Is Elitist Jerks wrong for a change? (Regarding Unholy DPS)

[darkenrahl]

mmm
1) you're using obliterate instead of ss and shitting out your disease as unholy... BAD
2) you're itemized poorly (haste it's not spectacular, neither haste..)
3) your gemming is poor as well :L (lol@blue gem in the helm.. use a nightmare tear)
don't take items just because ilvl is higher and prioritize a more "profitable" stats placement...
example..
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45550 >> your belt for your spec
just for reference, use this..
http://www.guildox.com/wr.asp?Cla=20...i3=0&i9=0&j8=0
and btw i hope that you were talking about 3k dps on the mannequin completely self-buffed... because my dk that is REALLY shitty geared as dps (and i mean shitty as hell, not even enchanted and so on) did 2970 dps last time i checked... :|

[Deleted]

Let me explain my situation to you: I get hundreds of whispers every day from people asking for advise about DPS, gearing, rotations and whatnot. About half of these mentioned FbN and argued against my advice because of what they read in the FbN thread. There's a reason I haven't posted on EJ before that FbN thread. I knew their rules were to strict for me to follow. I got fed up with people arguing against me based on FbN's wrong conclusions, so I posted. Shame I got banned before I was finished arguing my case. I frankly dont give a flying fuck what people think about my attitude; I never asked to be idolized or asked for help. I dont care what you think about abilities to argue in a civil way either. Fact is, I know I'm right, and everyone else with insight agree with me and have known that FbN is shit for a long time. There's a reason why there's 0 good feral druids posting in that FbN thread.

And stop giving me that crap about how I should behave. I dont owe you anything. Im just another idiot on the internet, and Im very much allowed to think and act like I see fit. Because Im a public figure people expect me to act civil and be nice and humble all the time. Fuck that. Find another player to idolize for all I care; I would welcome the peace and quiet.

I don't mind you, I just belive that most people 'arguging' against you are trying to convince others of why you got banned.

I'm sure you're aware of why, it wasn't becuse you were right or wrong, but any intelligent discussion you'll encounter in life, won't accept "I know I'm right, trust me" as proof.

[lumpheed]

did u just compare evoultion a new idea which requires as much belief as religion to medicine something thats been around for hundreds of thousands of years. dumbass

Dude, there is masses of proof that evolution occurs. Perhaps not masses of proof that humans evolved from some kind of ape like creature, but anyone not blinded by religion and capable of rational thought must agree that evolutionary processes do occur exactly as Darwin suggested. It does not take a huge leap of imagination to see how this relates to the development of homo sapiens. Especially when taken in congunction with the fossil record. Unless you believe that all fossils are fakes and that the earth is, as calculated from the bible, only 7000 years old.

[Deleted]

I'm very much aware of why I got banned. I dont give enough of a fuck about theorycrafting to figure out new simulations. I just point out mistakes and flaws when I see them. I knew that would eventually get me banned, as I also said a while ago.

That's part of why I hate EJ. You can get banned for being right. I also realise thats why a lot of people love their forums; thats fine. Discussions in a civil way are rare online, I can see why people are attracted to that. It's just not my cup of tea.

[telemain]

Let me explain my situation to you: I get hundreds of whispers every day from people asking for advise about DPS, gearing, rotations and whatnot. About half of these mentioned FbN and argued against my advice because of what they read in the FbN thread. There's a reason I haven't posted on EJ before that FbN thread. I knew their rules were to strict for me to follow. I got fed up with people arguing against me based on FbN's wrong conclusions, so I posted. Shame I got banned before I was finished arguing my case. I frankly dont give a flying fuck what people think about my attitude; I never asked to be idolized or asked for help. I dont care what you think about abilities to argue in a civil way either. Fact is, I know I'm right, and everyone else with insight agree with me and have known that FbN is shit for a long time. There's a reason why there's 0 good feral druids posting in that FbN thread.

And stop giving me that crap about how I should behave. I dont owe you anything. Im just another idiot on the internet, and Im very much allowed to think and act like I see fit. Because Im a public figure people expect me to act civil and be nice and humble all the time. Fuck that. Find another player to idolize for all I care; I would welcome the peace and quiet.

I love the bolded part. I am not being sarcastic.

I think it's a shame that the thread didn't have a more productive debate. To be clear, I neither know nor care who you are. All I know about you was from this thread and the parts of the FbN thread I bothered to read. I think it is a shame that if you have such an issue with the theorycrafting and crap that it couldn't be explained better so there could be more players taking advantage. But that isn't your responsibility.

My only issue is saying that EJ as a whole is shit because of that one thread. There is a hell of a lot more to that site than just some stupid feral thread. There are 9 other classes with excellent information provided. It's not always 100% correct, at times it's been flat out wrong, but it does provide a wonderful source of information that I haven't seen made available in any other community. I think it deserves some credit for providing a place that people like the OP can go to and learn at the very least the basics of their class.

Once again though, I do love the point you make in your final post.

[arantes]

You can get banned for being right.

I'm going to get this through in this post without my usual long paragraphs I hope:

You did not get banned for being right. Get over it. You got banned for not following rules, that's all, no big deal but don't misrepresent stuff. It might be correct to say you can get banned despite being right. However this is a big and very important distinction that is essentially what this thread has been about.

[arantes]

Let me explain my situation to you: I get hundreds of whispers every day from people asking for advise about DPS, gearing, rotations and whatnot. About half of these mentioned FbN and argued against my advice because of what they read in the FbN thread. There's a reason I haven't posted on EJ before that FbN thread. I knew their rules were to strict for me to follow. I got fed up with people arguing against me based on FbN's wrong conclusions, so I posted. Shame I got banned before I was finished arguing my case. I frankly dont give a flying fuck what people think about my attitude; I never asked to be idolized or asked for help. I dont care what you think about abilities to argue in a civil way either. Fact is, I know I'm right, and everyone else with insight agree with me and have known that FbN is shit for a long time. There's a reason why there's 0 good feral druids posting in that FbN thread.

And stop giving me that crap about how I should behave. I dont owe you anything. Im just another idiot on the internet, and Im very much allowed to think and act like I see fit. Because Im a public figure people expect me to act civil and be nice and humble all the time. Fuck that. Find another player to idolize for all I care; I would welcome the peace and quiet.

I for one think you have every right to act how you do. It's your life, do with it as you please. The only problem is the people (including you in some posts) who seem surprised that you were treated the way you were.

I for one wouldn't like it if people whispered me every day, and I commend you for taking the issue up with EJ. However you handled it incorrectly. In the end, in the big scheme of things it's no big fucking deal, you got banned form a site you don't like because you don't think/talk/act like a theorycrafter, who fucking cares?

As far as all that goes you and I would actually be in agreement. However there is the issue of people spreading misinformation in this thread and saying stupid things like "EJ supresses people who disagree"/ This, essentially is what I take issue with. They welcome opinions within a certain framework. Period. That's all. Anyone who thinks otherwise or takes a ban personally is wrong.

In the end you and I might not agree because you were the one on the receiving end of the ban and I'm a spectator looking in from the outside, but I do find the values EJ places on following rules and follwoing a method important enough to take issue with some of the people here who have defended you (even though you weren't the topic of the thread in the first place, someone just brought you up as an example) and think that they have to attack EJ when doing so. They're wrong in their attacks and understanding of things for the most part. You are right in your understanding of Feral DPS and EJ is right in their methods. It just so happens your methods weren't compatible with theirs, that's all, it doesn't amount to suppressing information or any amount of other nonsense people here have said.

I would encourage you not to worry about some thread where random dude pulled you up as a random example of some issue they have with EJ. Once that happens you're stuck with being occasionally mentioned as part of the argument. In the end it's no big deal and certainly can't be taken personally since I'm guessing noone here knows you (I certianly don't) personally.

[Deleted]

I'm very much aware of why I got banned. I dont give enough of a fuck about theorycrafting to figure out new simulations. I just point out mistakes and flaws when I see them. I knew that would eventually get me banned, as I also said a while ago.

That's part of why I hate EJ. You can get banned for being right. I also realise thats why a lot of people love their forums; thats fine. Discussions in a civil way are rare online, I can see why people are attracted to that. It's just not my cup of tea.

Be less of a self absorbed cockhead please, you weren't banned for being right, you were banned becuse they didn't accept your argument without proof, which is entirely acceptable considering the nature of that forum.

[Frank7734]

Because Im a public figure people expect me to act civil and be nice and humble all the time.

Hahaha, no. You're definitely not a public figure. Few people probably even know what you look like-- I didn't even know who you were, I recognized the guild name because it was posted on MMO Champ recently.
Your guild is known by the few over-obsessed WoW player who take the time to regularly visit MMO Champion and the people who play on your server, that's it. This is just more of the superiority complex shit. How attitudes like this manifest in WoW players is beyond me-- You're spending your evenings alone at home on a computer playing a video game like it's a job; it's like acting as though you're the top dog because you're the coolest kid on the short bus.

And nobody expects you to act that way because of any other reason than you're a human being-- Who knew humans were expected to act with decency? LOLNOTME

[arantes]

I think it's a shame that the thread didn't have a more productive debate. To be clear, I neither know nor care who you are. All I know about you was from this thread and the parts of the FbN thread I bothered to read. I think it is a shame that if you have such an issue with the theorycrafting and crap that it couldn't be explained better so there could be more players taking advantage. But that isn't your responsibility.

I'm going to take slight issue with this and try to get somethign out of it:

If you choose to go to a private site to make your case or to argue anything you do have somethign of a responsibility - that is to follow that sites rules. There is no right of free speech on the internets and certainly not on EJ. Now, it's sort of a moot issue here because 1. Tun was banned and 2. Tun doesn't care he was banned. That's fine, but I think it's worth pointing out that when you go to someone else's place you do have a responsibilty to accept their rules.

[Deleted]

Hahaha, no. You're definitely not a public figure. Few people probably even know what you look like-- I didn't even know who you were, I recognized the guild name because it was posted on MMO Champ recently.
Your guild is known by the few over-obsessed WoW player who take the time to regularly visit MMO Champion and the people who play on your server, that's it. This is just more of the superiority complex shit. How attitudes like this manifest in WoW players is beyond me-- You're spending your evenings alone at home on a computer playing a video game like it's a job; it's like acting as though you're the top dog because you're the coolest kid on the short bus.

And nobody expects you to act that way because of any other reason than you're a human being-- Who knew humans were expected to act with decency? LOLNOTME

Stop underestimating how well watched the 'PvE race' of WoW actually is, alot of people know who Ensidia are, maybe fewer regarding Tun in 'person', but Ensidia and Nihilum/SKgaming as a guild are well known, don't deny that.

Oh and chill with the stereotypes you internet toughguy you.

[darkenrahl]

And stop giving me that crap about how I should behave. I dont owe you anything. Im just another idiot on the internet, and Im very much allowed to think and act like I see fit. Because Im a public figure people expect me to act civil and be nice and humble all the time. Fuck that. Find another player to idolize for all I care; I would welcome the peace and quiet.

you sir just made my day :L

on the other hand i sort of agree about ej.. it's a decent place with solid math and all, but the people.....
sadly, as happens in real, at times become too fed with themselves, and enforce rules too strictly..
that's pretty much my only complaint about EJ, for the rest i think that it serves as a good stepping stone to improve your playstyle, although generally those improvements don't come from the main post "official thread X" (as it's usually a math-like post stating DO x, DO y, WEAR z) but from the comments of other users :P

[arantes]

Hahaha, no. You're definitely not a public figure. Few people probably even know what you look like-- I didn't even know who you were, I recognized the guild name because it was posted on MMO Champ recently.
Your guild is known by the few over-obsessed WoW player who take the time to regularly visit MMO Champion and the people who play on your server, that's it.

And nobody expects you to act that way because of any other reason than you're a human being-- Who knew humans were expected to act with decency? LOLNOTME

Actually you don't have to know what someone looks like for them to be a public figure and in a world where internet "fame" exists you can certainly make an argument that this or that person is more of a public figure than your average MMO player (now whether that matters in court depends on what the test for public figure is, that doesn't matter here though).

I personally agree with you on your final point though but it's moot in the sense that Tun has already dealt with the consequences of his actions (he acted one way and got banned for it). It's certainly not an unusual situation.

[arantes]

On my forum (if i had one), you could be an idiot and a douche, but I wouldnt ban you if you were right. EJ has their rules, and even if youre right about something you can get banned for not following them; so I dislike EJ.

I can live with this as it doesn't misrepresent anything and still makes your feelings clear.

[Deleted]

On my forum (if i had one), you could be an idiot and a douche, but I wouldnt ban you if you were right. EJ has their rules, and even if youre right about something you can get banned for not following them; so I dislike EJ.

[Frank7734]

Dude, there is masses of proof that evolution occurs. Perhaps not masses of proof that humans evolved from some kind of ape like creature, but anyone not blinded by religion and capable of rational thought must agree that evolutionary processes do occur exactly as Darwin suggested. It does not take a huge leap of imagination to see how this relates to the development of homo sapiens. Especially when taken in congunction with the fossil record. Unless you believe that all fossils are fakes and that the earth is, as calculated from the bible, only 7000 years old.

And you're sitting there making arguments toward what the bible says without having done any research on the actual time frame the bible gives. I love the arrogance here where you have the audacity to criticize others for ignorance while you're sitting there quoting numbers that do not originate with the bible. No time frame is given for the creation of the earth as the term "day" was not meant literally and you'd have to be pretty silly to think by the way the days were organized that it was meant as literal 24 hour periods of time. Each day could have been thousands, millions, perhaps billions of years long, no one knows and quite frankly is it a pressing matter for humankind?

[Deleted]

Thank you for verifying that what I think is OK in your book.

Just remember, you're not an authority. I never gave a shit about your opinion and, frankly, your replies are starting to piss me off quite badly. I dont give a shit what you think is OK.

[Derlan]

Thank you for verifying that what I think is OK in your book.

Just remember, you're not an authority. I never gave a shit about your opinion and, frankly, your replies are starting to piss me off quite badly. I dont give a shit what you think is OK.

And thats Ok.

[arantes]

Thank you for verifying that what I think is OK in your book.

Just remember, you're not an authority. I never gave a shit about your opinion and, frankly, your replies are starting to piss me off quite badly. I dont give a shit what you think is OK.

This post misses the point so thoroughly it's funny. I know all the above. I don't think you need my approval. Again you took something personally that should not be taken personally. I don't care what you think, this discussion is far more general than that.

[arantes]

And you're sitting there making arguments toward what the bible says without having done any research on the actual time frame the bible gives. I love the arrogance here where you have the audacity to criticize others for ignorance while you're sitting there quoting numbers that do not originate with the bible. No time frame is given for the creation of the earth as the term "day" was not meant literally and you'd have to be pretty silly to think by the way the days were organized that it was meant as literal 24 hour periods of time. Each day could have been thousands, millions, perhaps billions of years long, no one knows and quite frankly is it a pressing matter for humankind?

It's a fair assumption to make based on the discussion. Most of the people (at least most of the vocal ones) who deny evolution take a literal interpretation of the bible. If you happen to 1. Deny evolution and 2. Not believe in a literal interpretation of the bible (or at least be pointing out that some people do that) then you're essentially introducing an uncommon viewpoint to an established "debate", at least sufficiently uncommon that you should not assume that the poster you replied to would use the same argument in a debate with that position.