Why do people hate ToC? (the raid)

[Doriath]

ToC is tied for my favorite raid of the expansion. Ulduar was awesome, toc was amazing and had no trash.

Really...No one likes trash.

And the 5 bosses were all creative. Easily some of the most unique ones of the expansion.

ToC was boring shit.Uld was interesting and actually difficult.
Your crazy for saying this.Even ICC is beter than TOC.fuck naxx and eoe are 1000x beter.
And true SOME people dont like trash,im a warrior tank and trash is some of the parts of a raid that is much more fun.And the only bosses that were unique was the beast of northrend.everything else we have pretty much done already,an eredar lord,some horde/alliance bitches to kill,some valks which are everywhere and anub..which is easily the only reason toc wasent totally shit.

[fapjackmasta]

lorewise and lookwise, probly the worst raid ever

combat wise, it was actually pretty fun i thought. while it did get repetitive, alot of the mechanics of the fights were pretty fun.

and its not like we arent used to seeing re-used bosses (lul kaeltheas)

[Myrrar]

The bosses were too easy...

Besides that put ugly gear, sitting in two rooms, and hardmodes that were pretty much a joke together it's been the worst raid in the game thus far. They added insanity for a "ultra hardmode". Having random champs set up for every guild, every week basically negated the excitement of a progression race. It was a fail all around.

[ZenX]

For the ones criticizing TotC, suck it up because you guys always whine whatever is the situation:

Players: Blizzard why isn't there any proper cc'ng in instances, QQ
Blizzard: We have designed a fight in TotC named Faction Champions that requires the use of accurate and precise crowd control.
Players: We don't want PvP fights, Blizz you suck QQ

Stop being anochronic and cut blizz some slack as they are trying to improve the game by trying new things, and it is what totc was.
For the ones indicating flaw in lore, read before writing as letting some wayward adventurers to strike at the king of the undead to raise them back as his soldiers would have been the aspects that screwed the lore. In my opinion, TotC should have been the attunement to ICC.

[Cactrot]

Your ignorance is excused because you said you played to pve and not pvp, but Faction champs is NOTHING like pvp or an arena team.

Your ignorance just isn't excused then. It is most definitely the PVE equivalent of pvp. No aggro table, multiple targets, requires CC. True, it's not just like PVP, but they couldn't implement that for a raid encounter. If you don't think that faction champs was an attempt to put in a pvp like fight in a PVE setting then you are either incredibly dense (and that's putting it nicely) or being intentionally contradictory.

[awake283]

I love trash, it's fun to AoE shit and see ridiculous numbers. Bosses are srs face time, but trash is sometimes a welcome break, and another chance for originality. Except the XT trash pre nerfs, f that. But there's awesome trash too! How about the Mimiron trash?

[Triston]

It was a slopped together mess of boring. It was too easy on normal and all the gear made you look like clones of anyone in your armor set. It never felt like a real instance.

[darkbshadow]

Reason I hated ToC hmm. 5 Bosses, Liked the no trash bit but, 5 bosses? For an entire raid tier we were given such a small amount of bosses to do. Bosses were very fun however I'm not a fan of 1 phase fights, expecally if you were going to clear it 3-4 times a week. Did like Beasts and Anub though.

What they needed to have done was release another 5-6 boss raid along side of it, like Eye and SSC was. If we had a bit more variety other then this 30-45min raid It wouldn't have been seen as so bad. I mean what happened to the raid in Gun'drak, That big temple so looked like it was going to be a raid Zone. I mean i missed not having that Troll themed Raid like we had gotten at 60 and 70.

[Vasz]

do u really think toc should have been a higher tier than yogg? i mean really? titans and old gods v a bunch of scrubs the argent crusade wrangled up

This ^^ and the fact that i ran that place 5 times a week on 3 characters for months. Oh and the one big room thing always annoyed the hell out of me. Its like Blizz was going backwards with their raid ideas.

[cetarari]

try togc 10

If normal ToC hadn't been such a snorefest we might have, but as it stands no one has the slightest inclination to go back there, for hardmodes or otherwise. The only fight I found at all enjoyable was the faction champions. Ramping up the difficulty would obviously make it more of a challenge, but it doesn't really change the feel and ambience, both of which I found lacking in ToC10

[Loraim]

simple..
no trash first of all.
seccond face roll bosses.
even on heroic version there was 4 faceroll bosses...
and only one hard boss..

so w/e u say is still a fail instance without real hardmodes but one boss..

[Cactrot]

If normal ToC hadn't been such a snorefest we might have, but as it stands no one has the slightest inclination to go back there, for hardmodes or otherwise. The only fight I found at all enjoyable was the faction champions. Ramping up the difficulty would obviously make it more of a challenge, but it doesn't really change the feel and ambience, both of which I found lacking in ToC10

Do your raid members also choose "easy" on any other game they buy and then complain that it wasn't hard enough? It's unfortunate that you can't go straight to hard mode, but such is life. Of course even now you should be overgeared for it anyway, and it may be too easy anyway, but if you're looking for a challenge the hardmodes are where it's at.

[GennGreymane]

This ^^ and the fact that i ran that place 5 times a week on 3 characters for months. Oh and the one big room thing always annoyed the hell out of me. Its like Blizz was going backwards with their raid ideas.

but then u would complain about this

"lol lore blizz were training to fight the lichking lol now we fight an old god instead rofl lore rofl rofl"

toc is fun but was poorly implemented. i enjoed it though its a fun raid to do when u have about an hour and feel like owning some bosses

[cetarari]

Do your raid members also choose "easy" on any other game they buy and then complain that it wasn't hard enough? It's unfortunate that you can't go straight to hard mode, but such is life. Of course even now you should be overgeared for it anyway, and it may be too easy anyway, but if you're looking for a challenge the hardmodes are where it's at.

And when we finally manage to unlock the ICC10 hardmode we'll most probably have a bash, it's just that most of us found ToC to be lacking. As I said before, making it harder only addresses some of the issues we had with it. The major one being it just wasn't all that much fun. As an example, we're only 8/12 in ICC10 at the moment, we only raid once a week so it's been slow going. It doesn't matter if we're farming the bosses we can do in our sleep or having a progression run to get another one down, it's fun. We are enjoying the content and having to do it all again on hardmodes (assuming we get there) will not be a chore. I'd rather pull teeth than go back to ToC (hardmodes or otherwise), I know it's a fairly personal opinion, but having steamrolled through it on normal and not really enjoying the fights that much killed off any inclination I had to try it on heroic. Had normal ToC been harder I'm not sure my opinion would change, sure it would've presented more of a challenge (as ToGC would) but the instance itself would still be 'meh'.

[The Painkiller]

Its taking PvP mechanics, which are not supposed to be applied to PvE, and making them the core mechanic of a PvE Boss fight. Just another reason i think that talents/skills/abilities should work one way in pvp and another in pve. Tired of getting nerfed becuase someone found a way to exploit an ability so that its OP in pvp.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, the mechanics of this fight is to CC the heavy hitters and focus down the important targets (healers). Last I checked this is what we do in raids.

Your ignorance just isn't excused then. It is most definitely the PVE equivalent of pvp. No aggro table, multiple targets, requires CC. True, it's not just like PVP, but they couldn't implement that for a raid encounter. If you don't think that faction champs was an attempt to put in a pvp like fight in a PVE setting then you are either incredibly dense (and that's putting it nicely) or being intentionally contradictory.

I agree faction champs was an attempt to put pvp into pve. An ATTEMPT, and a terrible one at that.

[Broxigar the Red]

Unique? I lol'd.

Yes unique, i dont see many of those boss mechanics back in any other boss unless you prove me wrong

[LaPifia]

Because there's no variety. Just two different rooms. When I kill a boss I want to get moving to next one. Take SSC as an example. That was a great raid instance. Big and many bosses.

[Scionni]

I'm almost certain I can speak on behalf of the WoW community here when I say I don't hate ToC. In fact, I appreciate how far ToC branches out from the style people have come to expect from other raids. It's a unique raid, with its singular room. Does that make it better than the other raids? Definitely not. On one hand, I can appreciate its unique layout, but on the other hand, I just prefer raids with a long, drawn out sequence (like Kara and Naxxramas and Ulduar) because those kinds of raids are able to tell a grand story. It's better to move from room to room, changing scenery all along the way, because you get a sense of progression. Story telling and progression-- I think that's what makes a raid my favorite.

Absolutely no discredit to ToC. I just prefer Kara/Naxx/Ulduar.

[Brickwall]

because it is a filler raid

[alinaya]

I enjoyed it, even when it consisted of farming the different difficulties (which was ToC 2-4 times a week, sometimes more if I brought an alt). Not having trash was definitely a positive, but I also enjoyed the way it was set up. There's not another raid like it