[Discussion] Best 3v3 combo for ret paladin

[Deyman]

Hi champs!
As we all know that 3v3 will be the arena bracket that we will play in to achive the best pvp stuff in the game. There has been lots of talk of the "fotm 3v3" teams i.e RMP or a Cleave team.
But what is the best setup for a retribution paladin?
Some one said to me: R-shaman/Warr/retadin. But he didn't give any good reasons why that would be the best combo.
Every class has something to bring in a arena game.
Here is a oppritunity to clear eachothers minds and together come up with the BEST combo.

Don't forget to mention WHY you think it is the best combo and what that combo can bring to a arena game that other combos can't.

Keep it clean and positive! =)

/discuss

[Baabinator]

MS war, and Resto shaman.

-MS effect (mortal strike)
-3 types of CC (incapacitate, hex, fear)
-Permaslow (hamstring, frost shock)
-Very heavy burst (Within Hammer of justice: Skillstorm, FS->LvB->NS->LB, Wings/etcetcetc)
-Synergy (SoE totem, WF totem, BoK, Battle Shout)
-Spell deflections (Grounding totem, spell reflect, bubble)
-Healer protection (physical-bubble, paladin's ability to heal when needed, sacred shield, earth shield, ghost wolf, intervene etc etc etc)

Should I go on?

[Deyman]

MS war, and Resto shaman.

-MS effect (mortal strike)
-3 types of CC (incapacitate, hex, fear)
-Permaslow (hamstring, frost shock)
-Very heavy burst (Within Hammer of justice: Skillstorm, FS->LvB->NS->LB, Wings/etcetcetc)
-Synergy (SoE totem, WF totem, BoK, Battle Shout)
-Spell deflections (Grounding totem, spell reflect, bubble)
-Healer protection (physical-bubble, paladin's ability to heal when needed, sacred shield, earth shield, ghost wolf, intervene etc etc etc)

Should I go on?

Yes please! ;D

What would the strategy look like? Who uses the 1st CC, what CC follows up next?
When to pop heroism/Bloodlust?
Lets say you are facing a RMP with that combo, what would you do? Who to kill 1st? And who would you CC

[Sartecho]

I have some friends who are running that comp, only with a resto druid instead of a shaman. They have been exceptionally successful with it this season. Depending on how the shaman buffs come out, Warrior/Paladin/Druid may well be just as strong as Warrior/Paladin/Druid. Both are excellent choices IMO. At one time I seriously considered Hunters to be an excellent choice in place of the Warrior on those teams. If class balance shifts a bit, that could again become a great option. MS effect plus traps and mana drains would be nice.

[Sartecho]

Yes please! ;D

What would the strategy look like? Who uses the 1st CC, what CC follows up next?
When to pop heroism/Bloodlust?
Lets say you are facing a RMP with that combo, what would you do? Who to kill 1st? And who would you CC

If I was running Warrior/Paladin/Shaman, I'd pick the squishiest DPS to go after first. I don't like to go after mages because they're too slippery. I don't like warriors because they're too hard to kill when they go defensive. Rogues are always first choice if you can get on them because ignoring them is suicide. Warlocks are often a good choice. On cleave teams the DK is a good choice.

I open with a Repentance on the other team's healer. Both you and the warrior pour everything you have into your target. As the Repentance is wearing off, have your shaman follow it up with a Hex. Since Hex is cast, it's nice for the shaman to have a Repented target to use it on. Be ready to HoP and/or Hand of Sacrifice whoever on your team gets focused. Your healer will love you if you are quick with those on him. Divine Sacrifice and Sacred Shield can be key as well. Remember that you're a support class, there to help your opponents both kill and survive. Knowing when to help with which is important.

A well-timed warrior fear as you're attempting to finish off your target can make all the difference sometimes. Once the first target is down, it's smooth sailing. Be sure that your warrior knows how to go defensive and spell reflect well. If he doesn't, he'll die quickly. If he's good at that, he'll be extremely difficult to kill.

**Edit: RMP is one of the few times I might CC someone other than the healer. Depending on the situation, I might Repentance the mage while we're on the rogue. I don't need that mage lighting everyone up and sheeping during those crucial moments when I'm trying to get the rogue down. That mage can make it impossible to stay on the rogue. Lose track of the rogue and you may well lose the match. Besides, if you can get a stun on the rogue and you have both you and a warrior beating on him, it won't matter what the other team's healer is doing.

[Deyman]

If I was running Warrior/Paladin/Shaman, I'd pick the squishiest DPS to go after first. I don't like to go after mages because they're too slippery. I don't like warriors because they're too hard to kill when they go defensive. Rogues are always first choice if you can get on them because ignoring them is suicide. Warlocks are often a good choice. On cleave teams the DK is a good choice.

I open with a Repentance on the other team's healer. Both you and the warrior pour everything you have into your target. As the Repentance is wearing off, have your shaman follow it up with a Hex. Since Hex is cast, it's nice for the shaman to have a Repented target to use it on. Be ready to HoP and/or Hand of Sacrifice whoever on your team gets focused. Your healer will love you if you are quick with those on him. Divine Sacrifice and Sacred Shield can be key as well. Remember that you're a support class, there to help your opponents both kill and survive. Knowing when to help with which is important.

A well-timed warrior fear as you're attempting to finish off your target can make all the difference sometimes. Once the first target is down, it's smooth sailing. Be sure that your warrior knows how to go defensive and spell reflect well. If he doesn't, he'll die quickly. If he's good at that, he'll be extremely difficult to kill.

**Edit: RMP is one of the few times I might CC someone other than the healer. Depending on the situation, I might Repentance the mage while we're on the rogue. I don't need that mage lighting everyone up and sheeping during those crucial moments when I'm trying to get the rogue down. That mage can make it impossible to stay on the rogue. Lose track of the rogue and you may well lose the match. Besides, if you can get a stun on the rogue and you have both you and a warrior beating on him, it won't matter what the other team's healer is doing.

You make some very good points there Sartecho. Looks like you thought this over a bit, eh? I dont know a lot about warriors, all I know is that when I duel one I always win. But as we know... wow is a game full of pro's and nabs. How do you find a good R-shaman and a good Arms warrior? Last time I was with this warrior and he did like 1k dps on a lvl70 dummy in SW >_> And then there was a R-shaman once that was so squishy he died faster then any of us (even tho i used my pala moves he manages to die) While I've seen some R-shamans that are impossible to kill.
/2 LF R-shaman and arms warrior to make 3v3 team! :P

Is that it? Everyone just simply agrees that R-shaman/MSwarr/retadin IS the BEST combo that ret palas will choose? Hehe, I was looking for someone who would say some different combo and then someone would be against that combo and defend the oppinion that S/W/P is better.

[Baabinator]

Yes please! ;D

What would the strategy look like? Who uses the 1st CC, what CC follows up next?
When to pop heroism/Bloodlust?
Lets say you are facing a RMP with that combo, what would you do? Who to kill 1st? And who would you CC

Well okay :P,

I would try to find the mage or rogue (whichever you find first) and devoid him of all his buffs (read: PURGE SPAM), then try to CC the priest or put heavy pressure on the rogue without eating too many CC's.

Attempt to dispel as much as possible before the actual *fight* begins, try to prevent the shaman from standing in the open and eating CC's while being mana burned. Just Purge and pillarhump.

If you choose to CC the rogue: Be aware he will have a trinket and mages can dispel curses, so don't try to hex it. Repentance won't work either since the priest can dispel it. Instead try to use your intimidating shout (and try to catch a different teammate with it as well, preferably the priest). Make sure he doesn't have a fear ward on him!!
1: If he chooses to trinket the fear you've just almost won the match. Hex the mage, Repentance the priest. Stun the rogue, pop wings, make the shaman add a FS->LvB, NS->LB (make sure CloS isn't active when trying) Unleash the WTFLOLstorm from the warrior on the rogue and he's pretty much dead.

-If mage iceblocks/trinkets out of the repentance, have your warrior charge up to him and try to lock him down by spellreflecting polymorphs (he WILL try to polymorph), if you catch him and he polymorphs himself, stay in prot stance and intervene back to your paladin and dismantle the rogue, which would almost be dead by now. Have him put Rend, mortal strike, and hamstring back on the rogue.

-If priest trinkets he will try to burst-heal the rogue back to full. Be aware of this, and have your shaman stand near the paladin and put up a tremor totem. Now have your paladin chasing down the priest and your warrior trying to tear down the last inches of the rogue. If the rogue dies before anyone gets blinded, you've basically won the match.

-If both the mage AND the priest trinket. Have your warrior charging/intercepting and perma-slowing the priest and interrupting heals whenever possible, be aware: THE MAGE WILL TRY TO POLYMORPH YOU (it's not THAT bad, since the paladin can cleanse it but be aware that he can't cleanse when he's eating blinds or polymorphs), also stay a HEALTHY (more then 20~+!!) yards away from the rogue, since he will try to blind you as well. So wear a shield and stay in combat/def stance. No one should be near the priest except the warrior.

The paladin should basically try to kill the rogue asap. If the stun ended use HAND OF SACRIFICE on your shaman ASAP, because the paladin is going to get blinded or polymorphed. If you eat blind and you have Hand of sacrifice on yourself, let the shaman take a little bit of damage (maybe even in the form of a SW:Pain from the opposing priest), this will then take you out of blind. The mage will then most likely attempt to polymorph your shaman, so use grounding totem or keep cleanse close to him. It will be tricky if they both trinket, so i haven't got a very clear explanation for it.


2: If he stays put and eats the intimidating shout:

-I would attempt to CC (repentance) the priest and try to lock down and kill the mage. If he's at around 35~~% health you should hex him. Hex basically silences and disarms the target, making him unable to iceblock (correct me if wrong) and an execute+hammer of wrath should finish him off really quickly then.

3: If THEY open and sap your shaman:

-Expect a polymorph on the paladin really soon, have your warrior enter def stance (a warrior caught in a stunchain in zerk/cmbt stance is a dead one). The warrior should be able to survive the first wave of stuns/casts with shield wall / block. When the polymorph from the paladin is about to fade away the warrior should quickly intercept / charge the mage BY ALL MEANS (also means using trinket) If he succeeds in polymorphing either the shaman or the paladin again you've got a problem.

Prepare for a blind (since your warrior should take deal with the polymorph!) after the sap on the shaman, and have him trinket out of it. Then pop heroism, stun the rogue, and fear the mage (and possible priest) within range. Then try to nuke it down with as much as possible and have your shaman hex the priest. If hex is broken prematurally keep a repentance ready on his butt!

I don't have a PWS 3v3, and i hope this helps in any sort of way. I'm tired now

[Sartecho]

You make some very good points there Sartecho. Looks like you thought this over a bit, eh?

I've been running resto shaman/ret in 2's for a season and a half (over 1,100 matches this season alone) and Warrior/Ret/Priest in 3's so I've more or less experienced all of the abilities that the comp in question would have available. Before I ran shaman/ret in 2's, I did resto druid/ret so I've seen a lot of druid heals too.

I'm sure there are some other great comps out there and I know that Blizz wants us to back off from the cleave stuff a bit so the balance is likely to shift some with the changes in 3.2. The biggest key is that you need to keep in mind your role as a support class. It wasn't like that in S5, but it sure is now. Find another DPS that can be the star of your team. Someone else needs to apply the healing debuff and be the main DPS. Your job is to make sure that no one from your team dies while also helping to DPS and CC a bit when possible. When I say that you want to be sure that you keep anyone from dying, this is very rarely with healing. An occasional flash heal from an Art of War proc is smart, but it's more about using cooldowns to help eat some of the other team's burst.

Finding a good teammate is tough, especially since most hardcore PVP guys are arrogant assholes. When I have found good teammates, it has often been through being a part of a high-end raiding guild. People who are in the best raiding guilds generally know the ins and outs of their toons. Each hardcore raiding guild has at least a handful of PVP guys. If you are successful with both raiding and PVP, you'll pair up with some like-minded people pretty quickly.

[Deyman]

Baabinator, your "guide" on PWS vs RMP is awesome
If I ever get a PWS im going to tell them to check this thread

[Baabinator]

Baabinator, your "guide" on PWS vs RMP is awesome
If I ever get a PWS im going to tell them to check this thread

Not a problem at all.

I just happen to know every class/spec and there capabilities, i just made assumptions on the best possible strategies.

Just know this: PVP is NEVER EVER the same. It changes rapidly, and just a small thing could set the fight on a whole different track.

[Mograine]

I didn't read the whole page of the thread so I have no idea if anyones suggested this comp. But, I'd go with Ret/Arms Warr/Resto Dr00d.

Why? Because Cleaves pr0

[Ranishka]

I didn't read the whole page of the thread so I have no idea if anyones suggested this comp. But, I'd go with Ret/Arms Warr/Resto Dr00d.

Why? Because Cleaves pr0

I suggest you don't.

[Omy]

Warr/ret/shaman doesn't work anywhere near as well as it did in BC.

-I would attempt to CC (repentance) the priest and try to lock down and kill the mage. If he's at around 35~~% health you should hex him. Hex basically silences and disarms the target, making him unable to iceblock (correct me if wrong)

You're wrong. =( Iceblock and bubble usage are only stopped by interrupts on the frost or holy trees. Hex does nothing.
Hex is also neither a silence or a disarm. If it was one of the two (or both) it still wouldn't prevent an iceblock.

[Kheldar]

ret/rogue/disc priest is the strongest, ret/war/shaman is fairly dated and does not work quite so well anymore against opponents who can play

[Aize]

sham/unholydk/ret imo. even with no MS on the team, druids are the only healers that can survive hoj/stragulate/arcanetorrent/ghoulstun/mindfreeze/purgespam.

[Dahlvash]

in my experiance, retadins will go well with rogues, simply because of the cc, eg. ret pops wings, rogue pops tricks of the trade on the ret, then the ret enjoys the wings damage buff+tricks of the trade damage buff. Also youd have damage reduce in the form of wound poison, lots of cc with stuns, repentance, blind, sap etc.
Also, defencivley you have bubble, physical bubble, HoS, HoF. While the rogue also has evasion, CoS, stuns, Vanish blind etc.
So for a healer, tough choice imo, though id say Disc Priest, simp,ly for the extra aoe cc and damage reduce+speed buffs fow when your being kited.

Personally as a prot-holy, im looking forward to prot-holy, arms warr, retorDK

[Spectrus]

http://www.wowarmory.com/team-info.x...+our+turn+baby

??

[Dahlvash]

http://www.wowarmory.com/team-info.x...+our+turn+baby

??

i smell wintrade tbh

[Ranishka]

i smell wintrade tbh

I just think that's the scent of skill.

[Dahlvash]

im not sure, it may well be but their track record dosen't point to a 3K rated team, but gz to them if its legit