Hit and expertise cap for ret at level 80.

[Requital]

I've never in my life gemmed for hit. Not warrior/paladin/shaman should.

Melee hit cap is a joke. Just get the gear for it.

This ^^

Currently I have 111 Hit Rating in PvP Gear, Gemmed full Crit and Side Strength. Do I need 111 no but I wanted to see where I would be sitting if I had nothing that provided additional hit but a Weapon and enchants.

Damage: 992 - 1214
Speed: 3.60
Power 1964
Hit Rating: 111
Crit Chance: 38.54%
Expertise: 0

If you have trouble hitting these stats in PvE gear I do not know what to tell you, When we killed the Alliance leaders I was wearing 260 Hit. It's very easy to cap hit without sacrificing other stats, I suggest you look at the gear options and avoid just reading Spreadsheets. Raw DPS increase in hitting with less AP then missing 8% of the time no matter how you look at it.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...her&n=Requital

[mightus]

I've never in my life gemmed for hit. Not warrior/paladin/shaman should.

Melee hit cap is a joke. Just get the gear for it.

I have all the ret pieces from sunwell, including apolyon and im nowhere near the hit cap.
Though i do agree hit gear is a joke to get in bt and hyjal. It is very easy to cap because most of the gear has hit on it but that it not true in sunwell.

[mightus]

Umm I was wondering about this (Prot Warrior, Ex-Fury) and decided to take a look at the Ret DPS spreadsheet done by Redcape on 10/26. It was the most recent one I could find without doing an absurd amount of searching. Perhaps he fixed it in a later version I didn't run across, but there is an error.

I found a rather large mistake in his spreadsheet. When he was calculating the mitigation from armor he used the boss's level instead of the attacker's level (i.e. the player's level). The difference of 3 levels in the equation leads to less damage mitigated by armor. The difference is about 1-2% less damage actually done, iirc. Either way it leads to inflated values for Str and Crit.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Armor - for the Mitigation from armor equation.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17193-p...62/#post953335
^ Red's post.

Just something I found while looking at the inner workings.

1-2% is not enough to change the stats value significantly enough. Str is significantly better than hit and Hit is already better than crit.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17193-p...90/#post973117 newest spreadsheet from yesterday, if you need it.

[Jathine]

1-2% is not enough to change the stats value significantly enough. Str is significantly better than hit and Hit is already better than crit.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17193-p...90/#post973117 newest spreadsheet from yesterday, if you need it.

Str is better by a rather large amount, I did see that from his spreadsheet. However, the Armor mitigation should be changed since it is a rather simple fix. 1-2% can change things quite a bit more than you would think when you are dealing with numerous interdependent equations.

I don't post on EJ since I stick mainly to Tankspot, so would you mind pointing out the mistake to Red for me? Maybe I am reading his equations wrong, but it should be brought to his attention to at least be double checked.

[sillverhair]

this is what ill be doing, and i cant say for sure its the best way but itll definetly help

i get all the +hit gear i can get and i gem red: str, yellow: crit, blue: str
that has brought me a long way so far (tho tbh im hitcapped atm)

on the other hand im thinking about reaching the hitcap coz never missing is a nice idea tbh, (not sure about this tho)

[Siegfried]

From what i've read everyone is forgetting that that 1% chance to miss can now be filled so that old 9% hit cap is now 10%

This applies only to spellhit. (17% is now the cap instead of 16%)

[Happy Jedi]

Well, I'm not a god in maths but logic should suggests that having hundred of thousand of attack power is somewhat useless if you don't hit the target 8% of the times, think of judgement... if it misses you lose mana regen.

[Offhand]

Remember that AP, str, and crit increase dps by a linear amount. Hit will increase dps by a percent based amount (until capped). Mathematically speaking, there must be some point in which hit becomes a better stat to stack.

[Swampmoose]

From what I read recently, this is what I remembered seeing.

Take the hit you get off of gear and socket Str in any socket except a yellow socket where you would then socket a str+hit gem **only if you would net a socket bonus of Str** until you reach the cap of 9%. Even if you are below the hit cap, you would still gem str unless you were getting the socket bonus of str. It was a few weeks ago when I read this but from what I saw 1 str was almost twice as much dps as 1 hit.

[Adamson]

^

I saw the same post.

Also:

<3 swampy

[Swampmoose]

^

I saw the same post.

Also:

<3 swampy

<3

[Sephirote]

Well for now I know we need 295hit rating at lvl80!

My main Focus is be at 295Hit rating then Haste - Strengh - and the rest come with it!

I got around 600Haste and I use Seal of Blood, I'm getting heal so I got some mana regen from there either ! ^.^
and I do some insane DPS, I cant link u the link of the site that I found that but it was theorycrafting that prove that u was getting more DPS with haste and SoB then stacking strengh and crit with SoC

Off corse this is for PVE content and not some PVP !

PVP will be more Crit - Strengh - SoC and with out forgetting the resilience for sure

[Aloysius]

Please provide a link and proof since your calculations do not agree with any legitimate website prior postings or dps spreadhseets. Btw, since you have a talent that gives u a bonus to Str which makes Str the most scalable stat, there is no way increasing swing speed alone (not to mention not giving you an AP or crit bonus) improves your dps more.

[Chmur]

Well for now I know we need 295hit rating at lvl80!

My main Focus is be at 295Hit rating then Haste - Strengh - and the rest come with it!

I am sorry but this stacking is utter crap. Haste effectively affects only weapon swing, which means more SoB procs sent in, does not in any way affect your cooldowns and thus multiplying your rotation. Such amount of haste would be ridiculous. Preffering anything above STR with juicy 15% bonus and Sheath of Light flags you as, sorry to say, clueless.

I got around 600Haste and I use Seal of Blood, I'm getting heal so I got some mana regen from there either ! ^.^
and I do some insane DPS, I cant link u the link of the site that I found that but it was theorycrafting that prove that u was getting more DPS with haste and SoB then stacking strengh and crit with SoC

I would so like to see the spreadsheet backing this up. And stacking STR and crit with SoB will give you more DPS than haste + SoB. And last question - what is "insane DPS" and what is your ret kit? As Armory shows you as prot. Thanks.

Back to topic - hit is 9% which tranlates into 295 rating, lower that by 1% for alliance ret paladins for most of situations. Expertise rating is capped somewhere just above 200 iirc, 204 or 210.

[Eolra]

I find it amusing that so many people link back to redcape's dps spreadsheet on EJ claiming str >>>> hit. Please read the rest of the posts from the knowledgeable theorycrafter's that post there. Yes Str is the most valuable stat but not at the cost of mediocre hit rating. Itemization can clearly be found to achieve 3k unbuffed ap with 295/6 hit. Even if you have to wear leather/mail. So far from my own dps tests
hit till cap then str >> crit/expertise > haste. Looking through the naxx10/25 gear there is a lot of plate dps that allows hit cap without forcing gemming and still maximizes str. If you are sacrificing hit to gain 2-300ap over a paladin with 3k unbuffed and 295 hit rating they are going to outdps you on same rotation due to your misses.

[Barellron]

This thread is full of fail (lol haste) and unnecessary arguments. You never have to choose between STR and hit unless you're gemming for hit, which is a bad idea to begin with. DPS plate will always have STR and non-plate will always have attack power in a similar amount. The choice is almost always hit vs. crit, and hit wins hands down (to the cap). And its so terribly easy to get hit, even with plate, that you must be failing intentionally to not have 200+ pre-naxx. Gloves from heroic oculus, legs from heroic UK, bracer from blacksmithing, titansteel hammer, shoulders from halls of lightning quest. 5 pieces and you're almost done.

[Applegarth]

wrong.

www.elitistjerks.com

go learn something.

Nice.
You linked the front page of a website and not the the actual post about hit rating.
You sir, are fail.

Actually dispute that last post of mine, Offhand did a remarkably good job making sure you realized you failed at linking.

[Bonefinger]

According to EJ, the hit cap rating is 8% and expertise rating is 26.

Observations
Adding this section to clarify some things regarding hits, crits, and expertise. Also a warning, this section will probably change over time as we get more accurate data sampling.

Much of this section is thanks Retesting hit table assumptions . The people in that thread have solid math, and Vulajin has provided pretty solid evidence of these theories (40000+ swings!)
Current theories:
You now need 8%, not the BC 9%, to be 2H melee hitcapped vs skull level mobs (bosses).
You (still) need 26 expertise (6.50%) to be expertise capped, not the 6.25% reported lately.
All melee classes seem to suffer a 4.8% crit suppression vs skull mobs; this means that your melee critrate will be on average 1.8% lower than your character sheet implies (HotC covers 3% of this, procs from librams and such not accounted for).
The spell hit cap is still 17% - the only skills we have that are affected by this are exorcism, holy wrath, and the first tick of consecrate - so this is of little importance to us.

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t37843-r...d_wrath_3_0_a/

[Diasent]

Its really simple, guys, you have to sacrifice some DPS to hit more. Missing 10% of the time and doing 3600 DPS Means that you would have been doing 3960 DPS. But if you sacrifice 100 DPS for the for hit to make you miss 1% of the time, That would still put you somewhere around 3930. So the sacrifice is still worth it reguardless. You just have to grow to the points gradually together, but once you get your hit capped, you can go nuts with the strength

[Bigslick]

Are you [censored] messing with me?

Are you replying to and expecting this to be read (much less answered) by a someone whose post was made over 4 1/2 months ago?