Hard modes should actually be hard

[Darkelementz]

I am seriously disappointed with the way Blizzard handled the hard mode options for Uld, ToC, and, so far, ICC. When I think of the word hard, I think of something that creates a complex problem that is different from the normal way of doing something. I consider, for example, multi-dimensional calculus is harder than geometry. The only hard mode that I see fit into what a hard mode should be is Sartharion 3-drake and Flame Leviathan. In that fight, if done the correct way and not zerg'd, changes the simple tank and spank fight into a precision, add managing, endurance, and dps race. Flame Leviathan also falls into the same category. Four tower FL is complex because it took the tank and spank (which can be 2 manned on 10 player, and 5 manned on 25 player) and added special abilities, adds, and AoEs.

The problem is that everything after that point just doesn't seem to qualify as hard mode. In all fairness, a hard mode shouldn't be as simple as "oh you triggered me, I'm suddenly 30% more health and damage." Most notably Hodir's hard mode. It isn't a hard mode at all, more a faster dps race. Freya is just a damage and health bonus with a small slew of extra spells. Mimiron is creative, but his fight remains exactly the same save for the fires. Vezax is just an endurance test, Yogg is basically the same as the rest together, and Algalon, the hard mode only, which was just a fight of high raid damage with a limited number of tries. The hard modes in TotGC are much the same, just increasing the damage inflicted and the health of the bosses. There are few changes to the fight mechanics which basically make it simple.

Real hard modes should be something completely different from the original fight. If we can look at Mimiron for a second I can describe what would be a fitting hard mode encounter. Push the button and the fires spawn. In his desperation he brings out a machine not part of his original encounter, and maybe you would have to fight Mimiron himself, instead of just his inventions. He could fly around on a jetpack while the raid deals with the fires and the other robots. As a result, the fight mechanics completely change, thus rendering the fight in a much more difficult way.

Basically, to sum up my argument here, Blizzard has to design hard modes as more than an alternate fight rather than an augmentation of the health and damage output of the bosses. In a way to keep people on their toes and learning the fights, it should be something more than just "you'll have to heal your tank a little more, maybe even bring a third healer." They need to remember that the normal modes are geared towards casual players, and the hard modes are designed for the dedicated, highly skilled and committed players in this MMO.

[Izhara]

I think you took a wrong turn at Alberquerque. This should be in WoW's General or Raids and Dungeons forum.

[myumsa]

Yeah because yogg+0 was a real pushover

[Darkelementz]

damnit i did, disregard this lol

also in regards to yogg+0, this encounter is exactly the same as normal yogg except you cant kill the adds at the end and cant replenish your sanity. The fight didn't change at all

[Deleted]

Words cannot begin to describe how much of a super cool story this is, bro.
Also, no.

[ElAmigo]

damnit i did, disregard this lol

also in regards to yogg+0, this encounter is exactly the same as normal yogg except you cant kill the adds at the end and cant replenish your sanity. The fight didn't change at all

wtf are you talking about if the fight didnt change at all from having 4 keepers than how come it wasnt downed until like 2 and half months after ulduar was released??

[Genesic]

Post your armory and maybe I'll read your post.

[Intoeternity]

damnit i did, disregard this lol

also in regards to yogg+0, this encounter is exactly the same as normal yogg except you cant kill the adds at the end and cant replenish your sanity. The fight didn't change at all

Nice to know you have not done yogg+0.

[Avalanch]

Post your armory and maybe I'll read your post.

[myumsa]

damnit i did, disregard this lol

also in regards to yogg+0, this encounter is exactly the same as normal yogg except you cant kill the adds at the end and cant replenish your sanity. The fight didn't change at all

LOL wow you sir are a idiot

[fabian]

damnit i did, disregard this lol

also in regards to yogg+0, this encounter is exactly the same as normal yogg except you cant kill the adds at the end and cant replenish your sanity. The fight didn't change at all

IT was not changed at all? So you mean changing your strategy so you can accommodate the lack of dps, sanity wells and ability to kill the mobs that spawn is not enough change?

You sir just failed horribly and lost all credibility.

[plaguedout]

WHAT? YOU DOWNED ARTHAS HEROIC MODE?!

[Yosef1015]

damnit i did, disregard this lol

also in regards to yogg+0, this encounter is exactly the same as normal yogg except you cant kill the adds at the end and cant replenish your sanity. The fight didn't change at all

But the first kill was still about a month after the release, so ya, i would say that it fits your definition of hard. Plus, I also disagree completely with your statement. Its not called new boss mechanic mode, its called hard mode because it takes the original boss and makes him harder.

[un_known]

only thing i'm wondering about, is this.... you're asking for them to be hard modes, but in fact the "hard modes" are supposed to be for the raiders/hardcore people that had the luxury of getting through all of the instances back in TBC and vanillia, all they've done is had a dumbed down version for casuals and people like that, if my memory serves me correctly when BT came out wasn't it cleared by Nihilum in 1 1/2 weeks? with most of the bosses dead in the first week? that's the same that i'm seeing with ICC hard modes right now, Paragon is currently WOTLK version of Nihilum, and i wouldn't be surprised if we see a heroic 25 man Lich king kill this reset.

[Magnett]

damnit i did, disregard this lol

also in regards to yogg+0, this encounter is exactly the same as normal yogg except you cant kill the adds at the end and cant replenish your sanity. The fight didn't change at all

It is exactly the same except for the things that are different.

[ElAmigo]

only thing i'm wondering about, is this.... you're asking for them to be hard modes, but in fact the "hard modes" are supposed to be for the raiders/hardcore people that had the luxury of getting through all of the instances back in TBC and vanillia, all they've done is had a dumbed down version for casuals and people like that, if my memory serves me correctly when BT came out wasn't it cleared by Nihilum in 1 1/2 weeks? with most of the bosses dead in the first week? that's the same that i'm seeing with ICC hard modes right now, Paragon is currently WOTLK version of Nihilum, and i wouldn't be surprised if we see a heroic 25 man Lich king kill this reset.

not going to happen, i promise you this

[un_known]

not going to happen, i promise you this

you never know weirder things have happened ^^

[Mr_Bojangles]

They're called hard modes, not puzzle modes. They are harder. Alot of them do in fact require different tactics even if the underlying mechanics are the same. Yogg+0 is nothing like yogg+1. Heroic anub requires so much more planning then regular anub. If your going to be saying hard modes are not a challange, you are going to have provide an armory link.

Also, Please see my sig http://kayin.pyoko.org/iwbtg/ if you want to see what hard is.

[Zlendorn]

I took the liberty of looking around and this guy has only posted in the hunter class forums so i would say its safe to assume hes a huntard and the only huntard with that name is this one

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Darkelementz

ENJOY! lol its a riot

[Gradywhite]

You realize that if Blizzard redesigned each fight to accomodate for your "different experience" hard modes, they would be essentially creating two encounters per boss... which would drastically reduce the quality of the encounters they put out, considering they would have to spend twice as long on each boss. In essence, we would be swapping the current setup for a system where we have half as many bosses to kill, and wouldn't appeal as much to the casuals, which Blizzard appears to be doing more of as of late...