gem sockets

[holyman]

i dont know if there is a topic like this so plz dont stone me.

i was just wondering if its bad if a holy pala gem to gain socket bonuses instead of full out int.useing 10int/5 mp5 gem for blue and 10int/12sp for red and 20int for yellow?

[Deleted]

it's not bad per sé, it depends on what kind of healer you are. FoL spam is more or less sockets, HL spam is full int and one nightmare tear.

[holyman]

i see u mentioned a FL spam healer, but i find it that the WoW community isnt so accepting on them, like as if its totaly wrong thing to do.the common thought is that Hpala should only spam HL and nothing els.

[Deleted]

while HL spam has high throughput, the problem is mainly that it simply is not sustainable on the longer fights. on some fights, you might not be able to use divine plea on CD, and as such can't keep up with the damage.

[Nillo]

Yellow/red => all int
Blue => usually 20 int or 10 int/5 mp5 if the bonus is really really worth it (+4 int or maybe +9 sp)

[Styria]

i see u mentioned a FL spam healer, but i find it that the WoW community isnt so accepting on them, like as if its totaly wrong thing to do.the common thought is that Hpala should only spam HL and nothing els.

For PvE, HL build is pretty much what's expected, FoL build/gemming is more for PvP.

[Raiss]

If you gem anything but int you are going to lose int. And you don't want to lose int unless the other option is far better, like a solace trinket.

[Firecrest]

while HL spam has high throughput, the problem is mainly that it simply is not sustainable on the longer fights. on some fights, you might not be able to use divine plea on CD, and as such can't keep up with the damage.

This is entirely untrue. I'm 11/12 HM ICC and working on HM LK. And I can guarantee you there is no fight in the game where I ever go, "Damn, I wish I had an FoL build" or even "Damn, I wish I had more mana". I definitely have gone, "Damn, I wish I managed my mana better there" though. HL Build is all about mana regen and mana management. A fight like Marrowgar could go on for 100 minutes for all I care. I'd never OOM. Same goes for half the fights in that place. Give me a few seconds on the boss every now and again or a couple moments of dowtime here and there and I'm set.

If you gem anything but int you are going to lose int. And you don't want to lose int unless the other option is far better, like a solace trinket.

See, this is the kind of thinking that gets Pallies who don't know better turned around. You want something that's "far better" if you're comparing apples to oranges. For instance Int to SP. It takes a sizable amount of SP to make it better than Int.

However, comparing Solace to other Int sources is not an apples to oranges comparison. It is apples to apples. Mana Regen to Mana Regen. We like Solace because it gives us more of the same thing that Int gives us. Mana Regen. Not because it gives us a significantly larger amount of some lesser stat.

It's a small difference in wording, but sizeable when you end up with people blindly following the "Int over all" mantra

[Caean]

considering DP restores 25% of total mana, the size of the mana pool we get from int is fairly important as well.

Of course the more regen you have and the better your mana management is, the less important the size of the pool becomes.

[Raiss]

See, this is the kind of thinking that gets Pallies who don't know better turned around. You want something that's "far better" if you're comparing apples to oranges. For instance Int to SP. It takes a sizable amount of SP to make it better than Int.

However, comparing Solace to other Int sources is not an apples to oranges comparison. It is apples to apples. Mana Regen to Mana Regen. We like Solace because it gives us more of the same thing that Int gives us. Mana Regen. Not because it gives us a significantly larger amount of some lesser stat.

It's a small difference in wording, but sizeable when you end up with people blindly following the "Int over all" mantra

Actually, no. Solace will give you more Spell Power and Mana regen, not only mana regen, like you said (Considering regular int trinkets, apart from the algalon one).

You shouldn't gem SP or mp5 just because you don't have any talent or raid buff that will scale that stat, while int will be always increased by kings and talents. Geming anything but this is a waste, unless there is a amazing socket bonus included. With ICC % buffs it might be possible to gem diferently and have sucess, but its only because you are working with an extraordinary situation, but I still think that working with int is the best.

About changing Int -> SP, that is very personal. I still think that a +30 int enchant will be more useful, while you think that the +63 will be better. I will stick with a extra mana regen and crit, while you think bigger heals and shields will do the work. I don't think neither of us can prove the other wrong. But if you must insist that everyone that does not agree with you are "blindly stacking int" (your words), I'm sorry.

[Firecrest]

If Solace had zero SP, it would still be BiS.

[holyman]

the reason i ask the gem socket question is cos i did a bit of maths, its not 100% right but its colse.if i change to gem sockets ill gain 107sp and 35mp5.but lose 1565 mana.my mp5 will then sit on 609mp5( i hav solanc).after the change ill end up with with just over 37k mana.i do use FoL a bit moro than i think others do and plus a pvp FoL libram im ending up with 12k FoL crits.thats also with a 15% buff.the 15% is one of the main reasons i thought about changing gems.cos it increass sp.

[Atreies]

Wow, I don't know where ppl even get the idea that FL builds are ok at any point.

FL pally is the laziest thing out there, you dont do the job ppl bring holy pally's in for, you nvr run out of mana and you can't sustain the tanks without help. I never see a FL pally use AM or DS. Just lazy. I have no respect for FL pallies and complain all the time on my server about them. Seems about half the holy pallies in pugs are FL and I just don't undersatnd where they learn to play that way. When I spam trade for a holy pally I have to specify a HL caster.

I was just in pug 10m icc on my druid and I out healed the pally on every fight in the 1st wing while 2 healing. This simply should not be. And damn it was alot harder than 2 healing with a Sham, or Disc priest.

You don't run out of mana casting HL for most of the fight. You just have to not be lazy to do it.

[Raiss]

If Solace had zero SP, it would still be BiS.

And your point is?

and the meteorite trinket would be way better than solace if it had 0 sp.

[Xentin]

And your point is?

and the meteorite trinket would be way better than solace if it had 0 sp.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, but meteorite trinket is already "way better" than solace even with its current SP.

[Raiss]

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, but meteorite trinket is already "way better" than solace even with its current SP.

I don't think so. Only if you can stack the trinket perfectly its mp5 will be highier than solace, and, if you use it too early it will be over mana regen, but, if take too long to use it, you are going to lose mana anyway. Raw MP5 from solaces will be always better, and the SP is highier. You might lose some crit, though.

[Dantrag]

so, as soon as this thread gone into trinket comparison... *points at signature*
Meteorite is 200-230mp5 + 30-40sp if you are lucky. Solace 258 is 144mp5+168sp. extra 90mp5(+7-10k mana per fight) > extra 120sp.
and of course this:

that's why we are gemming int. it is not Intellect so good, it is [intellect gem] so good, comparing to other gems.


ontopic:
you should take one sp/int gem, one mp5/int gem and [21int+mana restore] meta. green and orange gems must be placed in such places that they'll provide two socket bonuses (it's impossible only in some setups of 232 gear; thanks to blizz that 264/251 gear has some good sockets). each other gem should be 20int.

[Deleted]

dantrag, how does the SP/2% int meta compare to that meta?

[darthceltic]

if u use sp and 2% int meta u should be shot. that is all.

[holyman]

so what would be the best combo if i hav 20 gems slots plus meta? 19 int, int/regen meta and 1 +10 stat gem? forget about socket bonuses at all? how does the 21crit/2%mana compare?