to mess with to increase the time. Set time limit with static zone layouts and you have a good recipe for putting together groups that can get the job done in the time limit. I just think RNG + time limit will end up with frustration. I don't mind RNG as a factor in drops, but when it plays into my ability to succeed or not simply by a roll of the dice...I'm not a fan, unless it is a specific inherent part of the content, like Aquapolis.

In lower star difficulties absolute failure is rarely/if ever "the games" fault. It's likely poor play. Unless you're doing 3 star+ there isn't any 'real danger' to getting RNG walled, and even then, getting RNG walled once is a thing, not in every conceivable way. I hope that clarifies the RNG difficulty bit (traits/bosses/layout). You might get walled by a super dangerous trash pack, just go around it or go a different way. You might get walled by a really hard boss. Ignore it, spawn another and go kill it. If this phenomenon CONTINUALLY happens I'd hope you'd see the obvious solution. Drop down to a lower star until you get more gear.

To clarify, with my idea the enemy types have relatively static traits, but how and when you see them could be random the respawn spots pull from a pool of all enemy types so you never know what you're going to get or when once you start killing things since literally anything could respawn. Adding additional traits to enemies as the difficulty scales up would be fine. I personally just prefer to be able to see at a glance what kind of enemy I'm dealing with and adjust organically as I come across them, rather than have all enemies have the same traits. It just feels better to me to have specific enemy types have the trait rather than the same enemy having rotating traits. The only way it would make sense to me lore wise and therefore feel non-forced is if it were changling type enemies or lab grown stuff that fit the idea that different versions could have different traits. I just want it to thematically make sense while also making sense mechanically since FFXIV has always done a good job at trying to make the mechanic fit into the lore somehow.

Fair enough all valid points here. Regarding lore, I'm assuming there's a way to make it work, I mean hell they could probably make anything fit the lore if they tried.

Yes.

1)Creation Tomestones are a weekly-limited currency used for the best non-raid gear available. Having to spend those to enter this instance is far, far, far too expensive. This is why I say Gil. The nature of new content is that it should be accessible. What you're proposing would be a huge waste of resources as very few people (IMO at least) would bother with this RNG-fest of difficulty for such a ridiculous price. Imagine if you had to sacrifice your weekly raid loot lockout to do Aquapolis/Lost Canals. IMO this is the sort of thing you're proposing.

2)As mentioned above, excessive RNG makes things not fun (see Aquapolis/Lost Canals). I feel being able to learn and predict what you're up against by visual cues alone, while still having the RNG difficulty of layout and spawns with things like traps is a far better design (see POTD). Unless people were forced into dealing with it as the fastest method of obtaining something, it would be DOA, like Diadem.

TL;DR: Less bullshit gating requirement, fairer RNG difficulty

Additional Thought: Treasure Maps as entry currency, this would give them more of a use besides RNGTrollopolis content

This wasn't clear in my post (I found this out the hard way on reddit). The reason it says Creation is because Creation will be the uncapped tomestone in 4.2, when Eureka would drop. I in error, assumed this was fairly clear, but that's my fault. Said better, the cost to enter will be 200 of whatever the current uncapped tomestone will be.

Regarding "rng difficulty" look above at what I said to Katchii. I have this feeling that people think that the RNG in 1 and 2 stars will be flat out impossible to beat. That's literally far from the case. Even in 3, the difficulty comes from not knowing ahead of time, moreso than the RNG factors.

[Katchii]

@Wrecktangle

Thanks for the clarifications. That does change my stance a bit. I'd still rather have a static lay out to make decision making more clear once you get in, but the starting point, treasure placements and monster distribution could be random each time. That makes it easy for groups to at least plan a path rather than just wandering aimlessly. The only way I'd really be on board with completely random is if the randomness was similar to PotD where it's easily navigable with a straightforward approach to figuring out the layout. Maybe if there were only a few lay outs and which one you get each time is random so you stil have to adjust but you're not completely in the dark. Still just think in a timed event, having too much randomness and no information to go off of could be extremely frustrating.

Everything else I'm OK with.

[Kazgrel]

Looking over this, I get Diablo 3 greater rift vibes from this, which wouldn't be a bad thing at all, although I suppose PotD would be a closer comparison to that?

One of the things I hated with Diadem is the size; it's cool the first couple of times, but once you boiled it down, you could either get objectives right next to each other and finish up rather quickly, or you end up spending as much time travelling from point to point as you did battling. I wouldn't oppose a smaller map/area, even if it were to the extent that flying was left out of it.

Simply fighting hordes of mobs and or mini-bosses (elites) in an effort to spawn the bosses (rift guardians)? Sure, I'd be content to do that some. More interesting that having to clear FATEs...

Not 100% sold on the tomestone fee to enter, but that also depends on whether or not they add more crafting mats in 4.2 that cost tomestones. I think 100-200 per person is reasonable; aka, do a single expert roulette and have enough to pay the entry fee for Eurecka (feel free to trademark and/or spin that ). Not everyone wants/needs to spend tomes to gear every single job in the game, unlike some people...hey, that looks like me.