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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Snes's Avatar
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    Assassination PvE build

    Since deadly brew also applies other poisons, I would benefit from both the burst damage of having 2 instant poisons and deadly poison would always be up as well, which boosts mutilate damage by 50%, in addition to the 20% mutilate damage boost from opportunity in subtlety, along with a 30% mutilate crit damage boost from lethality. As far as upping the crit chances itself, you get a 26% passive critical hit chance boost for mutilate (assuming that someone, somewhere in your raid happens to dodge, block, or parry which is..likely.), and assuming the mobs are more than just one enemy, relentless strikes can help up the next mutilate crit chance to 66% which isn't bad, and killing an enemy in a raid isn't something out of the ordinary. As well, the instant poisons and deadly poisons get a 40% damage boost total from vile poisons and infectious poisons. I've played mutilate for a long time, I don't care if someone is like "noob roll combat swords its the only way kthnxbye". Let's try and keep it a discussion and not an argument.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Ronnosh's Avatar
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    Re: Assassination PvE build

    I don't care if someone is like "noob roll combat swords its the only way kthnxbye". Let's try and keep it a discussion and not an argument.
    With the change to WF being a raidwide 20% melee haste boost, Swords will no longer be getting the ridiculous chains of extra attacks they do now, and with Assassination getting fleshed out the way it did, I'd say Combat Swords will no longer be clear cut DPS king spec for rogues. That being said, here's my theorized PVE build:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    41/20/0 Combat Mutilate has surpassed Combat Daggers in PVE DPS since the Puncturing Wounds change. The additional talents would serve to ramp up the DPS via poison application. With the buffing of Imp Poisons, a +5% chance to app is sufficient enough. Fleet Footed is there simply for the fact that faster movement = less DPS downtime on hit and run fights.

    The standard-fare combat talents serve to provide consistent long-haul damage, which is vital to any PVE rogue who intends to be a full-time raider.

    This spec IMO gives a much more ideal balance of combat's consistent long-haul DPS with Assassination's lethal potent short-haul burst damage.

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  3. #3

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    1. Try to use your enter key :P

    2.
    I've also had some thought's about mutilate in PVE, the new talents definately give it a lift.

    I would'nt bother with Oppertunity though, go for Duel wield, will give you more damage per mutilate then Opp will, and boosts your white damage to boot, a MUST for any PvE rogue.

    Slice and Dice - MUST have for a PvE rogue.

    Remorseless over Murder? Do you even do boss fight's or just farm Non-elite mobs in Raid's? :<

    Relentless is a good talent, but can be dropped (espcially with the muti build, combo points out of your ear's) in favour of more points to get dual wield.

    Just 3/5 improved poisons, this is just a Point dump, could be put in imp evi or Remosre or whatever the F*** you want , at the end of the day, 2 x Instant(+Deadly with Brew talent) you'll keep it up and get it up quickly enough anyway even at 0/5 in imp poisons.

    My major dilema was whether to take turn the table's or drop it, i think turn the table's will make or break this build. As with the 5 point's in Cut to the Chase you need all the crit you can get on your Combo's (Envenom spam in this case, im not sure if Combo's refer to move's like SS/Muti (Someone confirm pls)) to refresh that SnD so you can spam more Evenoms and keep your damage top banana , but then you do have to drop 2 point's in find weakness :<, it is a tough call but im sure some theory crafter out there can sort that out to the 1-2dps difference it makes.

    Also had to drop infectious poisons that seem a more PVP talent, nice damage boost but theres other skills i prefer i.e. dual wield :>

    Focused Attacks, Energy regen, nuff said.

    Blood splatter - why take Turn the tables when you'll use a move that doesnt crit, and cant refresh your SnD either, and will do less damage even at 20% more then your envenom (I'd think :P).

    3.
    you get a 26% passive critical hit chance Im not sure where you get this from. 15% from puncturing, 6% (Maybo, not sure) from turn the table's, remorseless if you spec it once in a blue moon.

    I've played mutilate for a long time - Did you ever play PvE?

    EDIT - added my theory build.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Snes's Avatar
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    Re: Assassination PvE build

    So much for keeping it a discussion. Anyways, yes I have PvE'd, and the crit chance for mutilate goes:
    -5% from malice
    -6% from turn the tables
    -15% from puncturing wounds
    This is assuming an ordinary raid situation with 2+ enemies. Learn basic addition before criticizing.
    As for your build, you traded off 20% mutilate bonus damage(from opportunity), 20% poison damage[+effect](from infectious poisons), 60% chance of adding combo point(from ruthlessness) and 20% rupture bonus damage(from blood spatter), and 10% chance to apply poison(from imp poisons)

    for:-50% offhand damage
    -sprint/evasion cooldown reduction
    -longer slice and dice
    You've obviously never played mutilate PvE. You spend most of the time, stationary, behind the target, using mutilates and ruptures in between slice and dices, and when you do need to run, chances are you sprint will be on CD even without the talent, so it's basically situational. The 50% offhand bonus damage doesn't really make up for the 20% TOTAL mutilate bonus you lose from opportunity, along with 20% poison damage boost from infectious poisons(both instant and deadly).

  5. #5

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    I think you're all wrong!

    A merge between today's superior Combatswords and tomorrows superior Assa-trees provideth thus:
    WOTLK Assa-spec of dewm

  6. #6

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    So far i don't like the look of any of these specs, the 51 point in assass takes too much away from elsewhere. I you just go for mutilate and then make it as powerful as it can be, as i did, then you might like this one.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    You get a massively improved mutilate with plenty of crit, duel wield spec and opportunity so it is maximising mutilate dps. Hunger for blood is a waste of energy atm, 5% damage for 10 seconds for 30 energy i don't see it being better than having oppo and DW in your spec. If they make it similar to a fury warrior's rampage, then it might be worth it.
    Carlsberg don't make DPS, but if they did...

  7. #7

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    My idea of assas build:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000
    - Skip Ruth - mutilate has great combo generation anyway;
    - Strong poisons and really fast rebuilded full DP stack after using Envenom;
    - Quick recovery instead of Fleet footed (you always have some enchants or gems for faster running) and Imp KS (wtf?!);
    - Infectious Poisons instead of Blood spatter - DP and IP do more dmg than Rapture even if Rapture is 100% up on the target;
    - In Combat tree - sometimes you just have to use SS and Gouge is sometimes used as a interrupter.

    Edit: Wrong link

  8. #8

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000
    You know it's the only right build.

    51 Talent doesn't do enough DPE unfortunately. I would prefer it as some kind of AR in the Assa Tree, making it 2 min. CD and 20 sec. duration, giving a bit more than the fully stacked Buff would.

  9. #9

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    Syrek, youve just copied Eski's build (Was it your plan? If not then when youre changing someone elses build you have to copy the NEW link that is changing along with your changes, not then one that is in addres bar).
    Eski's build can be imo improved in many ways so its "the only right build" (Imp KS is just fail fe).

  10. #10

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Phresh
    Anyhow, I guess 19/52/0 will be the leading PvE-build
    Probably yes. But sometimes I just like to have some fun while dpsing some lower-requirement raids and thats when it comes to be Mutilate specced

  11. #11

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    Oh my god. Looking over some of those specs was simply painful. With a highflow CP generating build like Mutilate having one finishing move in your rotation is not an option. With the ability to refresh SnD with crit envenoms/eviscerates there is no need to have IMP SnD as you could effectively have it always refreshing. Not going with the 51pt Talent also shows a lack of thinking on your part. There are very few boss fights where a bleed effect or magic affects are not applied, this is not only a FREE way of removing them but also buffing your damage (as if used when a bleed/magic effect is upon the caster i.e yourself. it removes one of each and refunds the energy cost of the spell i.e Hunger for Blood) Blood Spatter is a must as very few raids go without a feral druid and there is an instant bleed damage raid buff. For an assassination build I would be looking at something like http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    *Edit* Depending on figures however I would be look to drop a point in Find Weakness for the last point in Turn the Tables. It all depends on how much DPS each provides.

    *Edit 2* the rotation I would be using is - Opening Fight - Garrote holding 1 second for energy tick timing, SnD, Mutilate, CB - Envenom/Eviscerate
    - Regular Rotation - Mutilate, Mutliate, rupture, Mutilate, Mutilate, Envenom/Eviscerate (dropping the
    Envenom/Eviscerate if SnD is about to run out and CB is on CD (after all not worth risking a non crit and having
    SnD drop)

  12. #12

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    A little evaluation of my previous build:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    As for your choice Vonloopnstab (what a name! ) - going with "2xmuti, Rap, 2xmuti, Evi/Env" and counting on lucky crit during one 21 seconded SnD may be tricky. I dont bother if Evi/Env crits (just keep SnD by my own, refreshing Rapture all the time and Eviscerating/Envenoming when I can). In your case it may look like "pls crit-crit-crit... damn it! ---> SnD drops...".
    But you got the point if it goes for HfB (however it may be nerfed because it sounds a little too OP for PvP - no more fmage kiting?).
    Finally DW Specialization is imo just must have for any PvE specc.

  13. #13

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Snes
    So much for keeping it a discussion. Anyways, yes I have PvE'd, and the crit chance for mutilate goes:
    -5% from malice
    -6% from turn the tables
    -15% from puncturing wounds
    This is assuming an ordinary raid situation with 2+ enemies. Learn basic addition before criticizing.
    As for your build, you traded off 20% mutilate bonus damage(from opportunity), 20% poison damage[+effect](from infectious poisons), 60% chance of adding combo point(from ruthlessness) and 20% rupture bonus damage(from blood spatter), and 10% chance to apply poison(from imp poisons)

    for:-50% offhand damage
    -sprint/evasion cooldown reduction
    -longer slice and dice
    You've obviously never played mutilate PvE. You spend most of the time, stationary, behind the target, using mutilates and ruptures in between slice and dices, and when you do need to run, chances are you sprint will be on CD even without the talent, so it's basically situational. The 50% offhand bonus damage doesn't really make up for the 20% TOTAL mutilate bonus you lose from opportunity, along with 20% poison damage boost from infectious poisons(both instant and deadly).
    Sigh. you really did'nt read my post.

    Relentless is a good talent, but can be dropped (espcially with the muti build, combo points out of your ear's) in favour of more points to get dual wield.
    Relentless drop explained.

    20% poison damage[+effect](from infectious poisons)
    - the effect? im sorry, ive never seen a boss dispell a poison before :<, and if you actually read my post, you'd see i had a dilema where to put these last few points, in my build i opted for turn the table's to boost my crit chance on Envenom and such, which i will be spamming hence the drop of Blood splatter aswell.

    Sprint/Evasion CD is very situational, but tell me a better place to put them 2 point's, Parry, very probably, i find it funny you think i put those point's there for pve reasons.

    50% off-hand damage, a lot of your damage will come from mutilate, 50% more dmg from your offhand on your Mutilate's can be as useful as Opp, AND you boost your White damage.

    As for the slice n dice hater's, along the way to dual wield there's not much better to take and it gives me more room for when envenom's dont crit.


  14. #14

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisu
    Syrek, youve just copied Eski's build (Was it your plan? If not then when youre changing someone elses build you have to copy the NEW link that is changing along with your changes, not then one that is in addres bar).
    Eski's build can be imo improved in many ways so its "the only right build" (Imp KS is just fail fe).
    You're right, I'm sorry.

    New link:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

  15. #15

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    I also think by looking at the talents and how they play out for daggers that they will be might be able to stand up to swords in PvE. The WF buff helps sword spec more than dagger spec though. I wonder if anyone in the beta has tested both out?

  16. #16

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Irstr
    The WF buff helps sword spec more than dagger spec though.
    First off, I'm not sure if it is a buff at all. It's a change, but I wouldn't call it a buff. More likely, it's a nerf for all the classes that wield 2-handed weapons.

    Second, with the newly established synergy of melee crits in the Ass-Tree, combined with melee haste from the totem, I'm not entirely sure if Swordspec will actually benefit more.

  17. #17

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    I'm not sure about the top two ranks of Assassination tree atm. I think "cut to the chase" is weak and you could end up dropping SnD if ure relying on crit evis/envenom to keep it up. Hunger seems a but more PvP oriented, I don't think its worth it unless you can pretty much guarentee getting free casts often, 30 energy and a global CD is big chunk out of ure cycle. I'd still rather have good old blade flurry in a build like this:-

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    Where the last few points go, i dunno. either oppertunity or dagger spec. Oppertunity looks strong on the face of it, but an extra 3% passive crit on all attacks could stuck up well with focused attacks.

    EDIT: On the WF change, it will be a bigger buff to swords but I think will still stack quite well with focused attacks, more haste= more attacks = more crits = more energy.

  18. #18

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Crisu
    My idea of assas build:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000
    - Skip Ruth - mutilate has great combo generation anyway;
    - Strong poisons and really fast rebuilded full DP stack after using Envenom;
    - Quick recovery instead of Fleet footed (you always have some enchants or gems for faster running) and Imp KS (wtf?!);
    - Infectious Poisons instead of Blood spatter - DP and IP do more dmg than Rapture even if Rapture is 100% up on the target;
    - In Combat tree - sometimes you just have to use SS and Gouge is sometimes used as a interrupter.

    Edit: Wrong link
    True story, your spec is better.
    Carlsberg don't make DPS, but if they did...

  19. #19

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    [quote=Mustafa ]
    You prefer 2% Damage, to Blade furry? =p

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

    Anyway Combat will end up better:
    100% sure

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

  20. #20

    Re: Assassination PvE build

    Unless envenom/evis get a serious DPS buff in scaling cut to the chase will be pointless because it wont out dps sword spec white hits and the all famous 4s/5r cycle. 20/51/0 -- 19/52/0 will still be *The Spec* because mutilate is an energy hog that not alot of ppl can weave in well and who uses Evis/Envenom on a target and forgoes 4s/5r.

    Dont be mad they could have mad daggers the shit but they didnt its blizz afterall.
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