Haste Haste Haste!

[Dulzara]

So, in the olden days of yore, I thought that crit was far more important than haste for a Warlock. I stacked crit, I stacked SP, I stacked hit, and completely ignored Haste until recently. So, I've got a question: How much haste should I be attempting to have? Currently, it is rather poor, for my stats are as followed;

Spell Power + Fel Armor = 2300 or so. (Unbuffed is 2021)
Hit Rating: 403 (15.36%). I am Alliance, so I generally have a Draenei to help out a bit with the hit, I think that should be enough without the Supression talent? :/
Crit Chance: 24.44% unbuffed. (In a PuG 25 man Ony, I rose to about 33% crit chance, so. :/ )
Haste: A measely 189 (5.76%)

I do know that my haste needs to be increased, for at least what I've seen, but how much should I be upping it to? How much is too much haste?

Here's my armory link, go easy on me, I'm a bit of a scrub. :/
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ard&n=Vigarath

P.S: I really need to get that stupid Abyssal Rune to replace my damn Sundial. >:

[Protokol]

yo cant realy have too much haste at your point. Max haste is when you hit the GCD.
So, you need somewhere around 600. Get all the gear you can with haste instead of crit thats what you should aim for.

[Dulzara]

So, can I be assured that when I start dropping things like crit or SP (hopefully not hit, I needs me my hit) that the increase of haste should make up for it? I shouldn't start dropping DPS just be removing some of the things, correct?

[Peepo]

do not drop hit or spellpower for haste... as you get better gear, you'll get more haste... just choose haste/crit over spirit gear...

[gherkin]

Spell Power is king, but besides gems and enchants there isn't an easy way to increase this. The hard upper limit is determined by the level of content you are in.

Haste, Crit, and Spirit are a different matter. Haste is what you go for here, and there is no upper limit that you can achieve by stacking it. Even if all 14 slots had 100 Haste Rating, thats still 1400 (43%) with the cap being somewhere close to 57%, but only for 40 seconds during heroism/bloodlust.

Anyways, gem SP, but if you have a choice between Haste and Spirit and Crit, choose the one with Haste

[TorcidaThrall]

One thing I will mention is to replace your SP/Crit gems with S/Haste. But that is personal preference. I say this mainly because Crit needs roughly 48 crit rating for 1% making 8 Crit rating seem marginal.

Granted, you might only replace it with 8 haste rating, but haste only takes, i believe, roughly 32 rating to achieve 1%

[scandore8472]

do not drop hit or spellpower for haste... as you get better gear, you'll get more haste... just choose haste/crit over spirit gear...

That all depends on how much haste he gains and how much SP he loses because haste and SP are about the same, SP is better, but it's not by much.

[Peepo]

That all depends on how much haste he gains and how much SP he loses because haste and SP are about the same, SP is better, but it's not by much.

going to have to respectfully disagree here... unless it's some uber amount of haste, like 590 haste vs. a 100 spell power with trinkets... always choose spell power...

to OP... if you haven't already, maybe switch firestone for spellstone...

[Pannetje]

As an alliance warlock, you only need 10% hit if you have suppression 3/3
because you will get a draenei in your group most likely
and you will probably have a boomkin or Spriest in the group who give a 3% increased hitchance to the target,
that's 17-3-3-1 = 10%.
for your gems, gem it like this
red: Runed (pure spellpower)
yellow: Reckless (SP/haste
blueurified (SP/spirit)
only gem the matching color if you like the socket bonus, or need the gem for your meta.
also change your meta to Chaotic skyflare diamond. (21crit/3%increased crit dmg) I know you shouldnt gem for crit but this meta is the best. every lock uses it.

Your talents are almost perfect. you should just remove Soulleech 3/3 and put them in Supression.
and try to get less gear with hitrating. this way your stats will be balanced and your dmg output will increase automaticly.

Spellpower > haste > crit > spirit.

[pieki]

Your talents are almost perfect. you should just remove Soulleech 3/3 and put them in Supression.
and try to get less gear with hitrating.

No.


and stat prio i say go for SP > Haste > Spirit > Crit Even thou crit is better then spirit on 1:1 ratio spirit do come in bigger amounts.

had a big nice post but mmo kapwned it :<<

[zuxia]

Balance...especially between crit and haste due to boss fight setups.

[harky]

Balance? No. SP > Haste >/= Spirit > Crit. At most levels of gear Haste is almost twice as important as Crit and Spirit is either as good, or very slightly worse than Haste.

Edit: And god, don't drop Soul Leech unless you're retarded. I run a Suppression side-spec only for cases when I don't have a Boomkin/Shadow Priest to give me that 3% hit. In BiS gear 5/13/54+1 gets something like a tenth of one percent more DPS, but gives up any raid utility. Before that 13/58 does higher DPS and still has that utility. Utter fail.

[zuxia]

Balance? No. SP > Haste >/= Spirit > Crit. At most levels of gear Haste is almost twice as important as Crit and Spirit is either as good, or very slightly worse than Haste.

Only in simcraft...Reality is greater than theory...haven't seen one fight last 5min without having to move. Go recheck your sims at 75s or less..without BL...since most of time..you will be moving switching targets approx every 75s.

[keyrah]

Haste is more reliable, and most your crit comes from raid buffs.

Suppression for 3 points vs some mana regen when you should be life tapping every 40 sec = more slots to use spirit gear.

[harky]

Only in simcraft...Reality is greater than theory...haven't seen one fight last 5min without having to move. Go recheck your sims at 75s or less..without BL...since most of time..you will be moving switching targets approx every 75s.

Uh, no. You should have actually tried this type of test before suggesting it. Under these conditions I get this: SP - 1.45, Spi - .91, Hit - 1.41, Crit - .59, Haste - 1.72.

GG. Spirit is devalued due to fight length, the other numbers not so much. Haste is just flat out better than Crit. You can try to distort the test all you want, but it's not going to happen. By the way, saying not to include BL actually made it worse by the way. Crit is slightly better if BL is included. It's still about 40% worse than Spirit though. :

[zuxia]

Uh, no. You should have actually tried this type of test before suggesting it. Under these conditions I get this: SP - 1.45, Spi - .91, Hit - 1.41, Crit - .59, Haste - 1.72.

GG. Spirit is devalued due to fight length, the other numbers not so much. Haste is just flat out better than Crit. You can try to distort the test all you want, but it's not going to happen. By the way, saying not to include BL actually made it worse by the way. Crit is slightly better if BL is included. It's still about 40% worse than Spirit though. :

Actually it was already done and shown in another thread...so I don't know where you pulled your numbers from...guess you should have checked that one out first.


Edit: Was talking how much it is worth to you..what is your theoretical dps with you haste..decrease it, increase crit and then what is your dps.

[nocturnus]

Edit: And god, don't drop Soul Leech unless you're retarded. I run a Suppression side-spec only for cases when I don't have a Boomkin/Shadow Priest to give me that 3% hit.

So you're retarded if you follow simcraft's highest theoretical dps spec? Hate to brake it to ya, but that spec doesn't include improved soul leech. From 3.3 on, the imp SL spec will be slightly higher (less than 20dps) on tank-n-spank fights. How many of those will we encounter in Icecrown?

- Do not spec into imp SL, go for Suppression especially at your gear level.
- As for 'green' stats, SP is your most important stat, afterwards haste, then crit. You hardly ever need to chose between spirit and crit, as these stats often accompany eachother. Crit has to be considered as a bonus stat, rather than an aim.
- Most important tip: search the forums, these question have been asked many times before and the answers are there for the taking.

[harky]

Actually it was already done and shown in another thread...so I don't know where you pulled your numbers from...guess you should have checked that one out first.

Edit: Was talking how much it is worth to you..what is your theoretical dps with you haste..decrease it, increase crit and then what is your dps.

I just ran the test myself, the numbers came right from Simcraft. Where's your source? The best I can come up with is a .54 (lol) for crit, but down at .9 for Haste, but Spirit is still much better than Crit. If I run a non-poluted test with a 5 minute time but lots of movement and switching I come up with .5 for crit and .96 for haste. And no, adjusting scores for higher crit and lower haste only changes it to saying that haste is now even more important. Along with dropping it from 8796 to 8560. No thanks.

So you're retarded if you follow simcraft's highest theoretical dps spec? Hate to brake it to ya, but that spec doesn't include improved soul leech. From 3.3 on, the imp SL spec will be slightly higher (less than 20dps) on tank-n-spank fights. How many of those will we encounter in Icecrown?

You're retarded for going with a spec based on BiS gear which wins in 3.2.2 by only .01% dps and only does so because the BiS gear is low on hit. Now what's the worth of the replenishment buff on your raid? Oh and if you recheck the EJ simcraft thread you'll notice something fun; the 3.2.2 model once again shows 0/13/58 ahead. Funny, huh? :

[zuxia]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-warlock/haste-scale-factors!/

[harky]

Should probably practice with the links. You mean this, correct? If so then you should actually read it, it's a good post.

Here's the conclusion: On average, haste is still a better scaling stat, but there may be certain time frames where crit would benefit you more. If we are looking at total iterations of boss fights, haste still wins regardless of time, unless you know every boss time will fall within a specific crit centric time.

What he's really talking about is total boss time and finding very specific durations in which crit wins. So while a fight that lasts exactly 65 seconds would make crit win, haste would win if that same fight lasted 64, or 66 seconds.