Is it fair? Please ask yourselves...

[haferflocken]

Edit: in order to unterstand this post, you MUST read my second post somewhere below here..

Today I saw someone organizing a raid group for Toravon 25 and I would somehow not get invited to the raid group. I'm a ret paladin and the other paladin is also a ret paladin, as I have gotton to know through my buddy's, who have been invited without a hitch. The ret paladin would just answer my invite request rather blutly stating that I was not needed for whatever reasons he invented (too many paladins)... because he surely was inviting other damage dealers. I was rather baffled as to how shameful some people can be by just opening a raid group and inviting people to their liking to gain a personal advantage. The other people in the raid surely will have to share their loot according to the same specs of some of their class colleagues. But this paladin is so egocentric that he does not want to share his loot and garanties it by inviting other specs accordingly. I think this is very unfair. I believe this is very anti-social behaviour. Maybe the raidleader has a right to act this way, but that is not the question.

What's your opinion?

This is not about the fact I did not get invited in this particular instance, but about the broader principle behind it. Ignore my whining for a moment and think about whether it's OK for a raidleader to act this way.

PS. i'm posting it into the General forum as it does not directly have to do with Dungeons and Raids.

[Deleted]

Loot whores are annoyig indeed...

[Vonlego]

Nothing wrong with it, they put the group together. If you're not ok with it, lead your own differently.

A common practice for my guild is to put together a group on Tuesday of all those who want to come, then fill in with folks who won't take our loot. No mages and warriors online? Fine pug as many as want in. Do we have some of every class? Cool we probably have 18+ people anyways and don't need to pug.

[Mongoose19]

It's his raid so he can do whatever he wants, stop crying about it and make your own raid!

[Taun]

Today I saw someone organizing a raid group for Toravon 25 and I would somehow not get invited to the raid group. I'm a ret paladin and the other paladin is also a ret paladin, as I have gotton to know through my buddy's, who have been invited without a hitch. The ret paladin would just answer my invite request rather blutly stating that I was not needed for whatever reasons he invented (too many paladins)... because he surely was inviting other damage dealers. I was rather baffled as to how shameful some people can be by just opening a raid group and inviting people to their liking to gain a personal advantage. The other people in the raid surely will have to share their loot according to the same specs of some of their class colleagues. But this paladin is so egocentric that he does not want to share his loot and garanties it by inviting other specs accordingly. I think this is very unfair. I believe this is very anti-social behaviour. Maybe the raidleader has a right to act this way, but that is not the question.

What's your opinion?

This is not about the fact I did not get invited in this particular instance, but about the broader principle behind it. Ignore my whining for a moment and think about whether it's OK for a raidleader to act this way.

PS. i'm posting it into the General forum as it does not directly have to do with Dungeons and Raids.

If you feel that way make your own raid, he can do whatever he wants when he forms it. If your friends didn't like why did they stay in the raid?

[Miled995]

Yea, its rather universal. Every server has people like this. I don't understand how you can expect to make a 25 man without getting more of your class/spec.

[Rellekk]

Its their raid, they are building it, they can invite/not invite whoever they want.

Start your own raid to avoid this problem

[Maggeddon]

Well, whenever im making a group I always seems to have a slight bias away from my class and spec combo. Thats not to say that I totally exclude them, but if it comes down to taking a dps dk (my spec) and say a rogue or priest, I would end up taking the other class. Having said that, there will usually be another dps DK in the raid (try keeping them out lol).

I play this game to get gear, as well as having fun. Getting gear allows me to progress further and have more enjoyment from the game, and acts as a reward for my efforts, although it is not a be all and an end all. Eveen if I get no gear from a raid, I can still find enjoyment from doing it.

What the raid leader did was certainly rude, and lacked, for want of a better word, sportsmanship, but many people will exhibit the same sort of behaviour, although most will not show it to the same extreme degree.

[Asur]

If you put forth the effort to make a group, you can make the group however you want.

[Harlequinn]

If he made the raid he has every right to do whatever the fuck he wants with the loot. If I didn't do VoA with my guild I would do the same damn thing. Loot competition will always exist, if you have enough time to type out a QQ message on MMO Champion you have enough time to make your own damn raid.

PS QQ-less

[Iosif]

Well, whenever im making a group I always seems to have a slight bias away from my class and spec combo. Thats not to say that I totally exclude them, but if it comes down to taking a dps dk (my spec) and say a rogue or priest, I would end up taking the other class. Having said that, there will usually be another dps DK in the raid (try keeping them out lol).

I play this game to get gear, as well as having fun. Getting gear allows me to progress further and have more enjoyment from the game, and acts as a reward for my efforts, although it is not a be all and an end all. Eveen if I get no gear from a raid, I can still find enjoyment from doing it.

What the raid leader did was certainly rude, and lacked, for want of a better word, sportsmanship, but many people will exhibit the same sort of behaviour, although most will not show it to the same extreme degree.

in my experiance this is true of MOST raid leaders.

[Lolretadin]

I dont mean to be rude but you are one of the reasons people always say we Rets QQ all the time. Yes, it may seem unfair but if you dont like it make a group for yourself. Keep in mind nearly every Ret Paladin out there decided to reroll in 3.0 to be faceroll and is greedy as hell.

[Firience]

if a person takes his/hers time to put together a 25 man raid, then why shouldn't they have some out of it? instead of ppl just leaning back and gets invited while other ppl starts to struggle to get the last ppl, well make your own, and if you cba, then be glad someone puts it together for you, and let them have that little ekstra for doing it.

I myself hate to make raids, so I love the fact that someone does it for me, but well I am a prot warrior and rarely have to chare my loot anyway so np for me.

[rockadin]

From personal experience:

It always seems that the people with the same (or even better) gear as you, doing at least 2k dps less and always wins the roll on significant upgrades.

[haferflocken]

In fact I'm the raidleader mentioned in the opening post. Maybe you'll see it from a different perspective as you have read through this text from another perspective other than myself.

In fact I was put on ignore for my behaviour, that is why I had my doubts. Thank you for your honest opinions.

In fact raidleaders who lock items are exactly the same. Some of you should think about it. And think about why some people whould rather just leave the work of opening a raid group to others. That alone justifies this behaviour.

I don't whine about other people locking things, I think it is OK, since if I don't need the item, I join, if I do need the item, I dont't. I'm fine with that. I think it is OK to expect certain standards from other people, if I too fulfill these standards.

That said take this whole topic with a grain of salt when it comes to the guild. I'm not an asshole and you will have to be rational whenever possible.

[kailtas]

When i put together Voa i make some standard rules

1. in 25 man, No more than 3 of any class unless it takes to long
2. in 10 man, no more than 2 of any class unless it takes to long

That way its more fair than having 5 paladins, 1 mage, 3 rouges and 1 shaman.

Dont you agree?

[mindmage]

I dont mean to be rude but you are one of the reasons people always say we Rets QQ all the time. Yes, it may seem unfair but if you dont like it make a group for yourself. Keep in mind nearly every Ret Paladin out there decided to reroll in 3.0 to be faceroll and is greedy as hell.

Hey! I take offence! I have been ret since early TBC, and I'm as greedy! I want to get geared to perform better in guild raids. If it's my raid, I'm stacking the odds in my favour (as long as it can be done within reasonable timeframe). Don't like it - find a group that's led by a priest or something.

[Unholymoon]

You need to remember that VoA is a GEAR run, not an achievement or progression thing, it's something you do strictly for gear, so groups are formed with gear in mind. And loot isn't "shared" like you are making it out to be, it is taken. If a peice of ret loot drops, one ret pally takes it, its not split between the 2 or 3 ret pallies that may be in the group, if someone is making the group, they have every right to limit the classes so that its not 5 people rolling against each other (only 1 getting it, the other 4 being left with nothing). With classes/specs being limited there will be fewer people getting left with nothing if their gear drops.

When I run VoA I go by the same principle, with VoA10, I keep it to 1 of every class, with 25 its 2 of every class, with the exception of hybrids, as they are likely not all the same spec, so 3 of them may be possible if they are different specs.

[Melonberry]

If I ever did bother to pug it instead of running with my guild, I wouldn't even invite people who might roll on my offspec gear.

If I'm going to take the time to build a raid, I'm taking all the gear I can.

[thatguy181]

Lead your own raid or deal with it. Everyone is out to better number one first. You being there posed a possible threat to number one. It's a completely understandable situation. You can argue that one should expect 2 to 3 or their class in a 25 man raid, and I agree and understand that but the fact remains, when joining a pug, the raid leader makes the rules. If you don't like the rules, or the rules prohibit you from joining the pug to begin with, then make your own pug.