1. #1

    Reforging -- Fire mages Haste >> Crit/Mastery

    while i dont lpay my mage much in pve now as after clearing icc im totally bored. im looking towards the future. and fire mage will have some fun. i intend to go fire for catc and many of as are thinking the same(for pve). the new reforging vender will let you half any stat(not stam or int) for another stat that doesnt already exist on the item.

    as a fire mage i will most likely be halfing haste for crit, if it isnt there, or more likely mastery as it is so imba. wht you think, link below is TotalHalibut video on reforging:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAL6iP4tj8w

  2. #2
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Only thing I bothered reforging was the spirit on my frozen bonespike into haste. Mastery doesn't work yet, so there's no point adding it to gear, I had enough hit, and Frozen Bonespike already had crit (you can't reforge to add a stat that's already on the item).

    Interestingly, you can reforge trinkets that have a secondary stat as their passive. Both Muradin's and DFO can be reforged to change the crit/haste into something else.

  3. #3
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Some clarifications. None of the base stats can be reforged, not only stam and int. You cannot reforge a stat into another stat that is already on the item. So, say you have an item with crit and haste, and you want to get rid of some of the haste, you can not turn that into crit. You can only turn that into other secondary stats. For a fire mage, turning haste into mastery is probably going to be optimal, until a certain point, of course, you can't go too low on haste.

  4. #4
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    We'll see. I hear haste increases the DoT portion of Living Bomb, Pyroblast, Fireball, Ignite and the Mastery... so it's not clear whether mastery or haste will actually be better overall. And yes, I said Fireball. The DoT portion got a big bump and is now like 20% of the direct damage portion.

  5. #5
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX View Post
    We'll see. I hear haste increases the DoT portion of Living Bomb, Pyroblast, Fireball, Ignite and the Mastery... so it's not clear whether mastery or haste will actually be better overall. And yes, I said Fireball. The DoT portion got a big bump and is now like 20% of the direct damage portion.
    Wait? So now that fireball's DoT won't be glyphed away, we'll have 3 dots up 100% of the time (flashfire, living bomb, Fireball DoT) and another two that will be up on procs (Ignite, Pyroblast) making the fire talent that gives 10% haste when three DoTs are up extremely dull in my eyes. I was hoping we'd have to keep Pyro or Ignite up to benefit from it. Sadface.

  6. #6
    it's three targets affected by DoTs, not 3 DoTs on a target.

  7. #7
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    it's three targets affected by DoTs, not 3 DoTs on a target.
    Ooh. Well then, unless more fights will include adds in Cata than what we have now, that talent will be quite bad. :P

  8. #8
    The Patient
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    There was an a talent an old build that increased damage by 3%/dot or something like that, (besides the Pyromaniac talent)

    Idk, it's going to be one of those big theorycraft things about haste how much haste we need before reforging crit, how much minimum crit we need and all of those good things.

    I know frost will probably need 33.3% crit tops, before Shatter becomes useless for FoF procs.

  9. #9
    33.34% crit will be crit cap for ice lance and deep freeze for a frost mage, other than that i have a feeling mastery will trump haste for frost. crit and mastery may trump haste for arcane, which means i'll probably use 33/5/3 if i raid arcane (MoE is 2 points on beta for 30% mana back if i recall correctly).

  10. #10
    MoE on live currently gives me a 1.5% dps boost as arcane according to rawr

    even if we bump this up by 20% because of the mastery, and add arc barr, its still only a 2% gain for 2 points, which is allright I guess, but not amazing

  11. #11
    it's a mana regen mechanic for arcane which needs it now since mbarr no longer makes arcane missiles mana free. as of the last build, each crit of AM procced MoE, which means you can expect to see anywhere between 30% and 150% of the mana cost back. this also helps keep up mana adept longer at higher damage percentages.

  12. #12
    mbarr never made AM free, it was 0 mana cost baseline, and still is according to the tooltips

    also we should be looking at whats intended as their goal for arcane, not taking every change they do each build as fact of how its supposed to be, alot of things will be out of whack, and frankly, if you think AM with mana cost will make it to live, uhm, that would be retarded as that would require 60% crit just to get 90% mana back, there is no way in hell we'll have that much crit in cata

    obviously the same with the arc barr revert not proccing AM anymore, there is simply no reason whatsoever for them to make a change like that, back to 2 button spam? dont think so, it'll be changed

  13. #13
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Maybe at low gear levels the crit return from MoE might make crit trump haste, but I suspect that as the intellect on gear starts to ramp up, we'll see haste + mastery + mage armor be a more viable route.

    Shatter is still going to bone Frost's scalability. Once you hit the soft crit cap, crit and mastery will stop scaling well with each other, because two of the key sources of mastery damage (Ice Lance and Deep Freeze on FoF procs) no longer get any more benefit from crit. And since they rely heavily on instants (Brain Freeze procs, Ice Lance, Deep Freeze), haste also has a 50% soft cap (probably not reachable passively until Deathwing's raid tier, if ever). Mastery is probably their best scaling stat... but they're just boned overall.

    Fire is going to need well-rounded stats. Crit for Hot Streak and Ignite, Haste to improve all of the DoTs and base cast speed, and Mastery to improve DoT damage.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Harjkun View Post
    as a fire mage i will most likely be halfing haste for crit, if it isnt there, or more likely mastery as it is so imba.
    Nobody knows. Everything that anyone can possibly say on the subject right now is 100% useless speculation because we have no idea what the final numbers are going to be on any spells.

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