Beast Mastery Raid DPS needs some help: Now!

[Sturmbringe]

Beast Mastery’s Raid DPS needs some help, now before it’s too late, while the PTR is still up.

I recently changed servers and guilds to one of the end-game raid guilds. Suddenly, I found myself competing against competent players with best in-slot gear, players who like me, have worked extensively on their class’ rotation, theorycraft, and abilities.

The problem is I think, that Beast Mastery does not scale well with gear. In lower gear levels, when everyone has blues and some epic crafted gear, T7 (Heroes’) or mostly T7, BM can still hold its own. As BM, I can still top DPS meters in PUG raids, and VOA raids, where people raid with their alts or raid just for fun, not quite bothering to maximize their DPS. Still though, in T7 gear raids, I might still lose 1 or 2 DPS spots to a competent Warlock, Mage, DK., or Survival Hunter.

Now, when in a raid where almost everyone has got T7.5 (Valorous) and best-in-slot gear or even full T7 and fully epic gear, things change dramatically. In short terms, BM gets blown out of the water. BM simply does not have a chance to compete in current end-game, no matter a player’s skill.

The problem is that Beast Mastery loses the DPS race to:

a. Most Hybrids with comparable gear.
b. All pures with comparable gear.
c. Survival and Marksmen with comparable gear.

-I am basically using the highest-yield DPS BM spec, suggested by the EJ poster Mattaos in his Beast Mastery Bible Thread at the Elitist Jerks forums.

Here’s my gear:

1. Heroes’ Cryptstalker’s Headpiece
2. Pendant of the outcast hero
3. Heroes’ Cryptstalker Shoulders
4. Ice Striker’s Cloak
5. Heroes’ Cryptstalker Tunic
6. Giantmaim bracers
7. Rusted-Link Spiked Gauntlets
8. Sovereign’s belt
9. Heroes’ Cryptstalker Leggings
10. Boots of the Neverending Path
11. Titanium Impact Band
12. Stained-Glass Shard Ring
13. Mirror of Truth
14. Incisor’s Fragment
15. Staff of Trickery
16. Accursed Bow of the Elite

All i-level 200 epic items, except the ring and the trinket. Hit capped through the Draenei buff. I never ever miss. I had got 5,454 Attack Power Raid Buffed , and 4,254 Attack Power self-buffed.

Here’s how my raid’s Damage Meters looked like in our March 4th Naxx 25 raid:

OVERALL DAMAGE DONE (AKA TRASH METERS). Naxx 25
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Death Knight
2. Frostfire Mage
3. Mutilate Rogue
4. Survival Hunter
5. TG Warrior
6. Destro Warlock
7. Balance Druid
8. TG Warrior
9. **Beast Mastery Hunter
10. Shadow Priest
11. Frostfire Mage
12. Frostfire Mage
13. Balance Druid
14. Ret Paladin
15. Death Knight (woefully undergeared)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7606/trashmeters.jpg

Now, trash meters are not AT ALL important, because on the one hand nobody really looks at them, and on the other hand some people tend to go afk or partially afk during trash, or simply not quite bother too much. It’s the boss encounters that ppl upload at WWS (WoW Web Stats) and ponder over.

Let’s have a look at Boss Meters:

1. Thaddius 25
---------------------

1. Destro Warlock 7,200.5
2. Frostfire Mage 6,959.7
3. TG Warr 6,387.8
4. TG Warr 6,311.2
5. Death Knight 6,097
6. Frostfire Mage 6,274.5
7. Surv Hunter 6,097
8. Mut Rogue 5,645
9. Frostfire Mage 5,726
10. Enh Shaman 5,515
11. Balance Druid 5,832
12. Ret Paladin 4,923
13. Destro Warlock 4,557
14. **Beast Mastery Hunter 4,362
15. Death Knight 3,144 (woefully undergeared)

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5678/thaddius25.jpg

Now, I am aware that Thaddius is a gimmick fight, and generally DPS isn’t so high in other encounters, but this gives you a good idea of how a BM performs regardless of DPS fluctuations. I have put Thaddius in, to show that NOT even all the very powerful +damage stack buffs that you get during the fight, are in fact able to raise your DPS by any substantial amount. The difference between Patch and Thaddius, is a mere 350 DPS. This shows exactly how poorly a Beast master's DPS scales with buffs.


2. Patchwerk 25
-----------------------

1. Destro Warlock 5, 997
2. Frostfire Mage 5,758
3. TG Warr 5,642
4. Surv Hunter 5,557
5. Death Knight 5,499
6. Frostfire Mage 4,899
7. Balance Druid 4,704
8. TG Warr 4,466
9. Enh Shaman 4,342
10. Mut Rogue 4,142
11. Frostfire Mage 4,099
12. Ret Paladin 3,936
13. **Beast Mastery Hunter 3,977
14. Death Knight 3,973
15. Enh Shaman 3,930
16. Death Knight 2,342 (woefully undergeared)

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5781/patch25.jpg

The Rogue was semi-afk on this encounter, watching Arsenal on TV. Just saying.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, the highest Beast Mastery DPS ever observed post patch 3.0.8, was that of Tobin on US Dalvengyr at a Patchwerk Naxx 25 fight.

Tobin (Night Elf), US Dalvengyr (20-1-2009): 5,407
http://wowwebstats.com/i6jvufjitzndg...=140115-170250

Tobin is a fellow Elitist Jerks poster with best in-slot gear who had some friends in her raid giving her hysteria, her raid's shamans timing their Heroism with her Beastial Wrath and in general had them trying to maximize her DPS as much as possible. Her raid also did far too good DPS, thus making her DPS to appear greater than what it should have been, due to higher Heroism uptime and short encounter duration.

As you will see her saying here (at Elitist Jerks)…

http://elitistjerks.com/1066477-post1004.html

…the only fight she succeeded in remaining competitive as a Beast Master was Patchwerk. She was practically destroyed dps-wise in all other fights.

To make you understand the magnitude of the problem, the next highest Beast Master’s DPS recorded after patch 3.0.8, is that of an Orc Hunter who did 4,700ish DPS at Naxx 25 Patchwerk, while in an average raid where people did not bother to give him hysteria etc. Orcs have got an extra +5% Pet Damage through Command, Bloodfury, etc. which help them be potentially the game’s best Beast Masters.

Conclusion:
-----------------

----------------->What we have here, is a pure DPS class spec, Beast Mastery, that has been reduced to the status of a Hybrid DPS spec. Not only it lags substantially behind Survival Hunter Builds, but it cannot even compete with Hybrid DPS specs in end game raids, much less with top pure DPS’ers such as Warlocks and Mages.

What we ALSO have here is a failure to communicate, Blizzard. We have told you that Beast Mastery needed fixing, and yet you took the spec and nerfed it so hard that you put it in the league of Hybrid DPS’ers.

Now, the Wild Hunt and Shark Attack changes on the PTR, while nice, will not solve the problem. You see, giving my pet 200 Attack Power and +1% pet damage, is not magically going to close the 2k DPS gap between Beast Masters and Warlocks, Mages, and Survival Hunters.

Suggestion:
-----------------

You need to come up with a way to buff up our Raid DPS without buffing up the DPS of other trees or that of the pet too much. A nice way would be to add + Steady Shot damage to the Ferocious Inspiration talent, which is in any case way down the Beast Mastery tree, and won’t affect PvP at all, due to the Steady Shot long cast time. Also, the pet certainly needs more than +200 AP and +1% pet damage if we are to see Beast Mastery ever be even REMOTELY competitive in end game raids.

EDITED TO REFLECT THE PTR 3.1.0 Build 9658 NERF TO WILD HUNT

Thank God we have the modify option, I can hardly keep up with Blizzard's nerfs to Beast Mastery

[Sturmbringe]

Explanatory Notes:
---------------------

---------------------->How do I came up with the +1% pet damage figure on the PTR:

Currently (live), Ferocity Pets gain a +10% pet damage increase, however, this will be changed in 3.1 wherein the +10% damage modifier will be converted to +5% Damage, +5% Health and +5% Armour for all pet families.

3.0.9 Ferocity Pet: +10% pet damage

3.10 Ferocity Pet with 2/2 Shark Attack: +11% Damage, +5% Health, +5% Armour

3.10 Ferocity Pet WITHOUT 2/2 Shark Attack: +5% Damage, +5% Health, +5% Armour

Gain of: 1% Pet Damage if your Ferocity pet has got 2/2 Shark Attack.

Loss of: 5% Pet Damage if your Ferocity pet DOES NOT have 2/2 Shark Attack.

*Shark Attack grants your pet +6% damage.

------------------------>How do I came up with the +400 pet AP figure on the PTR:

LIVE:

Hunter AP/Stamina: 4,145/17,073
Pet AP/Stamina: 1,631/11,202

Old PTR 1:

Hunter AP/Stamina: 4,145/17,073
Pet AP/Stamina: 3,372/15,378 (2/2 Wild Hunt)

Old PTR 2 (HOTFIX TO BUGGED WILD HUNT):

Hunter AP/Stamina: 4,145/17,073
Pet AP/Stamina: 2,014/13,076 (2/2 Wild Hunt) Increases the contribution your pet gets from your Attack Power by 40%.

PTR 3.1.0 Build 9658 (WILD HUNT NERF)

Hunter AP/Stamina: 4,145/17,073
Pet AP/Stamina: 1,823/13,076 (2/2 Wild Hunt) **NEW:Increases the contribution your pet gets from your Attack Power by 20%.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss (over Old PTR 1) of: 1,549 pet AP & 2,302 pet HP

Gain (over Current Live) of: 192 pet AP and 1,874 pet Health Points.

EDITED TO REFLECT THE PTR 3.1.0 Build 9658 NERF TO WILD HUNT
Thank God we have the modify option, I can hardly keep up with Blizzard's nerfs to Beast Mastery

[Sturmbringe]

[u]Why Beast Mastery does not scale well with gear compared to Survival
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beast Mastery really lacks any talents that scale with gear, as what really most of our talents do is just upgrade the pet's damage and critical strike chance. The only talent we do have that scales with gear, is Careful Aim in the Marksmanship tree, which converts Intellect to AP in a ratio of 1:1 (if you invest three points in it).

Compare this with Survival, and you will see where the problem lies.

Survival has got FIVE (5) different scaling talents:

1. Survivalist Rank 5: Increases your Stamina by 10%. (This is important because Stamina gets converted to AP through Hunter vs Wild).

2. Hunter vs Wild (AP Scaling): Increases you and your pet's attack power and ranged attack power equal to 30% of your total Stamina (3/3).

3. Lightning Reflexes Rank 5: Increases your Agility by 15%.

4. Expose Weakness Rank 3: Your ranged criticals have a 100% chance to grant you Expose Weakness. Expose Weakness increases your attack power by 25% of your Agility for 7 sec.

5. Master Tactician Rank 5: Your successful ranged attacks have a 10% chance to increase your critical strike chance with all attacks by 10% for 8 sec.

Survival Hunters also get 3/3 Careful Aim:

6. Careful Aim Rank 3: Increases your ranged attack power by an amount equal to 100% of your total Intellect.

As you can see now, the WHOLE Survival Tree is built around scaling. They scale exceedingly well with gear as well as with raid buffs. This is why a simple respec and reglyph from Beast Mastery to Survival with my current gear, would net me a huge DPS increase. Perhaps 1 to 1.5k more burst DPS than my current burst DPS and about 800 sustained DPS. This is actually and I underline, BAD GAME DESIGN and isn't supposed to be happening in a well-designed game. This fact shows exactly how well designed is the Survival tree and how disadvantaged is the Beast Mastery tree for end-game raiding.

This whole affair with "Spec-Survival-And-Instantly-Gain-1k-DPS" reminds me of the World of Roguecraft fan movie, wherein the protagonist's skill had increased by 300% just by pressing the "create Rogue" button back in Vanilla.

Now, to repeat what I said before, a crucial problem with Beast Mastery is that the whole tree does not have NOT A SINGLE ONE scaling DPS talent. What the tree does have, is FLAT damage increase talents, which explains why Beast Mastery does well in lower gear levels but falls flat on its face in end game gear levels.

------------------------>In Xumio's own words from the US Forums (Author of the Survival Raiding Guide at the US Forums):

Xumio

I don't think you've adequately tested BM vs Surv with equally geared and SKILLED hunter. Hitting the dummy one test w/o changing gems, enchants, glyphs, etc will not yield any useful results. The point remains that potential max dps of Survival is ~800-1000 higher than BM right now. SKILLED and INTELLIGENT hunters have acknowledged the facts and numerical proof and that is why are not raiding BM.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...43291846&sid=1

[Sturmbringe]

[u]Why Beast Masters do not benefit from WotlK haste-laden gear as much as other specs do:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Like I have already stated, and I do so a second time, Beast Masters do not in fact benefit from haste as much as other Hunter specs do, due to the fact that our Steady Shot is already soft haste-capped through 5/5 Serpent's Swiftness.

The only thing that haste benefits Beast Masters is the speed of our auto shot, a very minor, even insignificant upgrade. This because, apart from the fact that Beast Masters come with Steady Shot already haste capped "out of the box" through 5/5 Serpent Swiftness to 1.5 second cast time, we also tend to have way too much haste through gear.

For example, I already have 29.21% Haste, making my 2.80 sec bow fire every 1.86 seconds. 20% through serpent swiftness and 9.21% haste through gear. Now, like I said before, the only benefit we get out of all this haste, is to our auto-shot, our white damage in other words, as Steady Shot is hard-capped to 1.5 second, and Arcane Shot is instant.

Also, like I have mentioned above, we get substantially less benefit out of every single stat in the game apart from intellect, due to our complete lack of scaling talents. (See the difference between Survival Spec Scaling and Beast Mastery Spec scaling outlined above).

Therefore, what for Survival Hunters would have been a huge benefit through gear upgrades, because they have six different scaling talents, for us is actually a very minor upgrade because we only have one (Careful Aim, which is not even in the Beast Mastery tree). This is what I mean when I say that Beast Mastery does NOT Scale with gear.

[Applejuice]

Disillusioned BM Hunter, thinking he's the one doing DPS rather than his pet. Learn the truth, you're the pet of an NPC, history has shown us that pets don't scale well, therefore you won't scale well.

[Sturmbringe]

Frequently Asked Question (FAQ):
-----------------------------------

Could have sworn I saw screens of 7.2k dps on a BM hunter in the PTR.

In the latest PTR build (the build currently live on the PTR), Beast Mastery got two (2) significant nerfs. Then, in the March 7th PTR, Wild Hunt was nerfed yet again.:

a. Ferocity Pets damage bonus was lowered by 5% down from 10%.

b. All pets' AP was lowered by 1,400-2000 less AP, depending on the Beast Master's AP.

I don't think that 7.2k DPS is possible for a Beast Master even on the old PTR. Screenies I saw from the old PTR had Beast Masters doing abt 6k DPS, with abt 3.3k coming from the pet.

LIVE:

Hunter AP/Stamina: 4,145/17,073
Pet AP/Stamina: 1,631/11,202

Old PTR 1:

Hunter AP/Stamina: 4,145/17,073
Pet AP/Stamina: 3,372/15,378 (2/2 Wild Hunt)

Old PTR 2 (HOTFIX TO BUGGED WILD HUNT):

Hunter AP/Stamina: 4,145/17,073
Pet AP/Stamina: 2,014/13,076 (2/2 Wild Hunt) Increases the contribution your pet gets from your Attack Power by 40%.

PTR 3.1.0 Build 9658 (WILD HUNT NERF)

Hunter AP/Stamina: 4,145/17,073
Pet AP/Stamina: 1,823/13,076 (2/2 Wild Hunt) **NEW:Increases the contribution your pet gets from your Attack Power by 20%.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss (over Old PTR 1) of: 1,549 pet AP & 2,302 pet HP

Gain (over Current Live) of: 192 pet AP and 1,874 pet Health Points.

EDITED TO REFLECT THE PTR 3.1.0 Build 9658 NERF TO WILD HUNT

Thank God we have the modify option, I can hardly keep up with Blizzard's nerfs to Beast Mastery

[Intwine]

blaat!

To clear 2 things up.

If you, with that gear, try to compete with hunterd that are all BiS you cannot win, ever!!
Then you try to compete with them beeing BM, not gonna happen.
Not that your gear sucks, it's good gear but not comparable to all BiS gear

BM got nerfed to shit, then buffed a little a patch later and on the PTR they were gods again due to a failing talent that did what it had to do and them some.
If they fixed it i don't know (i guess they did), and basicly i don't care because PTR is just that, a public TEST realm.

It prevents me from coming to forums and making multiple part posts just like yours.

Blizz is aiming for all 3 specs to be kind off equal, and when 3.1 comes around to live ill see how that worked out, one thing ill never be is a BM hunter though.

[Sturmbringe]

To clear 2 things up.

If you, with that gear, try to compete with hunterd that are all BiS you cannot win, ever!!
Then you try to compete with them beeing BM, not gonna happen.
Not that your gear sucks, it's good gear but not comparable to all BiS gear

BM got nerfed to shit, then buffed a little a patch later and on the PTR they were gods again due to a failing talent that did what it had to do and them some.
If they fixed it i don't know (i guess they did), and basicly i don't care because PTR is just that, a public TEST realm.

It prevents me from coming to forums and making multiple part posts just like yours.

Blizz is aiming for all 3 specs to be kind off equal, and when 3.1 comes around to live ill see how that worked out, one thing ill never be is a BM hunter though.

The problem is that Beast Mastery loses the DPS race to:

a. Most Hybrids with comparable gear.
b. All pures with comparable gear.
c. Survival and Marksmen with comparable gear.

See the meters I posted. I even lost to Hybrids with comparable gear. Now, the problem here is, that were I to respec and reglyph to Survival I would *instantly* do abt 800 more sustained DPS and abt 1-1.5k more burst DPS.

Another problem with Beast Mastery is that it does not scale well with gear. Therefore, gear upgrades do not yield as much benefit as they do for Survivalist specc'd Hunters. See my post above.

Edit: Also, I don't believe that Blizzard or GC are ever going to bother with the BM tree again. GC said that they are "satisfied" with BM as it is now. I don't think there's any reason to be satisified with BM's current raid performance, which is why I wrote this thread.

[Syfo]

2. Patchwerk 25
-----------------------

1. Destro Warlock 5, 997
2. Frostfire Mage 5,758
3. TG Warr 5,642
4. Surv Hunter 5,557
5. Death Knight 5,499
6. Frostfire Mage 4,899
7. Balance Druid 4,704
8. TG Warr 4,466
9. Enh Shaman 4,342
10. Mut Rogue 4,142
11. Frostfire Mage 4,099
12. Ret Paladin 3,936
13. **Beast Mastery Hunter 3,977
14. Death Knight 3,973
15. Enh Shaman 3,930
16. Death Knight 2,342 (woefully undergeared)

Hm, Our BM (<Logout> Darksorrow) was doing about 4.5k on patch ,and i think its possible to do much more,cos hes not using abilities manually which decreases his dps so dramatically.Hes simply using only sting,macro,and BW. (3 buttons at all).

/cast Kill Shot(Rank 3)
/castsequence reset=5 Arcane Shot(Rank 11), Steady Shot(Rank 4), Steady Shot(Rank 4), Steady Shot(Rank 4), Steady Shot(Rank 4)

So im really surprised how u can be so low positioned,if u do all right.

[Intwine]

The problem is that Beast Mastery loses the DPS race to:

a. Most Hybrids with comparable gear.
b. All pures with comparable gear.
c. Survival and Marksmen with comparable gear.

See the meters I posted. I even lost to Hybrids with comparable gear. Now, the problem here is, that were I to respec and reglyph to Survival I would *instantly* do abt 800 more sustained DPS and abt 1-1.5k more burst DPS.

Another problem with Beast Mastery is that it does not scale well with gear. Therefore, gear upgrades do not yield as much benefit as they do for Survivalist specc'd Hunters. See my post above.

Edit: Also, I don't believe that Blizzard or GC are ever going to bother with the BM tree again. GC said that they are "satisfied" with BM as it is now. I don't think there's any reason to be satisified with BM's current raid performance, which is why I wrote this thread.

Why the obsession with Hybrids? they are specced for DPS, they are geared as dps and they do DPS, and you in your inferior (calling as it is atm) spec with decent gear are beaten by them, shit happens i get beaten by hybrids in BIS gear now and then to and tbh i <3 it.

And now you are in the same boat most MM and SV hunters were before the 3.0.whatever patch and for 99% of the time in tBC.
If they had respecced and reglyphed (in LK) and c&p'ed the macro from somewere they would instantly do 1500 dps more (well tbh their pet would do 1500dps more, there own dps would drop a little)

If you <3 playing BM then suck it up for the moment, if you are one of those "i want to contribute the best i can to my raid" kinda people they suckit up and respec SV (although with current content i cant see why you want to min/max your performance unless you are trying/doing 10man OS+3D).
You cant have both atm, you had both for a whole xpac, you had both untill the nerfbat came down hard on you BM hunters and maybe, just maybe you can have a little back when 3.1 comes and Blizz gets their act togehter, if not happy respeccing/rerolling/quittinig.

Making a long post filled with what ever only gets you the following reaction:

TL;DR

[Sturmbringe]

Hm, Our BM (<Logout> Darksorrow) was doing about 4.5k on patch ,and i think its possible to do much more,cos hes not using abilities manually which decreases his dps so dramatically.Hes simply using only sting,macro,and BW. (3 buttons at all).

/cast Kill Shot(Rank 3)
/castsequence reset=5 Arcane Shot(Rank 11), Steady Shot(Rank 4), Steady Shot(Rank 4), Steady Shot(Rank 4), Steady Shot(Rank 4)

So im really surprised how u can be so low positioned,if u do all right.

Mate, there is no level 80 Hunter with the name "Logout" neither in the Euro (English) nor in the US realms. Post a screenie to his wws or a link to his gear, if it exists, and I will tell you why he did 4.5k on Patch.




[/quote]

[Maul]

This is my opinion, hate it if you like, agree with me if you do.


If you're in a top raiding guild: Best specc > the specc you think is most fun to play.


Casual raiding guild: the specc you think is most fun to play > Best specc.



on another note, the PTR isn't over, and I do hope they balance the speccs a bit more.



edit: oh, and if you're unsatisfied with your BM dps, maybe your one button macro is broke (damn I'm glad to get rid of that macro, SV ftw :P

[heartless8604]

I created an account specifically just to reply to this.


BM is not failing your failing. You can't possibly hope to be outdpsing people in best in slot gear when you have like 0 pieces of best in slot.

Your not being beaten by people in better specs your being beaten by people in better gear. They out gear you. The same thing happened in vanilla wow and tbc. Melee based classes scale very very well in better gear and some classes do not. The same classes that were top at the end of vanilla is the same classes that were top at the end of tbc and the same classes that will be top at the end of wrath. Casters will never be top. Top will still go to rogues and surv hunter. I outdpsd every single BM hunter at 70 in BT in a survival build then before 3.0

Pets do not scale. They improve with the bonus pet talents of better scaling but it doesn't fix everything. Wait till you get full best in slot before making huge posts about how BM is broken to hell and back. Besides nothing is stoping you from respecing. I was never BM because it's the single most boring spec to play in the entire game.

[Sturmbringe]

I created an account specifically just to reply to this.


BM is not failing your failing. You can't possibly hope to be outdpsing people in best in slot gear when you have like 0 pieces of best in slot.

Your not being beaten by people in better specs your being beaten by people in better gear. They out gear you. The same thing happened in vanilla wow and tbc. Melee based classes scale very very well in better gear and some classes do not. The same classes that were top at the end of vanilla is the same classes that were top at the end of tbc and the same classes that will be top at the end of wrath. Casters will never be top. Top will still go to rogues and surv hunter. I outdpsd every single BM hunter at 70 in BT in a survival build then before 3.0

Pets do not scale. They improve with the bonus pet talents of better scaling but it doesn't fix everything. Wait till you get full best in slot before making huge posts about how BM is broken to hell and back. Besides nothing is stoping you from respecing. I was never BM because it's the single most boring spec to play in the entire game.

Please read the OP again.

QUOTE
The problem is that Beast Mastery loses the DPS race to:

a. Most Hybrids with comparable gear.
b. All pures with comparable gear.
c. Survival and Marksmen with comparable gear.
UNQUOTE

Thanks

[heartless8604]

Please read the OP again.

QUOTE
The problem is that Beast Mastery loses the DPS race to:

a. Most Hybrids with comparable gear.
b. All pures with comparable gear.
c. Survival and Marksmen with comparable gear.
UNQUOTE

Thanks

Point of my post of pea brain sized nelf hunter:

Don't go saying BM in general is broken when your comparing your dps to people with better gear.


You do not have best in slot. You have far from best in slot gear. You can't compete with people that do. Yes pet scaling sucks. It's not the spec. The spec fine. It's pets in general do not scale that well.

For a BM hunter the pet is most of your dps. You are the pet to him.

[Sturmbringe]

Point of my post of pea brain sized nelf hunter:

Don't go saying BM in general is broken when your comparing your dps to people with better gear.


You do not have best in slot. You have far from best in slot gear. You can't compete with people that do. Yes pet scaling sucks. It's not the spec. The spec fine. It's pets in general do not scale that well.

For a BM hunter the pet is most of your dps. You are the pet to him.

Please read the OP again.

QUOTE
The problem is that Beast Mastery loses the DPS race to:

a. Most Hybrids with comparable gear.
b. All pures with comparable gear.
c. Survival and Marksmen with comparable gear.
UNQUOTE

Thanks

[heartless8604]

Please read the OP again.

QUOTE
The problem is that Beast Mastery loses the DPS race to:

a. Most Hybrids with comparable gear.
b. All pures with comparable gear.
c. Survival and Marksmen with comparable gear.
UNQUOTE

Thanks

Wow why are you so attached to BM? Do you have the mental capacity of a pea and can't understand how to press more then a macro?

If your in a so called top end raiding guild then you would know to spec top end specs. Sure arms warriors provide something to the raid but how many top end raiding guilds take arms warriors? None. Go spec into survival or arms. They scale better then BM does. Even in TBC BM wasn't powerful because your pet hit harder then other specs. It was the speed increase talent and the beast within increasing your damage that made it better.


Face it BM is a solo spec now. Exotic pets don't do enough damage. They should be outdpsing regular pets by a wide amount.

[Maul]

No need to be insulting when it was YOU who misunderstood him heartless8604.

[Sturmbringe]

Wow why are you so attached to BM? Do you have the mental capacity of a pea and can't understand how to press more then a macro?

I love BM. I enjoy seeing my pet do quite some damage. Actually, it isn't just me who thinks that way but a substantial chunk of the Hunter player base also enjoys raiding as a Beast Master.

If your in a so called top end raiding guild then you would know to spec top end specs. Sure arms warriors provide something to the raid but how many top end raiding guilds take arms warriors? None. Go spec into survival or arms. They scale better then BM does. Even in TBC BM wasn't powerful because your pet hit harder then other specs. It was the speed increase talent and the beast within increasing your damage that made it better.

Hunters are a pure DPS class. Ideally, all Hunter specs should do comparable damage. Top end spec should mean at most 100 DPS more on the spreadsheet, not 800 DPS more.
Survival has become like the old fan movie "World of Roguecraft", wherein you spec it, and your skill goes up by "300%" as in World of Roguecraft.

The thing is, that Hunters are a pure class, and every tree ought to do comparable DPS. I am fine with Surv doing at most 100 sustained DPS over BM, but 800 sustained DPS over Beast Mastery with the same gear is just plain wrong and also bad game design.

Face it BM is a solo spec now. Exotic pets don't do enough damage. They should be outdpsing regular pets by a wide amount.

I agree with you here, fully. There was a thread at the US Damage Dealing forums listing all the BM concerns with exotic pets, especially Devilsaur. Let's see some:

a. Hit box
b. Pet size
c. Issue wherein the pet would remain at an unreasonable distance away from their current target, and would stop attacking after it had gained the Ferocious Bite buff.
d. Annoying sound
e. Issue wherein the pet would pull trash mobs due to the fact that it remained at an unreasonable distance away from the mob which it was attacking.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen any reply from GC on this subject, yet.

[Sturmbringe]

Another issue is I think, is the affinity that some people feel about pets or animals in general, and consequently the bond that ties them to their pets in game even if they are in actuality, mere pixels, and that part of the Hunter player base who would rather play an Archer and would not have anything to do with pets in general. The reason I write this, is because I was asked "why are you so attached to BM".

This stems I think, from the fact that back in Vanilla, apart from the fact that Hunters were added later in the beta with a patch, Blizzard decided to merge the "Archer" and the "Beast Master" in one class.

In short terms, there are some people who love the BM spec because they like seeing their pet as being a reasonable part of the DPS. Others again, would rather play an Archer than a Beast Master. The thing is though, that the Beast Master aspect of the class should be just as viable raid-wise as the Archer aspect of the class or the Trap Master/Survivalist aspect of the class.