Poll: Can a lack of addons be compensated by having more skill?

[Lunataria]

Simple question in the topic.

the way I see it, All addons can be dealt without IF you have more skill (note, I'm not talking about any addons that simply reskin, those are fine).

I will say, I have not used all addons ever, but with enough skill, addons are not needed to perform decently. sure in some rare situations, that ammount of skill may be very rare, but it still exists.

Please vote in the poll and discuss your choice below.

[kassy]

I'm sure there's plenty of these topics around tho, most recent one I saw was called something like "make the true hard modes to do content without addons" or something similar.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/raids-du...ing-no-addons/

[Lunataria]

your poll doesn't work.
I'm sure there's plenty of these topics around tho, most recent one I saw was called something like "make the true hard modes to do content without addons" or something similar.

poll is in now.

also, that thread isn't really talking as much about this specific thing. I'm wanting to try and spark insightful conversation outside of the QQ-fest of specific dungeons.

[Vecara]

I guess with enough skill you can compensate without addons, but wouldnt it be much easier to have that cushion there if you forget when an important event during a boss fight happens?

[Mythrendos]

No. You can't play WoW without add-ons because the game gets too complicated.


But in all seriousness, I think it comes down to yes anyone can play without addons, but a good majority of the WoW population I'd bet couldn't cope without some sort of mod telling them where to run or to interrupt that cast. If it's not taking up half your screen or making noises at you, I guarantee people wouldn't know to do anything. Now of course this isn't speaking for the entire WOW community, because I know I've seen/read a ton of post with SS's of their UI's. And they have the bare minimum of raiding Add-ons. I for one, use quite a few add-ons, but mostly are just for show and to spice up my UI from the boring Blizz Default.

[kassy]

in the end skill conquers addons, alltho I'm not quite sure I'd call it skill in the same way. a lot of people tunnelvisioning toc are skilled people who just cba to wake up unless dbm plays a sound because it's not needed.but I'm sure they'd manage ok without addons, all it would take is proper focus instead of mindless tunnelvision, as in actually looking at your screen 100% of the time instead of 50% like now :P

[Fornaw]

Some things cannot be skilled through, humans have measurable reaction time, eyes cannot travel all over the screen and take in all info at once, etc. Maybe you don't think your job requires you to be simultaneously aware of the buffs/debuffs on you, buffs/debuffs on your target, and your cooldowns all at once, but there is someone out there who plays your spec/role and maintains that kind of awareness, thus doing your job better.

Are there people who are so bad they cannot move out of a flame wall without an addon?

Sure, they're bad and a player with a modicum of skill will be able to do as well as them without addons.

Do all the really skilled players use addons to increase their situational awareness?

Yep, it should go without saying that the really skilled spend significant amounts of time researching good addons and practicing to maximize their awareness.

Skill + Effort=best players.

[Drizel]

It's more like... A lack of addons can be compensated by being stubborn and purposely making your life harder. I could heal without grid/clique, but why? It shows you people's health and all of the buffs you want to see in the most effective way, it shows you the icon of w/e debuff they have on them, or if something is about to happen to them. At the same time, I could do without timers telling me when the next ability is coming up, but that's going to gimp myself and prevent me from precasting to mitigate it, or pre-shielding the entire raid. I can do without timers telling me when the next boss is spawning. I could do without RA telling me which of my druids have their BR up, which of my shamans have Ankh's up, how my dps died. Question is why?

Skill to me is the ability to maximize your output. Maximizing it through addons and knowledge of fights/class. You can compete without them, but you're gimping yourself and thus others that play with you. They are not needed to be good, but I promise people with mods and the same skill level will always be a better player then you. Show me one serious player in a good guild that plays without UI modifications or addons that is competetive and i'll buy the whole, "skill over addons" thing.

[Tigercat]

A lack of addons on the screen can be compensated for by having a stopwatch sitting next to your monitor and investing most of your attention into making sure you use it properly.

Beyond that, no. The human brain can only handle so many individual threads of information at once and still be acutely aware of their progress(again, thinking timers here.)

This is pretty much the same as the clickers vs keybind debate. It doesn't matter how good you think you are at doing something if your entire approach is wrong. Someone else will get it right and outperform you by a large degree.

[Marakara]

Of course. But why bother?

[Lunataria]

The human brain can only handle so many individual threads of information at once and still be acutely aware of their progress(again, thinking timers here.)

here is a point I would like to take people up on.
yeah, the brain can only process so much, but remember the first time you played tetris? it was confusing a HELL and each time you've played ever since, you've gotten farther and better about learning patterns of how pieces fit together in odd ways.
WoW (or any game) works that way. Over time, you'll start doing things you should do with little to no thought going into them. after doing a boss enough, you'll be able to know how long it takes for it to get through a certain timer. people with rotations would be able to tell how many rotations per ability or something to that effect. also a lot of these types of abilities give time to respond, even after they go off. So these things can eventually become second nature, like the guards with the cue-tip hats in england (no hate) have internal timing from repetition of practice to go through all their drills. nothing is stopping gamers from doing the same thing.

I guess now that I think about it, it's almost down to muscle memory vs. twitch response from the brain...

[Craz]

You can do most of the game without any addons. However when you are doing say firefighter / yogg +0. You won't be able to do those nearly as easily without addons. ToC is a joke, and your raid doesn't need a single addon to clear that. Remember vent is pretty much as important as addons. For example a healer gets CC'd, or you need to do a cooldown rotation on tanks such as non-zerg 3 drake pre-ulduar gear.

[greenburstexplorer]

Most people who have addons like DBM have them set to be so spammy they ignore them anyway. I went through most of ulduar and cleared yogg pre-nerf without having DBM active. As a dpser about the only addon I could not raid without is Omen. I would literally have no clue when death is about to strike me down, even if I did wait 5-10 seconds after every pull. I can't speak for healers or raidleaders though...

[Gron]

I think some fights need the addons.
Otherwise please define skill?

Is the skill like someone counting down 1 minute from engagement of boss to be able and in range for interrupting a spellcast?
Is that something that would make game harder or more frustrating without addon?

Is that really skill?

Most abilities wipe raid.
In case there were no addons, I'd love bossess who could start to build up their evil abilities so your raid could start downhill, and you'd need to take certain actions to prevent it. I mean not exactly timed like 1 minute from start, but a series of events, that would require skill, focus to stop. Then yes, addons would not be needed, and killing a boss could be more skill based.

[asparagus]

AddOns is just another way to receive information faster; without having to stare at the top and/or bottom corners of your screen (because that's where the default interface puts them)

It's not really about skill.

[krasgoth]

Definate yes.

I've always played without addons except for barebones things like recount and omen. Watching my girlfriend's screen while she uses DBM is hilarious, because they idiot proof things so much you HAVE to be accountable if you fail.

Having your screen flash "YOU ARE STANDING IN A BURNING EMBER! MOVE!" when koralon spits a flame at you or "ALGALON IS CASTING BIG BANG! GO INTO A BLACK HOLE!" is so funny to watch, which makes me wonder how people who *have* these mods and *don't* do the things the mod says actually play the game.

[Powerogue]

tsk, what are these addons of which you speak?

been running things fine, if anything i think it's easier to raid without 20 addons cluttering your screen.

i don't need to have a huge blaring addon telling me to move out of deep breath if my screen is clear enough i can look up and see onyxia, and move accordingly.

plusses of addons:
-nothing! ;D

negatives of addons:
-latency
-issues every single patch
-cluttered screen

was doing fine in 25 man TOC, and looking foreward to getting into the guild run of ICC soon.

[Flaks]

Some things cannot be skilled through, humans have measurable reaction time, eyes cannot travel all over the screen and take in all info at once, etc. Maybe you don't think your job requires you to be simultaneously aware of the buffs/debuffs on you, buffs/debuffs on your target, and your cooldowns all at once, but there is someone out there who plays your spec/role and maintains that kind of awareness, thus doing your job better.

Are there people who are so bad they cannot move out of a flame wall without an addon?

Sure, they're bad and a player with a modicum of skill will be able to do as well as them without addons.

Do all the really skilled players use addons to increase their situational awareness?

Yep, it should go without saying that the really skilled spend significant amounts of time researching good addons and practicing to maximize their awareness.

Skill + Effort=best players.

This.

Notice how most of the people that said DON'T use addons (thus impying they're more skilled).

I don't use addons, I'm situationally aware and stack sunders without being told, move out of the void zone, interrupt a deadly cast etc. Does this make me more skilled than someone who's doing the same thing but has help from addons? No way, if anything the person doing his job probably NEVER misses an interrupt, barely stands in the void zone for more than a milisecond and probably does it all on hardmode too (I don't).

[fapjackmasta]

i dont use any addons to raid. i used questhelper (well not anymore with patch 3.3 lul) and gatherer for everyday tasks. i do just fine as long as i know the fight. ive pulled top dps in raids before and ive even been the last man standing when a boss goes down (idk if those are huge accomplishments but i felt proud when they happened).

so my vote is a definite YES. id much rather have a smart raider who knows what he/she is doing than an idiot with 20 addons telling him what to do

[sophos1]

If you aren't using at the very least a unit frames addon, you are only hurting yourself. Being able to see your health bar in your peripheral vision while looking at your buttons or in the middle of the screen is practically essential.

I also organize my buttons in a meaningful way, which only boosts my performance as well. I no longer have to hunt for buttons or worry about being on the wrong page because I had shift held down while zooming the camera.

I cant fucking keep track of sunder, demo shout, battle shout, all my cooldowns on the bottom of the screen, while trying to watch my health bar at the top left of the screen, and trying to watch for those short trinket-buffs on the to right side of the screen, then also watch the shit storm of name tags, numbers, void zones, hurricanes, explosions all at the same time, so I have mods that deal with that shit. Honestly if you think that you can keep track of all of that without some kind of control and expect to perform well you're an idiot and you're only hurting yourself.