Do Ret Paladins need to be nerfed?

[Ion]

With this, I will say I will not post in this thread after this, as the predictable wrath of people who are afraid of change, and like to be overpowered, will rage on with illogical responses. I will read them however, and myself and my friends will be amused by your bickering.

It's about time. It's clear resilence is only going to make the paladin stronger when the BG's Arena's go on. Best Defense and High Burst combined with resilence with a barely noticeable and exploitable weakness is going to ruin things.

AND I see threads of them asking for Mortal Strike. Absolutely ridiculous.

I can deal with the bubble. I can deal with the partial bubble. I can deal with lay on hands. I can deal with the fact they can heal themselves. I can deal with the fact that Holy Damage is largely unmitigated and has no resists from anything, at all. I can even deal with the fact that they have the capability of killing a target from 100-0, within a single hammer of justice stun.

What I cannot deal with is a paladin with the freedom of mobility, to go anywhere without the fear of being snared/rooted, and removing stuns from the talent Divine Purpose. This is wrong, and is very unballanced. Paladins NEED this weakness. It's the only thing that will bring them down to a balanced level without touching anything else about a Ret Paladin.

Why is it Paladins can kill targets (even resilenced targets currently) within a single hammer of justice stun (or right after) AND they can remove stuns afflicted upon them? Or be granted immunity of movement impairing effects?

Please consider this alternative, to nerfing Retribution Paladins.

[skaarrj]

GOD YES! It's about time!!! They're too much of a problem! Really I think their damage just needs to be nerfed, as whenever I'm in a BG, all too common I see a Ret Paladin at the top. It leads me to believe they're overpowered. And even more so when I see them do damage against me, or anyone else.

Resilience will only do better things for them.

[justfight]

first of all, paladins cannot lay on hands in arena!!

2nd: i did some research on the top 20 2v2 teams of my battlegroup adn this were the results:

-DK: 11 players
-holy paladin : 11 players
-mage: 3
-rogue: 3
-feral druid: 3
-warriors: 2
-priests: 2
-retri pallys: 2
-hunter: 1
-resto shaman: 1
-balance druid: 1

So there do are alot of pallys in the top a total of 13/40 BUT retri is far off from being total OP in top arena
so no nerf needed as far as i can see...

[iktankniet]

can i use your tears to polish my armor?

[Nest]

Yup.
Got a lvl 80 Retardin myself tho.

[Realizations]

can i use your tears to polish my armor?

Can I use your moronic ability to try and make a flame to make me lol, Yes, I can. <3.

[Unknown]

yes

[Executis]

Well do have to give you credit for being a bit more creative with your ideas on how to fix the ret paladin then other threads I have read where the OP just trolls on and on about bubble. Having played a pally for a good while, before changing mains in BC, I think that this would be a good direction to go with any possible changes. I agree that paladins have a slight edge on mobility compared to a good number of classes.

[WoW2k6]

Yes, together with Mages, Rogues and DKs!

[xxzincxx]

Ret Pallies are just fine the way they are. People keep hitting classes with a nerfbat because they got pwned some day by this class.... STOP CRYING. Learn to pvp and stop ruining the fun for the people who enjoy this game.

This is all

[Axolotl]

slight edge... yeah right!!

anyway, divine purpose switch with imp HoJ and be moved deeper down the tree.

and imp HoJ should be nerfed to hell, if not taken out. Take it out and give pallies a pummel instead.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

How is Resilience going to make Ret stronger?

The only way that makes any kind of sense is if you factor the guaranteed crit of Judgement of Command against stunned targets, which is still mitigated by Resilience.

Ret Paladins do crazy BURST, resilience specifically reduces BURST damage from crits, the main form of damage you're seeing from Retribution.

I can put it best this way: If Ret did less burst damage, but their sustained suffered no change, would they still be OP?

I doubt it. Rogues, DKs, and Ret Paladins are ironically the best represented DPS in the Arena, because they're the hardest hit by Resilience.

[xxzincxx]

also another thing....you ask to take away Divine Purpose from a pally....well, i move to remove blink from mages, dual wield from rogues, and pets from hunters.

This will make things way more balanced.

[Lionne]

Ret Pallies are just fine the way they are. People keep hitting classes with a nerfbat because they got pwned some day by this class.... STOP CRYING. Learn to pvp and stop ruining the fun for the people who enjoy this game.

This is all

I obviously have no clue what you, personally, was saying 5 months ago. (Or whenever S3 was). But then it was the paladins complaining. And druids and rogues were describing themselves as "just fine". :P

I've said before on this forum that I think burst damage is too high, if damage is brought down, so are the retties. So no, I don't personally think ret paladins specifically needs a nerf.

[Judgernaught]

Thanks for the tears.

I'll use them to water my patch of gaysies.

For the longest time ret was a joke, and now that we can hang, everyone wants to QQ. There are ways to trump a paladin. So, simply because you are not skilled enough to do so, does not warrant a nerf.

[Khorban]

Wow, what a load of QQ. Seriously people, I though the bitching about Ret days were over. Guess I was wrong. OK, time to try and clarify some things:

1) LoH is not usable in Arenas. Problem solved.
2) Holy damage is no longer a significant portion of our damage dealt. Most of our abilities were move to the physical school for the very reason you're complaining about. Blizzard acknowledged this already and it has been dealt with. Apparently you didn't get the memo.
3) Hammer of Justice stun is a mere 6 second duration, and while that may seem huge in PvP, it has a 1 min CD, with the possibility of a 30 second CD if specced 19 points into the Prot tree. Ret paladins only have the option of speccing for amazing damage and no survivability, or good survivability/utility with moderate damage. Learn to use trinket faster.
4) As far as freedom of mobility is concerned, how are our abilities (Hand of Freedom, etc) any more OP than those of other classes? Sure, we can remove ourselves from snares for a brief period, but HoF has a 25 sec CD and a 10 second duration, leaving plenty of time for more roots/snares. Our only ability worth getting mad about might be bubble, but that can be mass dispelled, and you said you're cool with it anyway.
5) FYI, Divine Purpose does not allow us to remove stuns from ourselves, as we can't cast it when stunned, duh. It's usefulness comes into play when playing with a partner or team and one of them gets stunned. We have bubble and trinket for when we're stunned. Again, this isn't news.

But I don't really care what you make of all this. I'm Holy and play almost nothing but PvE. I'm just sick and tired of people whining about things they clearly don't understand. Learn to make the most of your class before you start complaining about others. Trust me, it's far more productive.

[PreTbc]

U my friend dont have the slightest idea about what the arena today looks like.
first of all in every battlegroup RET paladins are not overrepresented atall.
the only thing is that paladins are fucking amasing up to 1900 rating since the players there aint to skilled and got way worse gear then they should.
if u try to give away your worthless lvl 70 brutal gear and go for some 80 pve gear or pvp that got some stamina u will see wonders.
and if u play smart they aint that much of a problem.

paladins win by stunning their enemy to death there is no chance in hell to simply kill a healer without any stun/silence or such
we win purely on the burst so save the trinket and play as a team trinkets and all stuffs u can do yourself if u cant do anything get some help from your mate ...

sorry for my bad english

[Piscesthepally]

You trinket our stun. Pretty easy.

Why do I get the feeling people are calling for balance based on random battleground encounters.

[Tèmpést]

Blizzard is widely aware that burst damage in PvP is beyond what they've expected, and Ret Paladins fit in the burst category. Once Blizzard lowers the burst damage in PvP, Ret Paladins will be doing lower burst damage. Just for now, adapt and find new ways to counter Ret Paladins. Next time, grab a buddy to help you bring down one when he BoFreedom himself - it won't mean you can't stun him during the duration.

If you're stunned by a Ret Paladin, use that friggin Insignia that you can get. If you're a class that can get talents to reduce stun durations, get them... If you don't have talents that do so, get a meta with a 10% stun duration reduction. If you have damage mitigation spells (e.g. Mana Shield, Ice Barrier, Bone Shield, ect. ect.), use it. If you're really fighting a losing battle, you can at least run (battleground wise). Ret Paladins are still kitable with snares and such after BoFreedom is off. It has a cooldown you know...

Quit crying about Ret Paladins, they're fine the way they are. I have a Prot Paladin, but I occasionally swap specs once in a while for PvP.

[Choff]

All that is needed to tone down the insane burst is to make seals work like they did in TBC. This means they only proc from autoattack (white hits). Seal damage can be buffed up to compensate for the loss of DPS in PvE.