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  1. #21

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizjub
    The points in Divine Gaurdian arent all that bad, its a classic paladin move for multiple mob tanking. This way even if for some reason ur notth getting the aggro on all the mobs, your the only one the heavy hits. I can see its not usefull, or a disadvantage for main tanking in raids, but for OT its seems good.

    Think about it, your in a raid, beacon of light the main tank, ot paly pops his shield even though hes not tanking or taking major damage, hell take 30% of the brut and your main tank will stilll feel the effect of the heals, so none are "wasted". Its like giving your MT a few second "HIGH FIVE"
    Sorry, but I have to agree with Evereghalo. That skill is completely useless, and everything he has said thus far is simply correct. Pally OT? LOL!

    /sarcasm off

    I like you Nizjub.
    Quote Originally Posted by Il1dan
    Sorry bro but it is mmo-champion the #1 QQ web site on the net

  2. #22

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    I really expected a lot more from the people that visit MMO-C.

    I need to make something perfectly clear. Divine Guardian effects Divine SHIELD. SHIELD. Divine PROTECTION is that spell you use for 12 seconds of immunity to damage, Divine SHIELD is that spell you quit using a long time ago because it has the same CD as Protection but a 4 second shorter duration.

    Divine SHIELD is being changed in Wrath to negate 50% damage instead of 100%. It is NO LONGER an aggro dump, or immunity to damage. It's our very own SHIELD WALL. That's why Divine Guardian exists, and that's why it is in the prot tree. That why it isn't stupid to take it. It is FAR from useless.

    50% less damage is 50% less aggro from particular passive procs, so why not buff that a bit and take 30% of the damage your raid is taking?

    Personally, I am going to try to take Divine Guardian, unless once I start playing something else is far more important to me.

    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZa0VAdugteIRhoeb00b

    This my current build idea for level 80. Some things will change but this is the jist of it.

    Say what you want about it, criticize what you will, but I will call you out on things if you fail to explain yourself or provide a valid argument.


    I feel sorry for the people in here being yelled at by you idiots that don't know about whatever you are yelling about. Stop throwing around absolutes, it only makes you look more ignorant when you are wrong.

  3. #23

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evereghalo
    What have I said that is incorrect?

    Did you even critique the main build? No,

    Everything I have said is correct. And I was impartial, why do you not go troll somewhere else. The only talent I said that was required is ardent defender, and in oh shyt situations that less damage is nice on healers. And so is devotion aura. Better to not wipe then stand on principal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquid_Beaver
    I feel sorry for the people in here being yelled at by you idiots that don't know about whatever you are yelling about. Stop throwing around absolutes, it only makes you look more ignorant when you are wrong.
    lulz
    Quote Originally Posted by Il1dan
    Sorry bro but it is mmo-champion the #1 QQ web site on the net

  4. #24

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liquid_Beaver
    I really expected a lot more from the people that visit MMO-C.

    I need to make something perfectly clear. Divine Guardian effects Divine SHIELD. SHIELD. Divine PROTECTION is that spell you use for 12 seconds of immunity to damage, Divine SHIELD is that spell you quit using a long time ago because it has the same CD as Protection but a 4 second shorter duration.

    Divine SHIELD is being changed in Wrath to negate 50% damage instead of 100%. It is NO LONGER an aggro dump, or immunity to damage. It's our very own SHIELD WALL. That's why Divine Guardian exists, and that's why it is in the prot tree. That why it isn't stupid to take it. It is FAR from useless.

    50% less damage is 50% less aggro from particular passive procs, so why not buff that a bit and take 30% of the damage your raid is taking?

    Personally, I am going to try to take Divine Guardian, unless once I start playing something else is far more important to me.

    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZa0VAdugteIRhoeb00b

    This my current build idea for level 80. Some things will change but this is the jist of it.

    Say what you want about it, criticize what you will, but I will call you out on things if you fail to explain yourself or provide a valid argument.


    I feel sorry for the people in here being yelled at by you idiots that don't know about whatever you are yelling about. Stop throwing around absolutes, it only makes you look more ignorant when you are wrong.
    Lots wrong there. first divine SHIELD is the same as always:
    Protects the paladin from all damage and spells for 12 sec, but increases the time between his or her attacks by 100%. Once protected, the target cannot be protected by Divine Shield, Divine Protection or Hand of Protection again for 3 min.

    what your thinking of is divine PROTECTION:
    Reduces all damage taken by 50% for 12 sec, but increases the time between your attacks by 100%. Once protected, the target cannot be protected by Divine Shield, Divine Protection or Hand of Protection again for 3 min.

    The talent you are thus taking is a useful OT skill when the paladin is doing shit all else to reduce group damage.
    Next i idsagree on kings being a prot talent to take now, it's too expensive for us. But holy and ret can now get it for a much cheaper price than previously. It used to cost 11 talent points to get for them, now it only costs 5. Where as we would spend 1 point on the way but now have to spend 5.

    My opinion of reckoning isn't very high either, firstly for the parries, and secondly for the fact that the more mitigation you get and the better your gear improvees, the worse reckoning becomes as you take damage less often. So reckonign actually gets worse as you get better.

    That said, this is the build I will be using:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...10251533312321
    The spare 5 points will either be put into -10% mana cost on instants, or if mana is no issue thanks to bosanc/heals/cost reductions in prot I'll got for heart of the crusader + imp judgements

    Edit:typos.

  5. #25

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMcFlurry

    My opinion of reckoning isn't very high either, firstly for the parries, and secondly for the fact that the more mitigation you get and the better yoru gear improvees, teh worse reckoning becomes as you take damage less often. So reckonign actually gets worse as you get better.
    I was told that Reckoning procs off of blocks now, that true? I would also like to ask why Benediction is being taken with most builds? Isn't it's use less of a need with the changes to BoS?

  6. #26

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Damiun
    I would also like to ask why Benediction is being taken with most builds? Isn't it's use less of a need with the changes to BoS?
    Because it affects pretty much every spell we use now. However, you still asked the right question. Do we need it or not? Some say yes, some say no. I have no clue at the moment, and I don't think many others do either.

    Personally I don't think we'll need it, but that's just a guess/wish. 5 more points to spend elsewhere.

    A better question is why are so many tanks willing to spend 5 points for BoK? Crazies!
    Quote Originally Posted by Il1dan
    Sorry bro but it is mmo-champion the #1 QQ web site on the net

  7. #27

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Damiun
    I was told that Reckoning procs off of blocks now, that true? I would also like to ask why Benediction is being taken with most builds? Isn't it's use less of a need with the changes to BoS?
    Well It always procced off of partial procs, but not full block, which sure vs raid mobs you arne't likely to get anyway. But still, with miss, parry and dodge cobined on a raid geared level paladin, it reduces the chance for reckoning to proc to about 7%ish instead of 10%. And again the parries, and considering the current opinion of tanking seals is SoV/SoCorruption, hitting fast wont make much difference if you already have 5 stacks up as it is. So I'm not fussed on gaining a few bonus white hits.

    And yes, it is less of a need, that's why i said id take it unless mana worked out to eb less of an issue, which i wont know until i test in raid conditions and while levelling otherwise I'd get HotC + imp judgement for the group benefits.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome
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    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aayla
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVAcuMteIRhoxf00b

    That would be my suggest Main Tankadin build.

    Improved Hammer of Justice
    It has an interrupt this in itself improves its usefulness ALOT, it is not required but I would reccomend it.

    Improved Dev Aura
    I believe the only other healing buff such as dev aura is tree form but still the armour increase is about 1k at lvl 70 which isnt bad for 3 points.

    Divine Guardian
    I cant work out how this is making it into prot specs its ONLY our immunity bubble that procs it and we arnt doing that whilst tanking, as an OT build barely passable but MT build DO NOT TAKE IT.

    Pursuit of Justice
    Well your almost this far into ret, reduces disarm effects and increases movement speed by 15% that can be a life saver chasing bosses from scrub DPS and just getting close enough to throw now instant Avengers Shield.

    In Saying all this im expecting people to disagree and I want critique of my spec as long as you provide evidence I will respond to it, if theres any talents you believe I need feel free to mention them I will say why I have or havnt taken them.
    I agree with everything evern pursuit of justice up untill most of the raiding you do is 10 and 25man content which then the dps should not be lazy, and most mobs dont run away.

  9. #29
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    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liquid_Beaver
    I really expected a lot more from the people that visit MMO-C.

    I need to make something perfectly clear. Divine Guardian effects Divine SHIELD. SHIELD. Divine PROTECTION is that spell you use for 12 seconds of immunity to damage, Divine SHIELD is that spell you quit using a long time ago because it has the same CD as Protection but a 4 second shorter duration.

    Divine SHIELD is being changed in Wrath to negate 50% damage instead of 100%. It is NO LONGER an aggro dump, or immunity to damage. It's our very own SHIELD WALL. That's why Divine Guardian exists, and that's why it is in the prot tree. That why it isn't stupid to take it. It is FAR from useless.

    50% less damage is 50% less aggro from particular passive procs, so why not buff that a bit and take 30% of the damage your raid is taking?

    Personally, I am going to try to take Divine Guardian, unless once I start playing something else is far more important to me.

    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZa0VAdugteIRhoeb00b

    This my current build idea for level 80. Some things will change but this is the jist of it.

    Say what you want about it, criticize what you will, but I will call you out on things if you fail to explain yourself or provide a valid argument.


    I feel sorry for the people in here being yelled at by you idiots that don't know about whatever you are yelling about. Stop throwing around absolutes, it only makes you look more ignorant when you are wrong.

    EHHH, WRONG RE-READ YOUR SHYT, IF THIS WAS YOUR FIRST POST PLEASE DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT AND DO NOT POST HERE ANYMORE, PLEASE JUST DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE FOR SHAME,

    INFACT DELETE YOUR WOW ACCOUNT.

    PROOF:

    Divine Protection
    lvl6 Reduces all damage taken by 50% for 12 sec, but increases the time between your attacks by 100%. Once protected, the target cannot be protected by Divine Shield, Divine Protection or Hand of Protection again for 3 min.
    3% of base mana, Instant cast, 5 min cooldown. (WITH CHANGE, USED TO BE 100%)[/color]

    Divine Shield
    lvl34 Protects the paladin from all damage and spells for 12 sec, but increases the time between his or her attacks by 100%. Once protected, the target cannot be protected by Divine Shield, Divine Protection or Hand of Protection again for 3 min.
    3% of base mana, Instant cast, 5 min cooldown

    LINK: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=611

  10. #30

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aayla
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVAcuMteIRhoxf00b

    That would be my suggest Main Tankadin build.

    Improved Hammer of Justice
    It has an interrupt this in itself improves its usefulness ALOT, it is not required but I would reccomend it.

    Improved Dev Aura
    I believe the only other healing buff such as dev aura is tree form but still the armour increase is about 1k at lvl 70 which isnt bad for 3 points.

    Divine Guardian
    I cant work out how this is making it into prot specs its ONLY our immunity bubble that procs it and we arnt doing that whilst tanking, as an OT build barely passable but MT build DO NOT TAKE IT.

    Pursuit of Justice
    Well your almost this far into ret, reduces disarm effects and increases movement speed by 15% that can be a life saver chasing bosses from scrub DPS and just getting close enough to throw now instant Avengers Shield.

    In Saying all this im expecting people to disagree and I want critique of my spec as long as you provide evidence I will respond to it, if theres any talents you believe I need feel free to mention them I will say why I have or havnt taken them.
    Judgements of the just beats pursuit of justice imo, considering it works fine on raid bosses. I mean, a 20% attack speed increaseon the boss is pretty uber. drops the bosses autoattack dps to about 83%. It's the best attack speed debuff in game in fact, beats dethfrost, beats thunderclap, beats icy talons.

  11. #31

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMcFlurry
    Well It always procced off of partial procs, but not full block, which sure vs raid mobs you arne't likely to get anyway. But still, with miss, parry and dodge cobined on a raid geared level paladin, it reduces the chance for reckoning to proc to about 7%ish instead of 10%. And again the parries, and considering the current opinion of tanking seals is SoV/SoCorruption, hitting fast wont make much difference if you already have 5 stacks up as it is. So I'm not fussed on gaining a few bonus white hits.

    And yes, it is less of a need, that's why i said id take it unless mana worked out to eb less of an issue, which i wont know until i test in raid conditions and while levelling otherwise I'd get HotC + imp judgement for the group benefits.
    Thats kewl. I was sorta testing the new talents on the PTR, not sure if the dugeons are set to ez mode or not, but I was able to solo Ramparts at 70 with so so gear (not great, but able to be uncrit and uncrush). I did note that with the changes I hardly ran out of mana and I didn't have BEN so I thought I might ask. I didn't have Reck, never really had it spec'd cuz I didn't see the benefits, was hoping that might have changed it though to make it viable... don't sound like they did though?

  12. #32

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Ok, I'm just going to link what I plan on using for my level 80 tanking spec, and why. More important than finding the perfect cookie-cutter build, is finding what you need the most for your particular playstyle, and optimizing for that. What makes cookie-cutter easier for us than for some others, is that we really don't do all that much PvP as prot, so there's less variation due to "PvP builds".

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...10251533312321

    Not what a lot of other people are saying to do, but I'll explain my choices; I'm not going to comment on all the "mandatory" talents (Toughness, Anticipation, Holy Shield, etc).

    Seals of the Pure: Simply too large an increase in my threat generation to ignore comfortably.

    Blessing of Kings: Because in the end, I had enough points to take this without giving up anything else I really felt I needed. If this seems like complete nonsense to you, please read the rest of my reasoning before commenting. It makes sense for me, I promise.

    Improved Hammer of Justice: An interrupt on a 30 sec CD isn't enough to be the sole interrupter on critical fights, but there were times when the person assigned to interrupt was, for some reason, unable to. As a tank, I'll be in the midst of the fight, and aware of what's going on at all times; I have to be. This isn't so I can do it every time; it's so I can cover the gaps, and keep the raid from dying (which is, after all, the job of the tank).

    Improved Devotion Aura: My fiancee (soon to be wife) plays a Restoration Druid. We always instance and raid together. As such, I'll always benefit from Tree of Life Aura; I do not feel the need to spend 3 talent points just for the increase in the armor buff of Devotion Aura.

    Reckoning: Aside from my dislike of this talent on a personal level, I plan on using Seal of Vengeance as my primary tanking seal, Glyphed for extra expertise. Reckoning would still grant some benefit to me, but not enough to justify the talent points here.

    Judgments of the Just: Yes, warriors can do this too, and to more targets at a time... but I'll always be judging, and I won't always have a warrior at my side (my guild currently does not have any warrior tanks that regularly run with us).

    Benediction: I don't know how we'll be doing on mana in the end... at level 72 in the beta I had no issues whatsoever, but any reduction is a good thing. I had a few extra points to spare, this talent will always be useful, unlike some of the others I passed up.

    Heart of the Crusader: Between ret paladins, Elemental Shamans, and Combat Rogues, I really don't feel any need to have this particular talent.

    Improved Judgment: There is a really good article on Tankadin rotations over on the maintankadin forums. Short version: Even with two points in this talent, you wind up only being able to use it effectively once every 9 seconds, due to cooldown clipping. Thus, the extra point here is a complete waste, but without any, you wind up not with an effective cooldown of 13 seconds (give or take) due to cooldown clipping on higher threat abilities. That's a grossly simplified version; for the details, go over there and read it; they did the work, I won't take any credit away from them by parroting their work over here.

    Pursuit of Justice: I love this talent, I really do, but I don't feel it's worth taking points out of prot to put into ret simply for a movement speed buff.


    A lot of that is personal choice, combined with personal situation (not everyone has a resto druid that goes with them into every single dungeon and raid, for instance). Just my thoughts and opinions on the situation as it currently stands.

  13. #33

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Well I got that wrong. Boy do I look like a fool. In my defense, I didn't get many things wrong, I got 1 thing wrong that changes everything else in my post.

    Regardless, thanks MrMcFlurry, for not just saying "LAWL L2P" but explaining it. My mistake is the different between viability and nearly none when it comes to being the MT. The only place it might work are on those particular bosses that wipe aggro at random, but that would require coordination in DPS anyway, so it isnt needed.

    For my 2 cents on Kings, I don't know personally about the itemization in Wrath for strength, but I look at Divine Strength as you must have strength to build off of in order for 15% to make a difference. If the itemization leans heavily toward Strength and Stam, this would make quite the difference. I will personally be taking Kings up until I can guarantee that every group I will be in can give it to me instead. Also, if I have to make my way up in a guild, and am forced into a position other than MT, I would most likely be giving the MT BoSanc anyway, so having Kings as well may guarantee me a spot atleast, even if it isnt MT. I don't agree that it costs more to take now than it did before. It takes 5 points instead of 1, but it also a Tier 1 talent instead of a Tier 3 talent. So actually it was 11 points before and 5 now. I don't think that makes it any more expensive. The REAL question is, do you put more value in Divine Strength or Kings. They cost the same amount to get, but which is better? Or like someone suggested, should you get both? I don't know about you, but as I level up, I WILL have kings. There will be many instances, whether they are 5 man or group quests, where I may be the only paladin in the group. To me that justifies it by itself.

    When it comes to Reckoning what everyone is saying is true. Reckoning procs less as your gear gets better. Reckoning can proc off of partial blocks, so the difference in it proccing off of full blocks (difference between 4/5 and 5/5 in Reckoning), isn't that huge of a change. The problem is however, is if you compound the problem of it proccing less by putting less points into the talent, so it procs EVEN LESS. When you are in that situation where your gear against equal level mobs yields nearly no procs, you should either put 5/5 points in it to give yourself the highest probability of proccing it, or no points at all, as 4/5 Reckoning plus good gear equals very few procs to justify getting the talent in the first place.

    The parry gibbing argument is weird. Could someone post more about it please? I understand that when you parry an attack, the next attack that mob has also has a 40% haste modifier. So you get attacked 40% faster on the next swing. That sounds as if it would only be an issue if a mob or bosses swings, and the next swing with 40% haste on it, would be enough to kill you. If you are fighting things that can do that, by all means avoid Reckoning, but the VAST majority of mobs and bosses you will encounter before level 80 shouldnt be able to 2 hit you from full health like that.

    If anyone can explain parry gibbing more thoroughly then I can please do. I am curious to know whether it is a more serious and frequently occurring problem than I am thinking.

  14. #34

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    My point about the cost was, that pre-new talents, if you were holy or ret adn wanted kings, you'd have to spec into 10 other talents to access it because it was tier 3, and those talents would 90% of the time be useless to you. Talking in a pve point of view this is. I mean, there's so little if any at all situations where a holy paladin is gonna need more armour, defense, or blocking ability. so effectively, just for hte sake of BoK is costs 11 talent points. But now it costs them only 5. But on the other hand, protadins would most certainly have the prior 10 talents anyway, those 10 talent points aren't extra filler just so they can reach a different talent. As such, really, it only cost them one extra talent point. But now, it costs 5 extra talent points.

    Personally, I would rather divine strength plus BoSanc. When I tank, I will have bosanc every time. The mana return is irreplacable in my opinion, plus the overall damage reduction just to add icing to the cake.

    Id rather keep bok aside for when another paladin is in the group, other group members would surely be as happy with bom and bow.

    Now, onto parry-gibbing. This is the reason a tank should yell at his melee dps if they aren't dpsing from behind. apart from teh cleave avoidage, adn pless parries = more dps. a boss parrying your attack deals mroe damage to the tank. Being a tank in essence involves a balance between defense and threat, and as such you should focus on improving both sides as much as possible. Thing about reckoning is that it increases your offense a little (not a whole lot if using SoV might i add, after the first 5 stacks reckoning gives no holy damage bonus) and lowers your defensive capabilities due to parries increasing damage on you. Basically, you want to be as easily healable as possible for your healers, otherwise you will likely come across a point where they slacked a bit, the boss parried and also used a coooldown striek and suddenly your dead. It can happen.

    On of the best examples of parry gibbing is on prince in Karazhan during his second phase. To a kara level tank, his flurries can potentialy do 9-12k each (3x hits in one swing, each doing 2-4k depending on gear). and it is possible, with a parry, for him to do this twice in about hte space of a second. a cool 20k damage. It's unlikely for it to happen, but it is possible. Is just a good example.

    Basically, parries increase damage on you. As a tank, that is something you dont want. Espescially if you are getting into long fights that are testing your healers concentration and mana management.


    I would only suggest reckoning to somebody levelling, when their mitigation is poor and the mobs your fighting hit like fish.

  15. #35

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMcFlurry
    My point about the cost was, that pre-new talents, if you were holy or ret adn wanted kings, you'd have to spec into 10 other talents to access it because it was tier 3, and those talents would 90% of the time be useless to you. Talking in a pve point of view this is. I mean, there's so little if any at all situations where a holy paladin is gonna need more armour, defense, or blocking ability. so effectively, just for hte sake of BoK is costs 11 talent points. But now it costs them only 5. But on the other hand, protadins would most certainly have the prior 10 talents anyway, those 10 talent points aren't extra filler just so they can reach a different talent. As such, really, it only cost them one extra talent point. But now, it costs 5 extra talent points.

    Personally, I would rather divine strength plus BoSanc. When I tank, I will have bosanc every time. The mana return is irreplacable in my opinion, plus the overall damage reduction just to add icing to the cake.

    Id rather keep bok aside for when another paladin is in the group, other group members would surely be as happy with bom and bow.

    Now, onto parry-gibbing. This is the reason a tank should yell at his melee dps if they aren't dpsing from behind. apart from teh cleave avoidage, adn pless parries = more dps. a boss parrying your attack deals mroe damage to the tank. Being a tank in essence involves a balance between defense and threat, and as such you should focus on improving both sides as much as possible. Thing about reckoning is that it increases your offense a little (not a whole lot if using SoV might i add, after the first 5 stacks reckoning gives no holy damage bonus) and lowers your defensive capabilities due to parries increasing damage on you. Basically, you want to be as easily healable as possible for your healers, otherwise you will likely come across a point where they slacked a bit, the boss parried and also used a coooldown striek and suddenly your dead. It can happen.

    On of the best examples of parry gibbing is on prince in Karazhan during his second phase. To a kara level tank, his flurries can potentialy do 9-12k each (3x hits in one swing, each doing 2-4k depending on gear). and it is possible, with a parry, for him to do this twice in about hte space of a second. a cool 20k damage. It's unlikely for it to happen, but it is possible. Is just a good example.

    Basically, parries increase damage on you. As a tank, that is something you dont want. Espescially if you are getting into long fights that are testing your healers concentration and mana management.


    I would only suggest reckoning to somebody levelling, when their mitigation is poor and the mobs your fighting hit like fish.
    The concept of parry gibbing has been at least overstated for pallys. It was always more of a warrior concern because a quick counter attack from a mob could leave a warrior susceptible to a crushing blow, or could have even been a crushing blow. This is not the case for pallys, further even with reckoning in TBC we don't send anywhere near the number of parryable attacks at a mob as a warrior does. If you are interested in reckoning for the threat, which I'd say is really lackluster anyhow because of SoV, don't let the concept of parried attacks hamper your decision, it's really quite minor.

  16. #36
    Mechagnome
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    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    There are 3 phases to these builds. So when you do make a build we should be smart about what phase.

    Phase 1 - Leveling 70-79.

    Seals of the Pure: Not worth it in this phase because Vengence is not the top threat gen talent,

    Benediction: Almost needed for this phase because of the stress it takes off grinding, and while BoSanc is mana, you might be missing those needed heals to cover up the rest of mana regen.

    Improved HoJ: Needed for run aways and life savors if you over agro.

    Divine Guardian: Maybe but still useless.

    Imp Dev Aura: Not worth it at this level, unless your bro of gf is a ret pally.

    Rekoning: Might be good esp till lvl 75 when you get SoR.

    Judgements of the Just: Not worth the points.

    - Then most the other cookie cutter talents are still pretty good if not a yes --

    Phase 2: Lvl 80, Heroics and start of 10 mans.

    Seals of the Pure: Almost a yes, a YES YES YES, if you glyph vengencse.

    Benediction: Less needed, still a personal choice, can be usefull if healer ooms or having problems in heroics and you just have to burn mana fast for threat.

    Recoknoing: Stats to experience diminishing returns from gear at this point on. Still helpfull, Maybe go with the 3/5pts that has been recommended before.

    Judgements of the Just: Starts to be very helpfull with how hard heroic bosses should hit when you are in blues. And in 10 mans no guaranteed warriors, or alternative.

    Divine Guardian: Now useless.

    HoJ: Still fun to have, can serve as a good filler esp if you come up against a shade of Aran fight.

    Imp Dev Aura: 50/50. You might not have a druid in the group which would make having this nice, but the otherside of the coin is that if you do not have a ret pally then well ret aura is part of your threat gen.

    Phase 3: 25 Content+

    When you start the raiding phse, and you are geared (over geared) for heroics.

    This is when a lot of questions come in. Most depend if you are or not the guild main tank.

    Seals of the Pure: If vengeance is your tanking seal then yes. Every bt of threat gen is needed.

    BoK: No, (I saved this till last because it really is personal pref) Sanctuary is your new buff, no its and ors butts. With 2 buffs gone from the game. Might, Wisdom, Kings and Sanc left, this is your buff to buff the raid.

    Divine Guardian: Useless if you MT

    Reconking: You should be at 50% avoidance at this level, so I say No,

    Benediction: Constant heals, and Sanc make this not needed.

    JotJust: Still yes and no, if you got the space take it, if you got a prot warrior that is always in ur 25s then maybe not.

    Imp HoJ: In 25 content, not really needed. It does help but there are a lot of other classes where it is their responsiblty.

    Imp Dev Aura: 66/33 You should most likely have a resto druid in the raid, but you will most likely have a ret paladin. However you would still then use dev aura, because the ret paladin's is tronger. So if you frosee having the points and are specing for end game raiding, and are thinking of typical make up of your guild. Then yes.

    ------------------------

    These are just my thoughts. That when we do speak of builds, it depends on what level of content you are in, or what role you are performing.


  17. #37
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    696

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerohmeee

    I really think this is a problem that needs to be fixed. I am a prot pally and we have a holy pally also. Neither one of us want to spec into kings... I think they should make this an 1 pointer. As a tank I am going to be using blessing of sanc, but I will still want kings. It kinda sucks.
    If you make it a 1point talent then Holy, WILL NOT GET IT. Because it can not be a 1pt tier 1 talent. All holy will go 15 into ret for the extra crit which is great for single target tank healing.

    Honestly, it will get to a point where it did pre-bc with rogues. IF a rogue had improved sap they would be taken immediately.

    As a tank, if I have a holy paly that wants into my grp and they do not have Kings. Then I might look for another healer for a few more minutes before I get back to them.

    As bad as it is to say this, it is in Holy's best interest to get this not only 1) because it helps a lot with 5 mans in every way. 2) if the nerfs are as bad as some people are saying then this is an edge that they will need.

  18. #38

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerohmeee

    I really think this is a problem that needs to be fixed. I am a prot pally and we have a holy pally also. Neither one of us want to spec into kings... I think they should make this an 1 pointer. As a tank I am going to be using blessing of sanc, but I will still want kings. It kinda sucks.
    I still say, make BoKings baseline, but offer 5% stat increase rather than the current 10%. Add a 3 point talent in Tier 2 of Protection that increases the stat increase of BoK by 1 / 3 / 5%, bringing it back up to baseline for less talents. It's not so deep that Holy and Ret will refuse to get it and it's much easier for Prot to snag it (3 points instead of 5). Everyone wins.

    Also, if you glance at the tree in my signature, you will see Imp. Devotion Aura and a new Shield Mastery talent are in Tier 1. Holy will benefit from grabbing both (Devo aura helps with healing, shield spec provides a flat 5% damage increase when using a shield), while Ret will surely grab Divine Strength.

    There is also some compatibility with Stoicism; 2 points so it meshes well with Imp. BoK, making a trip to Tier 3 (for Guardian's Favor or the new 11 pt talent, a spell-breaker strike) much less frustrating.
    - Renowned expert in the field of Paladinery -
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    North Lordaeron - Stratholme
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  19. #39

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Hey, Retro. Has War-Tools not been working for you either? I haven't been able to access it in like 2 days. ??? lol

  20. #40

    Re: IS this 80 Prot Spec MMO Approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moar Pew Pew
    Hey, Retro. Has War-Tools not been working for you either? I haven't been able to access it in like 2 days. ??? lol
    seems to be working fine to me...
    - Renowned expert in the field of Paladinery -
    - & Author of -
    The Highly Acclaimed "Reinvention" Threads
    North Lordaeron - Stratholme
    - Angor Coast-

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